Discussion
I can understand why he was sacked. Yes he has been an amazing batsman, but over the past few years he has not performed up to his ususal high standards, often throwing his wicket away when the team needed him most.
You can only presume that the Management decided that for the greater good of the team moving forward to not include him in their future plans. Now what they should also do is cut some more of the team that failed so dramtically and make some big changes for the team moving forward. If they place all the blame on KP and the rest get away scot free then it highlights they have not learned anything and will continue on a downward spiral.
You can only presume that the Management decided that for the greater good of the team moving forward to not include him in their future plans. Now what they should also do is cut some more of the team that failed so dramtically and make some big changes for the team moving forward. If they place all the blame on KP and the rest get away scot free then it highlights they have not learned anything and will continue on a downward spiral.
spikeyhead said:
Will I'm not KPs biggest fan, this hasn't been handled well. It really should have been the decision of the incoming manager, whoever he may be.
Agreed, it will be interesting if the incoming manager is a supporter of KP, even more so if they are outspoken as Vaughan has been. Vaughan, Tuffers and Harmy are on 5Live tonight from 7, should be worth a listen.
Podie said:
GloverMart said:
Podie said:
No one is unmanageable - that's a line trotted out by poor managers.
KP is one of those players that the opposition don't like. He's got spirit and fight, and at the moment he's looking like the only player who has, and we've binned him.
He may well have spirit and fight but it's a shame he didn't show more of it in the recent Ashes series. If he had, maybe yesterday's events wouldn't have happened.KP is one of those players that the opposition don't like. He's got spirit and fight, and at the moment he's looking like the only player who has, and we've binned him.
His last sixteen innings for England in all competitions has seen him average 23.1 with just three half centuries (although he made two other scores in the forties). Those aren't good enough stats for a man who believes he is the best player around and doesn't dilute his trouble-making in the dressing room enough to make him a candidate for a place in the Test team.
England football team has suffered in the past for trying to make the best eleven individuals work as a team rather than just select the eleven based on HOW they work as a team. Now, maybe England can rebuild without the awkward presence of KP in there.
In isolation I see your point, but KP scored more runs than any other England player in the Ashes series; including two 50s. I seem to recall Cook scored fewer runs but one more 50. Still, take a look at these stats lifted from the Grauniad.
First-innings scores in first four Tests
First five wickets: Australia 612; England 596
Australia 16 more runs
Last five wickets: Australia 842; England 218
Australia 624 more runs
So where does the batting issue lie?
England as a team behaved like headless chickens - 18 players over the competition just becuase a left armer got some mojo. Jeez. Australia used the same 11 players throughout the series.
I still maintain that KP is a convenient scape goat.
One point though.
The massive difference between the Aussie and England tail figures show where we went wrong, 624 runs down over four matches is huge. But while I accept their lower half batted much better than our lower half, those stats are for the last five WICKETS. So presumably if someone like Warner or Clarke are in for a long time and hence bat way down the innings, that's going to help the lower order figures anyway, surely?
So Pietersen is to blame for not hanging around to bat with the tail-enders.
A bit tongue in cheek but neither of us are wrong really.
'England captain Alastair Cook played an influential role in the decision to end Kevin Pietersen's international career.
Cook was part of a three-man panel who met the batsman on Monday and told him of their decision.
Although some members of the England dressing room have no issues with Pietersen, the BBC has learned that Cook felt the 33-year-old's departure was in the best interests of the team.'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26046932
Cook was part of a three-man panel who met the batsman on Monday and told him of their decision.
Although some members of the England dressing room have no issues with Pietersen, the BBC has learned that Cook felt the 33-year-old's departure was in the best interests of the team.'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26046932
Podie said:
No one is unmanageable - that's a line trotted out by poor managers.
I disagree Pods. And it looks like so do all the players and the England management. You sometimes get players (and employees) who are such a poisonous presence that they affect everyone else around them and they need to go, however good they are at their own job. Pietersen appears to be one of those.I totally agree with this article http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/curren...
Edited by Spiffing on Wednesday 5th February 16:56
Never agreed with the Moron before but I think he's spot on here.
Piers Morgan on friend Kevin Pietersen
Piers Morgan
"It's one of the most disgraceful decisions in the history of modern English sport.
"He appears to be the sacrificial lamb so that others in English cricket can save their face.
"What you have now is a collection of people at the ECB who literally have no clue about man management.
"In KP, you have a maverick player, not the easiest to manage, but then none of the best players are. You need someone who knows how to manage a genius.
"What we are seeing is a debacle of management on an epic scale.
"I can tell from the reaction on social media that 95% of the English public are absolutely enraged by this.
"All of the best players of the last 25 years have all been difficult. Ian Botham, Freddie Flintoff, David Gower, and have all taken great captains to draw the best out of them.
"We have a useless captain, no coach and an ECB management team who have committed professional suicide."
Piers Morgan on friend Kevin Pietersen
Piers Morgan
"It's one of the most disgraceful decisions in the history of modern English sport.
"He appears to be the sacrificial lamb so that others in English cricket can save their face.
"What you have now is a collection of people at the ECB who literally have no clue about man management.
"In KP, you have a maverick player, not the easiest to manage, but then none of the best players are. You need someone who knows how to manage a genius.
"What we are seeing is a debacle of management on an epic scale.
"I can tell from the reaction on social media that 95% of the English public are absolutely enraged by this.
"All of the best players of the last 25 years have all been difficult. Ian Botham, Freddie Flintoff, David Gower, and have all taken great captains to draw the best out of them.
"We have a useless captain, no coach and an ECB management team who have committed professional suicide."
truck71 said:
Never agreed with the Moron before but I think he's spot on here.
