The MMA thread

[Halb]

If ya smell what the Rock is cooking.


Love how the UFC belt has drawn very heavily from what was the old NWA title-belt well, now a WWE belt.

[dirty boy]

nunpuncher said:

He doesn't have the Jits of Diaz and many others but he's no mug on the ground. His coach, John kav was one of the first black belts I ever rolled with and I have no doubt McGregor is well schooled in this area.

He simply underestimated Diaz stand up. Diaz was happy to keep it standing, looked less tired and hadn't been rocked. McGregor was blowing so shot a crap double then left his neck out passing to side. Easy sub for Diaz but failing a flash knock out from McGregor (the way he often finishes guys his weight) Diaz was winning the exchange standing.

I'd have said McGregor was ahead until 7.5 minutes when he got caught and as you say, started to run out of gas very quickly.

Some don't like Conor, but he's there to sell fights and he does that very well, hence he's gone from relative unknown to one of the most recognised fighters on the planet in a very short space of time.

Worth considering that Conor has 4m instagram followers...Deontay Wilder, the heavyweight boxing champ of the world (and American) only has 136k.

He's good for the UFC...very good, and the other fighters know that.

[FredClogs]

What no love for Meisha Tate? I thought she did an amazing job of showing how patience and technical know how in terms of the take down and razor sharp technique only comes with years and years of practice and trial and error. It's also interesting to watch how Holly chose to take the choke and go to sleep still throwing punches, not what I would have done, I'd have been tapping as soon as it was on - like Conor did.

Conor was beat on his feet, not on the ground, he was well gone (not exhausted but concussed) to allow himself to be full mounted and then gave up his back to protect his face from the elbows and hammer fists that were about to rain down, as soon as the choke was on he tapped - He gave up, I'm not sure he's half the fighter he thinks he is, he move beautifully, has a left hand that is formidable but there's more to this game than that.

[ben5575]

FredClogs said:

What no love for Meisha Tate? I thought she did an amazing job of showing how patience and technical know how in terms of the take down and razor sharp technique only comes with years and years of practice and trial and error. It's also interesting to watch how Holly chose to take the choke and go to sleep still throwing punches, not what I would have done, I'd have been tapping as soon as it was on - like Conor did.

Conor was beat on his feet, not on the ground, he was well gone (not exhausted but concussed) to allow himself to be full mounted and then gave up his back to protect his face from the elbows and hammer fists that were about to rain down, as soon as the choke was on he tapped - He gave up, I'm not sure he's half the fighter he thinks he is, he move beautifully, has a left hand that is formidable but there's more to this game than that.

Spot on.

[Don1]

Miesha - yes, she did well. Although I really dislike the UFC going 'next match - Rhonda' immediately. Not giving Holm a rematch chance - they just want the belt back on Rowsey asap.

I really hope Miesha beats her now.

Also, the potential of Tate having fake boobs.... if she does or doesn't, if she did they must be about 4lbs in weight? Therefore she has to come in 4lbs under her normal weight to make up for them. That's a fair amount...

[davey68]

I think Conor hit Nate clean several times particularly in the first round. At 145 and possibly 155 the opponent would have crumbled but I think Conor found out what it means to fight a naturally bigger, tougher person. When his main weapon didn't work he didn't seem to have a plan B. He does need to work on his ground game and defense otherwise opponents will zero in on his 'weakness'. I thought he might lose to a submission. I struggle to see why he took the fight, nothing really to gain from it but to keep the main event on and the fans/UFC happy. However it could be his Tyson v Douglas moment where the invincible bubble is now gone and others lose their fear of him. Interesting times ahead. I still really like the guy he is an amazing MMA fighter. Oh and Miesha has had a boob job, if you look at older photos of her she was never that busty. I like her and was torn who to support in her fight. I'm pleased for Miesha for all the years she has put in to MMA with no reward.

[RobGT81]

davey68 said:

I struggle to see why he took the fight, nothing really to gain from it but to keep the main event on and the fans/UFC happy.

I think he had over 1 million reasons to take the fight.

[scherzkeks]

davey68 said:

I think Conor hit Nate clean several times particularly in the first round. At 145 and possibly 155 the opponent would have crumbled but I think Conor found out what it means to fight a naturally bigger, tougher person. When his main weapon didn't work he didn't seem to have a plan B. He does need to work on his ground game and defense otherwise opponents will zero in on his 'weakness'. I thought he might lose to a submission. I struggle to see why he took the fight, nothing really to gain from it but to keep the main event on and the fans/UFC happy. However it could be his Tyson v Douglas moment where the invincible bubble is now gone and others lose their fear of him. d.

