The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint

[dangerousB]

nick s said:

Wow, how interesting! There's a place near me that does this. I didn't realise it gave you such an in depth analysis. Isn't 49% hematocrit the theoretical maximum without doping? good result!

Is it more beneficial to do the bike one or running one? Bearing in mind most of us on this thread do both sports!

I think i'm going to book myself in!

I do think this stuff is fascinating and I've only put a little bit up . . . the report they gave me is 5 pages long!

Re. my heamatocrit, I think professional cyclists suffer because they're training very hard, very regularly which depresses their values - my brother did this test at the same time as me (at a different lab) and his heamatocrit was 50% . . . I think those values just indicate we're both fairly well "rested" at the moment!!

Ideally you should do one test for running and one for cycling - from what I understand your economy/muscle recruitment for each discipline will differ quite dramatically, so you won't be able to draw conclusions from your running lactate curve (or other economy figures) and transpose them to equivalent cycling power outputs. I chose to do the test on the treadmill because I've been reasonably happy with my progress on the bike, but I did feel that I wasn't making the same progress with my running (despite nearly similar volumes).

Thanks to this test, I now know why that is so from here on I can use my training time a great deal more intelligently - if you've got a facility near you, I would definitely book a test . . . let's face it, most of us will happily pay 100 quid for a new pair of trainers, this test'll cost you somewhere between £150 - £250 and will give you a HUGE insight into how your body performs, why it performs in that way and the zones you should be training in to progress QUICKER.

Total bargain!

[dangerousB]

IroningMan said:

I've always been at a loss as to when to do this - is it worth taking a 'benchmark' even when you know your fitness is poor?

It's probably the best time to do it I'd say - it's why I've done mine at this moment. You're going to be at your least fit when embarking on a new tranche of training and what better time to find out your data (even if it doesn't make for comfortable reading!!) - to my mind, it serves two purposes; first, it gives you a good kick up the arse and second, it ensures your training is spot on from day 1.

The guys that did the test on me said there was no point in doing it any more than 3 times a year though - essentially all you're doing is using the data to define your training zones and to redefine those zones with another test, you have to wait for your body's adaptation.

Edited by dangerousB on Wednesday 13th February 17:27

[dangerousB]

IroningMan said:

Name: Tubby
Age: 45
Mass: 93.6kg
Height: 180cm
BMI: 28.9
Bodyfat: 20.84%

Haemocrit: 49%
LT1: 138bpm/150W
LT2/IAT: 165bpm/225W
Max: 183bpm/300W
Max Lactate: 10.38mmol
VO2 Max: 42.3ml/kg/min
VO2 at LT2/IAT: 37.6ml/kg/min (89% of VO2 Max)

Obviously that VO2 max figure is / a lot more kg than it should be...I had the same respiratory system when I weighed 85kg twenty years ago.

Verdict: room for improvement. A reasonable aerobic base and no sign of any untoward limitations, with a higher than expected lactate tolerance - I kept going for a good while above LT2.

I need to at least maintain and ideally increase training volume at base (HR 120 - 138) and put in much more focussed tempo work (HR 150 - 165) to move the lactate line over to the right. If I want to improve my climbing then I need to schedule some threshold sessions (HR 165 - 170) to further improve lactate tolerance.

You've no aversion to hard work either by the looks of things . . . good effort that man!!!

Only thing I'd add looking at those figures is that if you want to improve your climbing ability (which is going to be essential for Wales . . . there's gradients up to 16% from what I've been told), one other option is to see if you can get down to <15% body fat - you'll see (and feel) a massive improvement not only in your climbing, but also your run (which again in Wales is a right tough course from the info I've been given).

[dangerousB]

What's it now DrGav? 14 weeks(ish)?? How's training shaping up? How's your better half's training going as well?

I haven't had the opportunity to read your blog in the last couple of weeks - I know it may sound daft to you, but I've only really just got started (properly) in the last week or so for IM Wales and it still feels ages away . . . I saw your post and thought "ooh, I hope you've got a couple of 5 week months between now and Austria"!!

Turfed myself out of bed at 5am this morning for a 15k run - beanie, headtorch & gloves required. Fantastic. Out and back effort and saw the sunrise on my way back to a warm shower!

First day it's felt that it's game on

[dangerousB]

Fourmotion said:

So how many of us are doing Wales then? Think I might stick my PH cycle jersey on in T1!

Well I am . . . I thought IroningMan was as well, but perhaps I was being my usual airhead self and got that wrong!

If you're not in for Wales IroningMan, there's still time to enter, it's not quite sold out yet

Talking of kit, how did I miss a PH cycling top? Darn!! I'll have to see if I can sort myself out a PH branded tri suit (graphics are my speciality!)

