Discussion
This really puts a lid on this cataclysmic disaster of a winter. Not only have we been thrashed beyond all comprehension, lost our most dependable batsman, lost our best spinner by miles, our keeper's confidence is shot to bits, our manager has just quit...what do the brilliant ECB then decide the best move is.....before the new manager has been appointed who may well have his own opinion as to what to do with KP....tell our one world class player his services are no longer required.
Staggeringly unbelievable.
Possibly the ONLY thing the ECB could have done to make the situation worse. If KP is really THAT decisive then explain why. Otherwise its down to the management to accommodate all the players. Basically Paul Downton and the England management are saying "we don't know how to manage Kevin, yes he's a world class player but because we can't handle him we won't pick him again"
This also denies English cricket fans seeing him over the last few years of his career.
God I really despair at English cricket.
Staggeringly unbelievable.
Possibly the ONLY thing the ECB could have done to make the situation worse. If KP is really THAT decisive then explain why. Otherwise its down to the management to accommodate all the players. Basically Paul Downton and the England management are saying "we don't know how to manage Kevin, yes he's a world class player but because we can't handle him we won't pick him again"
This also denies English cricket fans seeing him over the last few years of his career.
God I really despair at English cricket.
Marty Funkhouser said:
Possibly the ONLY thing the ECB could have done to make the situation worse. If KP is really THAT decisive then explain why. Otherwise its down to the management to accommodate all the players. Basically Paul Downton and the England management are saying "we don't know how to manage Kevin, yes he's a world class player but because we can't handle him we won't pick him again"
It's not a matter of "managing him', he's proven to be unmanageable. He's disloyal and disruptive and if, as seems obvious, he's disrupted the harmony of the dressing room and adversely affected the performance of his team mates then he's poison and they need to be shot of him. Their mistake is letting him back after he betrayed his team mates in 2012. He's clearly an asshole and by his actions has been a detrimental influence on the rest of the team. As such they are clearly better off without him.
I'm sure it will all come out as it did with Boycott and Yorkshire. I think in the next months and years we will learn just how much of an asshole he was.
This was always going to split opinion. Armchair pundits looking at it in a one dimensional way will have a view. However this was a unanimous decision from Cook/Giles/Downton/Whitacker and will have taken into account his behaviour which we don't see, his batting and how many times did we say jeez why did you do that KP?? He is past his best and in the context of the team rebuild perhaps it was felt that they did'nt need his ego in the way. I reckon there was a lot going on that we know nothing about. After all if he added that much value to the team why is he still not there guys?
Podie said:
No one is unmanageable - that's a line trotted out by poor managers.
KP is one of those players that the opposition don't like. He's got spirit and fight, and at the moment he's looking like the only player who has, and we've binned him.
He may well have spirit and fight but it's a shame he didn't show more of it in the recent Ashes series. If he had, maybe yesterday's events wouldn't have happened.KP is one of those players that the opposition don't like. He's got spirit and fight, and at the moment he's looking like the only player who has, and we've binned him.
His last sixteen innings for England in all competitions has seen him average 23.1 with just three half centuries (although he made two other scores in the forties). Those aren't good enough stats for a man who believes he is the best player around and doesn't dilute his trouble-making in the dressing room enough to make him a candidate for a place in the Test team.
England football team has suffered in the past for trying to make the best eleven individuals work as a team rather than just select the eleven based on HOW they work as a team. Now, maybe England can rebuild without the awkward presence of KP in there.
GloverMart said:
Podie said:
No one is unmanageable - that's a line trotted out by poor managers.
KP is one of those players that the opposition don't like. He's got spirit and fight, and at the moment he's looking like the only player who has, and we've binned him.
He may well have spirit and fight but it's a shame he didn't show more of it in the recent Ashes series. If he had, maybe yesterday's events wouldn't have happened.KP is one of those players that the opposition don't like. He's got spirit and fight, and at the moment he's looking like the only player who has, and we've binned him.
His last sixteen innings for England in all competitions has seen him average 23.1 with just three half centuries (although he made two other scores in the forties). Those aren't good enough stats for a man who believes he is the best player around and doesn't dilute his trouble-making in the dressing room enough to make him a candidate for a place in the Test team.
England football team has suffered in the past for trying to make the best eleven individuals work as a team rather than just select the eleven based on HOW they work as a team. Now, maybe England can rebuild without the awkward presence of KP in there.
In isolation I see your point, but KP scored more runs than any other England player in the Ashes series; including two 50s. I seem to recall Cook scored fewer runs but one more 50. Still, take a look at these stats lifted from the Grauniad.
First-innings scores in first four Tests
First five wickets: Australia 612; England 596
Australia 16 more runs
Last five wickets: Australia 842; England 218
Australia 624 more runs
So where does the batting issue lie?
England as a team behaved like headless chickens - 18 players over the competition just becuase a left armer got some mojo. Jeez. Australia used the same 11 players throughout the series.
I still maintain that KP is a convenient scape goat.
dav123a said:
I think whatever want on will come out today.
Hopefully. Aggers saying even they haven't had any leaks. Athers saying all the senior players consulted about KP and not a single one sided with him.The way the whole team behaved still leads me to think something cataclysmic happened behind the scenes early on in the tour.