He's no Tyson though, and there has been a lot of hype. Mendes could potentially have put him away just like Diaz did.

I think there is truth to Nate's rather crude quote on Connor fighting "midgets." The cut to 145 is extreme, and in that division, he is very large. His fabled left hand didn't seem to inflict the kind of damage he thought it would. Appeared that he thought he'd go all in and get a quick KO due to his power. But, to a guy his size, perhaps his power isn't what he thinks it is.

Lastly, he has a few weaknesses. Vulnerable to submission, questionable stamina in this weight class, and he does actually get hit a lot when standing.

[RobGT81]

I think if Aldo had lasted more than a few seconds, he would have TKO'd McGregor. But he didn't, so doesn't really matter!

[Aphex]

The Tate fight was excellent, but Holly did tap, the ref just didn't see it.

Some interesting fights in the lead up but Mcgregor was puffed out, not used to someone being able to take his left and keep standing. I think the state of Diaz's face may have pushed him to go harder than he should have too. Good fight to watch though, I'm a fan of both guys

[davey68]

I do agree that Conor does get clipped a little too much. He has a good chin but needs to move his head more. I also agree he is no Tyson but his rise has been pretty meteoric in less than two years. I just think he should have delayed and waited until RDA was fit and fought for the LW belt or if he didnt want to be inactive defend at 145 against Frankie. I imagine Frankie will be hoping he is next in line for a shot at Conor, he has the movement, stamina and wrestling to cause problems. He is probably another 'midget' though. Still want to see him take on Aldo again, always loved Aldo although in later years he did seem to fight a bit carefully.

[Stu R]

Halb said:

If ya smell what the Rock is cooking.


Love how the UFC belt has drawn very heavily from what was the old NWA title-belt well, now a WWE belt.

Same dude made most of them until recently - Dave Millican. The UFC no longer use him but I think he's still doing WWE belts.

[shambolic]

Aphex said:

The Tate fight was excellent, but Holly did tap, the ref just didn't see it.

Some interesting fights in the lead up but Mcgregor was puffed out, not used to someone being able to take his left and keep standing. I think the state of Diaz's face may have pushed him to go harder than he should have too. Good fight to watch though, I'm a fan of both guys

Holly thing, I said that she tried to tap too on another site but she was starting to go out so tap might not have been noticed.
Brain starting to shut down due to blood shortage is not a nice feeling ( I've went to sleep before I tapped with a choke sunk in quick that I tried to grip fight out of ).
I'd rather tap early if you know it's sunk in tight and you can't escape.
Unlike Sage Northcut tapping from half guard with little pressure on and an escape to be had!

[FredClogs]

shambolic said:

Unlike Sage Northcut tapping from half guard with little pressure on and an escape to be had!

There's a Rener Gracie breakdown of the Sage Northcut tap on Youtube which contradicts what you're saying, he changed my opinion of what happened there. I've also heard Eddie Bravo come to Sage's defence. Not that I care much, it is what it is.

[anonymous-user]

McGregor is overrated, fueled by the UFC hype machine that is so good at putting someone on a pedestal whether they deserve it or not, as long as they bring in the money.

McGregor has a terrible ground game, he is also too far into this to be so one dimensional, so even though his standup is very good it means very little outside of a boxing ring, he will get taken down by a decent wrestler and doesnt have the tools to then turn it around.

Guys who have been training Jujitsu or wrestling for years have a simple blueprint for success against McGregor, a bit like Paul Daley, once on the ground you have a turtle on it's back.

I do feel like a great wrestler with average standup will always fair better (if they implement the right gameplan) than someone with great standup but average ground game.

At the end of the day he was just typically Irish. Loudmouthed, and arrogant, with that 'delightful' Irish cockyness that he cant back up, though I was pleasantly surprised to see him more humble in defeat. It's something he should get used to as even back in "his" rather thin weight division he will struggle if his groundgame is so poor and he runs out of ideas when he doesn't get a quick knockout.

All in all just another Daley/Hardy, they just dont have the full skillset required for MMA.

[shambolic]

FredClogs said:

There's a Rener Gracie breakdown of the Sage Northcut tap on Youtube which contradicts what you're saying, he changed my opinion of what happened there. I've also heard Eddie Bravo come to Sage's defence. Not that I care much, it is what it is.