Piers Morgan on friend Kevin Pietersen
Piers Morgan
"It's one of the most disgraceful decisions in the history of modern English sport.
"He appears to be the sacrificial lamb so that others in English cricket can save their face.
"What you have now is a collection of people at the ECB who literally have no clue about man management.
"In KP, you have a maverick player, not the easiest to manage, but then none of the best players are. You need someone who knows how to manage a genius.
"What we are seeing is a debacle of management on an epic scale.
"I can tell from the reaction on social media that 95% of the English public are absolutely enraged by this.
"All of the best players of the last 25 years have all been difficult. Ian Botham, Freddie Flintoff, David Gower, and have all taken great captains to draw the best out of them.
"We have a useless captain, no coach and an ECB management team who have committed professional suicide."
Meh.Piers Morgan on friend Kevin Pietersen
Piers Morgan
"It's one of the most disgraceful decisions in the history of modern English sport.
"He appears to be the sacrificial lamb so that others in English cricket can save their face.
"What you have now is a collection of people at the ECB who literally have no clue about man management.
"In KP, you have a maverick player, not the easiest to manage, but then none of the best players are. You need someone who knows how to manage a genius.
"What we are seeing is a debacle of management on an epic scale.
"I can tell from the reaction on social media that 95% of the English public are absolutely enraged by this.
"All of the best players of the last 25 years have all been difficult. Ian Botham, Freddie Flintoff, David Gower, and have all taken great captains to draw the best out of them.
"We have a useless captain, no coach and an ECB management team who have committed professional suicide."
Removing KP was a pretty easy decision. His career has been winding-down for some time, at least at Test level. Add that to the fact that the only team he seems to want to be in is Team KP & he virtually sacked himself.
Can't remember the last time he played a match winning innings. All recent memory is of him getting 30, 40 or 50 runs, then flinging his bat at absolutely everything & getting caught in the deep.
Genius...
Ok.
Think of a football team, where one player doesn't want to pass, all he wants to do is dribble around the opposition and score fantastic goals. This player does this in 1 out of 100 attempts, and when he does he is called the best player ever...blah blah. In the 99 times he doesn't score, he loses the ball and the opposition go onto score and win the game. In post match interviews this player doesn't thank the team or talk about team spirit, he reminds us all just how good he is.
Those who read The Sun will think Fabian de Guisson.
Kevin Pietersen is that player, a moment of genius doesn't make a legend.
Those who read The Sun will think Fabian de Guisson.
Kevin Pietersen is that player, a moment of genius doesn't make a legend.
I've got to admit that he has been made the sacrificial lamb and is being used as a way to deflect criticism from the rest of the ECB.
Swann said Pieterson had been on his best behaviour since returning and this apparent stand up argument between him and Cook in Australia has already been rubbished.
I don't think Cook is going to come out of this well.
Swann said Pieterson had been on his best behaviour since returning and this apparent stand up argument between him and Cook in Australia has already been rubbished.
I don't think Cook is going to come out of this well.
Daft decision. I can see many years of hardship now rebuilding. Given how Haddin and rogers are going at 37/38 with less talent he had a good 4 years left. It's clear cook is not a leader and people like Peterson will really only respect someone who can big him up but also put him in his place if required. Neither cook / Giles etc have the balls to do that. Don't forget the Aussies plans and execution to him were spot on. They gave him nothing and he still top scored for the series. He could easily come out in the next series against poorer bowling and done very well. Given there is no one coming though knocking on the door to take his place it does seem odd timing.
phil-sti said:
I don't think Cook is going to come out of this well.
I agree with that. If Cook said he wanted him in the side he'd be there. It's an utterly shambolic decision.
One thing that is undoubtedly true.....the teams facing England are delighted he's no longer playing for them. That's all you need to know.
This won't go away either....the next time Cook is in a press conference he's going to get bombarded about it. He can dismiss it, say it's irrelevant " we're looking forward etc" but I honestly think people will get really angry about this. If England don't play well in the summer there will be some beer fuelled abuse getting lobbed at them.
Edited by Cheib on Wednesday 5th February 20:21
Career averages Span Mat Inns NO Runs HS Ave BF SR 100 50 0 4s 6s
unfiltered 2005-2014 104 181 8 8181 227 47.28 13255 61.72 23 35 10 985 81 Profile
filtered 2012-2014 26 48 1 1820 186 38.72 3101 58.69 4 10 3 219 25
Kp's stats do indeed bear out a general decline. However, perhaps remember his 186 away in India, which certainly won England that game. Indeed won us the series.
Still averages close to 40, I shall beaver off and produce Cooks last two years shall I ?
unfiltered 2005-2014 104 181 8 8181 227 47.28 13255 61.72 23 35 10 985 81 Profile
filtered 2012-2014 26 48 1 1820 186 38.72 3101 58.69 4 10 3 219 25
Kp's stats do indeed bear out a general decline. However, perhaps remember his 186 away in India, which certainly won England that game. Indeed won us the series.
Still averages close to 40, I shall beaver off and produce Cooks last two years shall I ?
Broad has performed well on the field - comparatively.
Anderson appears to have lost his magic over the last two series (home and away Ashes).
Cook has been shown to be inadequate as a captain, and should be replaced.
As for Pietersen, we don't know why he's been 'sacked' so can't really say definitively whether he deserved it or not.
He certainly shouldn't have been sacked for his performances; he must have done some terrible deed off the field.
Anderson appears to have lost his magic over the last two series (home and away Ashes).
Cook has been shown to be inadequate as a captain, and should be replaced.
As for Pietersen, we don't know why he's been 'sacked' so can't really say definitively whether he deserved it or not.
He certainly shouldn't have been sacked for his performances; he must have done some terrible deed off the field.
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