Maybe they are all keeping their powder dry for the autobiography. Swanny in the starting blocks for that surely.
Wow. England getting rid of a established match winner. Good news for all the other teams out there. In my opinion he is the stand out name in the England team. England should really make some compromises for him due to the ability he has. Look at the Pakistan team and the way they treat Shahid Afridi. Afridi is now a match winner with both ball and bat. He used to be such a liability but his match winning ability has kept him in the team for years. He used to, and still gets out in the most ridiculous way ever but he is managed by the team and everyone knows what he can deliver.
I believe England should take a similar approach to Pietersen. This guy could have been an all time great if he was treated as 'the main man'.
I believe England should take a similar approach to Pietersen. This guy could have been an all time great if he was treated as 'the main man'.
NISMOgtr said:
Wow. England getting rid of a established match winner. Good news for all the other teams out there. In my opinion he is the stand out name in the England team. England should really make some compromises for him due to the ability he has. Look at the Pakistan team and the way they treat Shahid Afridi. Afridi is now a match winner with both ball and bat. He used to be such a liability but his match winning ability has kept him in the team for years. He used to, and still gets out in the most ridiculous way ever but he is managed by the team and everyone knows what he can deliver.
I believe England should take a similar approach to Pietersen. This guy could have been an all time great if he was treated as 'the main man'.
Except he isn't winning matches for England - would the results in Australia have been significantly different without KP? Add in his reported disruptive behaviour and it's easy to see why the senior players and management think he's more trouble than he's worth.I believe England should take a similar approach to Pietersen. This guy could have been an all time great if he was treated as 'the main man'.
ewenm said:
Except he isn't winning matches for England - would the results in Australia have been significantly different without KP? Add in his reported disruptive behaviour and it's easy to see why the senior players and management think he's more trouble than he's worth.
When you have a player with his ability, compromises need to be made in his favour. He will not win you every match, but he will win you matches almost single handedly, unlike alot of players in the team currently. He was not the worst player during the Ashes by any stretch, yet he is the one that seems to be targeted as the reason for England's failure. It's up to the management to deal with his type of player, and to maximise the benefit they can get from him rather than just chuck him out. At the moment, i don't think England have any flair players - i think they have become dull again.
NISMOgtr said:
When you have a player with his ability, compromises need to be made in his favour. He will not win you every match, but he will win you matches almost single handedly, unlike alot of players in the team currently. He was not the worst player during the Ashes by any stretch, yet he is the one that seems to be targeted as the reason for England's failure.
It's up to the management to deal with his type of player, and to maximise the benefit they can get from him rather than just chuck him out. At the moment, i don't think England have any flair players - i think they have become dull again.
They've been making those compromises for years for KP (for example, his refusal to move in the batting order). I think they've just had enough of him and aren't getting the expected benefits of having him in the team despite the compromises in his favour.It's up to the management to deal with his type of player, and to maximise the benefit they can get from him rather than just chuck him out. At the moment, i don't think England have any flair players - i think they have become dull again.
NISMOgtr said:
When you have a player with his ability, compromises need to be made in his favour. He will not win you every match, but he will win you matches almost single handedly, unlike alot of players in the team currently. He was not the worst player during the Ashes by any stretch, yet he is the one that seems to be targeted as the reason for England's failure.
It's up to the management to deal with his type of player, and to maximise the benefit they can get from him rather than just chuck him out. At the moment, i don't think England have any flair players - i think they have become dull again.
Can you provide recent examples when KP has performed to the degree where he is almost single handedly responsible for a victory?It's up to the management to deal with his type of player, and to maximise the benefit they can get from him rather than just chuck him out. At the moment, i don't think England have any flair players - i think they have become dull again.
The judgement is simple - is it worth trying to put up with all the crap that he brings in the declining years of his career? He isn't going to be as good as he was - hasn't been for some time. So why put up with his s
t?
Quite correctly, the powers that be are looking to build a team that might dominate again - not overnight because that's never going to happen - but over the course of the next 5-10 years. The older players have to accept that it's highly unlikely that they will be part of that team. If they can contribute to building a new team over the next few years, then great, but Pietersen isn't into team building.....
t? Quite correctly, the powers that be are looking to build a team that might dominate again - not overnight because that's never going to happen - but over the course of the next 5-10 years. The older players have to accept that it's highly unlikely that they will be part of that team. If they can contribute to building a new team over the next few years, then great, but Pietersen isn't into team building.....
Fittster said:
Can you provide recent examples when KP has performed to the degree where he is almost single handedly responsible for a victory?
No. Not recent enough. Although there are other people who have not been performing as they should yet have kept their places. Shame we won't get to see him play on the international scene again.Will I'm not KPs biggest fan, this hasn't been handled well. It really should have been the decision of the incoming manager, whoever he may be.
I also wish that we'd get better at putting older players out to grass before they become well past their best, would have saved us the grim watching of Prior and Swann in the last series.
I also wish that we'd get better at putting older players out to grass before they become well past their best, would have saved us the grim watching of Prior and Swann in the last series.
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