I'm not saying the choke wasn't on, but there is an escape from side control and to really apply the leverage on the choke you want to be in side control and skooting round towards the head with your body out to the side.
TBF to Sage no one knows but him and the guy choking him. It's just how it looked to me from a BJJ point of view. And I never studied it in great detail to be honest.

[shambolic]

Thunderhead McGregor doesn't have a terrible ground game. Diaz just has an excellent one. And it's hard to think of any escape or move when you have just been clocked in the face several times.
Pure BJJ and sports Jiujitsu is a bit different from Jiujitsu for MMA as you need to factor in getting smashed in the face while on your back.
Try a berimbolo in an MMA match and you'll get hammered for instance.
Not here to defend McGregor but he is a very good MMA fighter.

[anonymous-user]

shambolic said:

Thunderhead McGregor doesn't have a terrible ground game. Diaz just has an excellent one. And it's hard to think of any escape or move when you have just been clocked in the face several times.
Pure BJJ and sports Jiujitsu is a bit different from Jiujitsu for MMA as you need to factor in getting smashed in the face while on your back.
Try a berimbolo in an MMA match and you'll get hammered for instance.
Not here to defend McGregor but he is a very good MMA fighter.

I disagree, from what Ive seen he seems out of ideas very quickly when on his back, although you're right in that he had been hit quite a few times so wasnt at his best.

Against a well rounded fighter with decent wrestling I just dont see him faring well, although at the lower weight classes it's easier to avoid the takedown, and also work your way back up.

I dont imagine we will see him go heavier than 155 ever again, and even at 155 I think he may find he isnt as dominant, especially when taken down.

[ben5575]

Thunderhead said:

McGregor is overrated, fueled by the UFC hype machine that is so good at putting someone on a pedestal whether they deserve it or not, as long as they bring in the money.

McGregor has a terrible ground game, he is also too far into this to be so one dimensional, so even though his standup is very good it means very little outside of a boxing ring, he will get taken down by a decent wrestler and doesnt have the tools to then turn it around.

Guys who have been training Jujitsu or wrestling for years have a simple blueprint for success against McGregor, a bit like Paul Daley, once on the ground you have a turtle on it's back.

I do feel like a great wrestler with average standup will always fair better (if they implement the right gameplan) than someone with great standup but average ground game.

At the end of the day he was just typically Irish. Loudmouthed, and arrogant, with that 'delightful' Irish cockyness that he cant back up, though I was pleasantly surprised to see him more humble in defeat. It's something he should get used to as even back in "his" rather thin weight division he will struggle if his groundgame is so poor and he runs out of ideas when he doesn't get a quick knockout.

All in all just another Daley/Hardy, they just dont have the full skillset required for MMA.

I'm fairly sure Mendes is a wrestler and McGregor didn't seem to struggle too much with him... I do agree with your wider point of wrestler vs standup though.

Not wanting to sound like a Jack Slack fanboy (although I am, obviously), his pre and post fight analysis makes for interesting reading. The highlights include:

Diaz is a lot bigger and therefore has a longer reach/better range
Diaz boxes and is therefore vulnerable to leg kicks
Connor went for punches and neglected leg kicks, save for a few oblique kicks (one of which is awful to watch in slo-mo). A mistake in terms of Diaz's style generally but also to negate Diaz's reach advantage
Connor as a southpaw is used to leading with his backhand left against orthodox fighters.
Connor showed that he was largely incapable of leading with his right (jab or hook) which is obviously needed against somebody in the same stance as you. This was his main weakness in the fight.
Connor was therefore left defaulting to throwing a backhand lead at somebody with a significant height and reach advantage. One that also leans in to opponent to create a false range and leans back to counter with a lead hook. Connor was therefore left swinging at thin air, being continuously countered by lead hooks and straight jabs to the midriff.
Add to that his continual movement and he was blowing hard through the 2nd. Got caught and was owned on the ground.

Bottom line; he was stupid to jump up the weights and fight somebody bigger and who could take a punch from a smaller man.

[anonymous-user]

That's all very true, he shouldn't have taken the fight and speaks back to his arrogance, lesson learnt and another UFC cash cow meets it's end.

I do still feel that he doesnt have the ground skills for MMA, but will see what he does next.

Mendes is truly rubbish at getting someone down and keeping him there, think he's lost his last 3 because he tries to impose his wrestling and yet his opponent can get back up without too much trouble. I dont think he is a good example.

Saying that it's a thin division at 145, McGregor could comfortably stay and dominate there I recon, which I bet is what Dana will encourage him to do.