[dangerousB]

mondeoman said:

So I'm looking at 9 mins for the swim, 28 mins for the run (realistically) and no idea yet for the ride. And only 8 weeks left....

What event are you competing in mondeoman? It's always a pain in the arse at this time of the year what with every man and his dog having a cold/'flu/virus!! Fingers crossed, I've escaped this year!

Ayahuasca said:

Got a choice of doing an extreme sprint, or an extreme olympic in April. I did the sprint last year and wanted to do the olympic this year. I am fit enough for a relatively comfortable sprint, but not sure about the olympic. I am not bothered about winning, but I don't want to be last! It is ocean swimming / mountain-biking and cross-country running BTW. Any views on how much harder twice the distance is?

What have your training hours been like in the last couple of months? That really would dictate what I'd do.

Personally I don't think an Oly is twice as hard as a sprint, physically anyway. I think if you gave it a go now, you'll find the mental aspect I've always found it a lot tougher mentally though - basically you've got double the amount of suffering to contend with!

I wouldn't go winging it if you haven't trained at the greater distances in the last couple of months . . . I've always found the mental aspect tougher than the physical when moving up distances and unless you've trained well (with Oly distances in mind) in the last couple of months, I wouldn't go rushing into an Oly in April.

My advice would be go (try to!) beat your PB's at Sprint distance in April and then train for an August/September Oly (if there's any on the calendar locally) . . . let us all know how it goes whatever you choose to do though!

[dangerousB]

drgav2005 said:

We're off for a week in Lanzarote at Club La Santa triathlon camp soon, so hopefully get some serious miles in on the saddle… certainly will break the monotony of the turbo trainer and will be nice to remind the body what warmth feels like!

You'll have a wicked time at CLS, awesome location for winter training and I reckon you'll see a definite performance improvement in having a training camp out there (well timed for Austria as well) - I'm halfway considering having a week out there myself soon!

Olympic sized pool, track and field stadium, some amazing cycling and odds on chance of a cracking tan . . . what more could you ask for?!! If you get the chance have a pop at the Haria climb or the Tabayesco and let us know what you think!!

[dangerousB]

graeme4130 said:

I get this nagging feeling I'll be having a crack at breaking the 10hr mark at IM in 2014

That's a mighty impressive goal! Anything starting with 10 is seriously impressive, let alone sub 10 . . . best of luck with the training - let us know how it goes!

I'm in for IM Wales this year - still 4½ months to go (which I'm very glad about!), but everything's going OK so far - been concentrating a little too much on my running, but then again it needed doing

Just fired up my Tacx trainer though, so should be able to restore the balance shortly!

[dangerousB]

944fan said:

I was watching the San Diego tri on BBC earlier. During the cycle phase they were forming pelotons and slipstreaming each other.

I thought drafting wasn't allowed? Or is that a different set of rules?

Races are draft legal for elites at Olympic distance - at IM distance nobody can draft (elites included).

[dangerousB]

drgav2005 said:

Try not to swallow the water - it's not particularly tasty!!!

Seconded! Imagine salty river water that someone's split a massive bag of tea into and you're pretty much there.

Great race though and a fantastic atmosphere - hopefully the weather will behave itself this year!!

[dangerousB]

mondeoman said:

Well, thats the first one out of the way - 1hr 29mm 23s

First up mate, bloody great effort! How did you find the whole experience?

mondeoman said:

Now all I'm thinking about is how to improve!

That's what we all do chap

mondeoman said:

I'm really struggling to see massive improvements in the ride and the run. But then maybe it is all in the mind...

It's not in the mind I'm afraid! I wish it were, as that'd be a lot easier to conquer!! Consistency in your training, a lot of miles and a lot of hard work.

As the (very true) training maxim goes . . . it doesn't get easier, you just go faster

[dangerousB]

esuuv and Gargamel said:

About how they got on at Windsor

Top efforts guys! Love that race . . . the swim isn't the easiest and the hill's a bit rude on the run (especially at the start of the first lap!), but every time I've done it there's always been a great atmosphere and as with all of Human Race's events, it's always well organised.

Tough luck this time esuuv on not going quite sub 2:30, but next time, eh?!! Oh and Gargamel:-

Gargamel said:

I can live without Swimming....

Just do more of it - swimming is one of those cruel disciplines that punishes you harshly if you don't do it a lot, but rewards you immensely when you do. Mine still isn't where I'd like it to be, but (personally speaking obviously) a long open water swim is, especially at this time of the year, absolutely sublime!

drgav2005 said:

2 weeks today and I'll be seeing if all this training has counted!

I've been following your blog (when I can!) and it looks like you're both well prepared - make sure you update us on here before you fly over and let us know how your taper's been and how your feeling pre-race got your race numbers jotted down though, so I'll definitely be following your progress on race day on the live tracker!!!

As far as my training's been going, it's been a little bit of a 'mare. I'm way ahead of last year at the moment, but work has gone absolutely beserk in the last 2 months (I'm self employed, so there's both good and bad in that) and 4 weeks ago I tore my peroneus brevis tendon in my right leg (inserts at the 5th metatarsal I think, but basically big swelling/bruising adjacent to my calcaneum). Ironically I managed to do that whilst walking the dog across the fields!!!

Unfortunately, that injury (albeit not really that serious) meant I couldn't run, bike or swim for 3 - 4 weeks, so I thought I'd get accommodation sorted for IM Wales whilst I was crook. That's when I found out that a 2 bed apartment in Tenby, for the long weekend was properly silly money and certainly more than I'm prepared to pay for a race in the UK!

Result? Transferred my entry

IM Lanzarote 2014

If anyone fancies joining me in this iconic event, just shout!

[dangerousB]

Gargamel said:

Lanza, very cool. How do the bike routes compare.

Lanza is around 2515m climbs. What is the welshy ? can't find a course profile.

Would love to go for Lanza if I do this, but would cripple my supporters financially. So going to keep on the welsh idea, and accept the water will be cold, and book the hotel well in advance!

Wales is 1750m - here's the course and from what I understand, the hills are short and sharp, whereas in Lanzarote, a lot of the climbing is loonnggg - to balance out the long ascents, there's some cracking descents as well, which you don't get in Wales (well, not as long anyway).

Max gradient on both courses is about 16%. Lanzarote is hot (38°C across the lava fields last year) and windy (95% of it in your face, or at least that's how it feels) and Wales, I'm guessing is probably not all that warm and potentially wet, which obviously brings its own challenges. Both courses offer some pretty cool, albeit very different, scenery to take your mind off the pain though!

Don't discount Lanz financially though - flights can be had for as little as £120 return if you book them early enough and what I did last year was booked a sleep 6 apartment for 10 days, so that I could go over early and my mates could come and stay whenever they wanted - 350 quid all in (and it was actually a very nice apartment, 5 mins from the startline) . . . that wouldn't have even got me 2 nights in a 2 bed apartment in Tenby. Problem was, I needed to stay for 3 nights!!! Believe it or not, Wales was shaping up to cost me a lot more this year, which combined with everything else, pushed me to switch.

Whichever race you choose though (and like any IM), either will give you an unforgettable experience and I can absolutely guarantee you will have to earn your finishers medal . . . you will visit some very dark places before you get the chance to put it around your neck!

[dangerousB]

baxb said:

Well, I hit the road to Klagenfurt this afternoon & should arrive there mid afternoon on Thursday.

drgav2005 said:

Yep, mind games aplenty in the taper…

Hope both you guys made it down to Klagenfurt drama free . . . time to soak up the atmosphere, relax and trust in your training!

Wishing you both a MONUMENTALLY great race come Sunday morning. Hope you enjoy every second (well, as much as is possible!) and look forward to hearing about it all when you get back! Hope that lake isn't too warm this year

Good luck and race easy

[dangerousB]

Top bombing baxb, DrGav (and Mrs DrGav!) Followed your efforts on the tracker, but like everyone else very much looking forward to the race reports - the numbers only ever tell a tiny portion of the story!

Awesome efforts though guys and very respectable times . . . have a and a from me!

[dangerousB]

First class write-ups guys! Great to read about your race experiences and once again, HUGE congratulations on both of your performances . . . you can now add IM to the letters after your surname now DrGav and way to go baxb - near PB and post-race hospitality, now that's living!!

I'm off to Ibiza for a week in approximately 5 hours . . . can't take my bike, but I'll still be running & swimming in between the clubbing though!!

[dangerousB]

rugbybloke said:

I am trying to decide whether to do another Ironman next year. I did France last year (my race report is here: http://www.runglendarun.blogspot.co.uk/
Considering the new Ironman Copenhagen or possibly going a little further afield to one of the US races..

Any recommendations?

As far as I'm aware, Copenhagen is quite an expensive European race to do (accommodation/going out), but on the plus side, great location and quick course.

As far as US races go, the two that interest me are Lake Tahoe and Boulder, but other than being in staggeringly beautiful places, I don't know too much about them . . . a quick trip to ironman.com will tell you all you need to know though.

As far as recommendations go, I can certainly vouch for IM Lanzarote as being undeniably unique, challenging and atmospheric (which is why I'm booked to go back next year!) . . . DrGav and baxb have just rocked and rolled in Klagenfurt and their reports are linked to/in the thread (sounds like they both had a fab race in a great location and atmosphere) and 2seas could let you know what the Cozumel race is like in Mexico (although from memory, he had a tough time last year).

All you've got to think about really, is when you want to race (based upon a realistic training schedule) and then see what's available and where . . . a lot of the races sell out very quickly, so if you can do that and get in as soon as registration opens and then book your accommodation and flights early, you'll save yourself a good few quid . . . I didn't adopt that approach for IM Wales this year and was absolutely horrified at how much accommodation was when I came to book it!!!!


ETA great race report, by the way . . . so very nearly competed in Nice this year and would have done had I got my entry in one day earlier!

Edited by dangerousB on Monday 22 July 19:10

[dangerousB]

Excellent reading all the race reports - top efforts from all of you London Tri competitors!
Esuuv, when it comes to taking off my wetsuit, I just whip the top down to my knees and stand on the crotch as I'm running . . . pops off pretty neatly most of the time (until you miss and go arse over tit!). If you've tried the vaseline round the ankles/calves option without success, it sounds like scissor action is the way forward though!! Congrats on the result, btw, that's a great time

Cos18 said:

Can anyone recommend some good tri shorts? Requirements are nothing too fancy (read: expensive).

Have a look at these - on sale at Wiggle at the moment and Zone3 stuff's pretty good

Sarkmeister said:

Probably aiming at 2:40-2:50 for a first attempt?

I'd say that was a good ball park for a first Oly distance with your run splits . . . I'd be interested to hear what your first 10k was like on wobbly legs!

[dangerousB]

Greg66 said:

Damn! This just got very real.

Have a great one chap, listen to your body, look after yourself and enjoy it. You're probably like most of us, suffering terribly with nerves on the countdown to a race, but you've trained long and hard and once you get going you'll strut your stuff, no worries

whatleytom said:

I am an Ironman

Woop, woop!!! NICE ONE fella!! Excellent race report - loved reading it . . . your swim sounded a bit of a 'mare, but cracking time despite that! What other races have you got your eye on?

drgav2005 said:

Decided I'd make the M-dot tattoo a bit more personal by incorporating the Dragon

Truly loving that artwork DrGav - I'll have to have a revamp on mine now as yours makes mine look a bit drab!! Mine's a constant reminder about maintaining physical and mental discipline. Only takes a glance! Always with pride too

[dangerousB]

Fourmotion said:

attempting an IM on an average 6 hours a week!

Brave man! It sounds like you've got good experience and to call upon and a good base to work from though - you'll probably surprise yourself! I must say that an average of 6 hours a week (for anybody) is right at the very bottom of what would get you through a race comfortably though . . . have you done much with long rides/runs or nutrition in the run up to Wales?

Sushi said:

I have "registered my interest" in next years Outlaw half. Not sure if it's to soon, but I'm guessing 6 months from JAn is enough time to train for it provided I keep up my fitness levels over the winter?
Am I right or am I in for a kicking?

I'd say that's totally fine - I wouldn't get too "comfy" over the winter though

whatleytom said:

I think there's also a lot of junk miles in the plan too. A lot of steady "zone 2" miles, which seem a lot like miles for the sake of doing miles. Sure your key long workouts are going to be in this zone, but do all the others!?

Next year I'm planning to add in much more speed and interval sessions.

The trouble with training to a "one size fits all" plan is that assumptions have to be made about the participants' levels of fitness (and fitness history). The sensible thing to do is assume that they're a lot lower than what they may actually be. I've not looked at Fink's plan, but with any plan that is focussed on getting someone through an IM the most fundamental thing to get right is the endurance phase - if you do nothing else but this work, you'll be OK. You may not be quick, but you'll be comfortable.

Base endurance work is mind numbingly tedious - lots of very slow miles, but don't make the mistake of thinking that they're some sort of "filler" in a training plan - there's very fundamental physiological adaptation occurring at these heart rates that is essential for pushing your speed (and AT) later on. If his plan detailed the reason for all these "steady" miles, you would be a great deal more motivated to do them, believe me!

I'm doing my endurance base for next year at the moment and it's monumentally tedious. My recovery sessions are done at 122bpm and even my "hard" days are only 140bpm and I'm fastidious about keeping within those limits for good reason. On a hot day a couple of weeks ago a sweaty fat man overtook me up a hill - I almost died of embarrassment!!!! I got over it quickly though, because thing is, it's smart training . . . you've just got to leave your ego at home and accept that your "rev limiter" is well and truly on during this phase - plenty of time for me to knock myself out yet

Remember the order . . . Endurance >> Stamina >> Economy >> Speed . . . and be very careful not to jump to the next level too early.