The Triathlon thread - Ironman, 70.3, Olympic, Sprint
Discussion
whatleytom said:
Yeah that's a good point you raise, and the necessity for periodisation is covered in quite some detail in the book that covers the plans. But in my opinion during the peak phase even after all of the base and build is done, there just doesn't seem to be enough intensity about the plan. I'll still be sticking to a base and build period, but I think its during the end of build into peak that I'll introduce slightly more intensity.
What are you training for at the moment if you don't mind me asking? Or are you just doing base miles in preparation for next year?
Ah, well there's me spouting off without even having had a look at it! I think that's the thing with plans though - whilst they're great for providing structure, we're all very different and you soon get to know how that structure can be adapted to work better with your own weaknesses or strengths. What with most of us being competitive as well, there is always the overwhelming temptation to turn on the taps before we're really ready for it (certainly with regards to the Base >> Build >> Peak >> Taper periodisation, anyway) . . . I just didn't want to see anyone making the errors I have in the past What are you training for at the moment if you don't mind me asking? Or are you just doing base miles in preparation for next year?
I'm entered for IM Lanzarote next May, so just into a 12 week base . . . I've only just got used to not taking any notice of speed and miles - my Garmin logs are all measured in hours and HR at the mo' - it would depress me otherwise!!
drgav2005 said:
I've only started getting back into the training after pretty much 5 weeks off (although I'm not including dog walking, hiking and a bit of gentle cycling that I did on my holidays). I was shocked to see how bloody high my heart rate was doing what I considered pretty low level training - for instance my h.r. now up at 160 bpm doing the treadmill sessions above. It's easy to think 'OMG I've lost sooooooo much fitness - I must train harder' but the reality is if I keep to the correct hr zones I'll get the fitness back pretty quickly but reduce the likelihood of injury along the way!
This is soooo true . . . I'd have to check, but from memory my HR was pretty much +20bpm across the range when I started again 
Great race report, great effort and to top it all off a bloody great finishing time Greg . . . that'd be a handy time even if you weren't hampered so late in your training!
I think you pretty much captured anyone's IM marathon in your race report. Standalone it's a chuffing long way to run. It really, properly is. But tab it on the end of a 3.8k swim/bunfight and a long day in the saddle and it does enter a whole different paradigm. The best way I heard it described was someone (I don't remember who, but it was probably Joe Friel) saying "IM marathons don't get ugly (as conventional ones do) at 35k, they start ugly and only get worse" . . . and that's assuming you've got 2 good legs to start with!!
Top bombing fella
I think you pretty much captured anyone's IM marathon in your race report. Standalone it's a chuffing long way to run. It really, properly is. But tab it on the end of a 3.8k swim/bunfight and a long day in the saddle and it does enter a whole different paradigm. The best way I heard it described was someone (I don't remember who, but it was probably Joe Friel) saying "IM marathons don't get ugly (as conventional ones do) at 35k, they start ugly and only get worse" . . . and that's assuming you've got 2 good legs to start with!!
Top bombing fella
Fluffsri said:
Afternoon all! Just been pointed in this direction, I have a question and hope someone can help us out please
One of my work colleagues is buying his lad a bike for passing his degree. He has a set him a £2k budget. His lad races in sprint and Olympic distance Tri's. My mate is sick of looking and fed up with his lad as he cant make his mind up. He has a Cube road bike and at first wanted a TT bike now he wants a road bike to fit bars etc too.
Can anyone recomend a bike that would suit his needs or have any better ideas, my mate hasnt got a lot more hair to pull out
I'm by no means an expert on bikes, but if it were my hard earned, I'd be straight off to buy one of these!One of my work colleagues is buying his lad a bike for passing his degree. He has a set him a £2k budget. His lad races in sprint and Olympic distance Tri's. My mate is sick of looking and fed up with his lad as he cant make his mind up. He has a Cube road bike and at first wanted a TT bike now he wants a road bike to fit bars etc too.
Can anyone recomend a bike that would suit his needs or have any better ideas, my mate hasnt got a lot more hair to pull out
Good luck for Sunday Fourmotion . . . can't wait to hear YOUR race report after hearing your lack of available hours for training!
Keeping fingers crossed you have a great day fella
ETA Have a great race essuv and Sarkmeister as well . . . forgot about the Henley - I was supposed to be racing in Wales this weekend, so naturally thought about that event!!!
Keeping fingers crossed you have a great day fella
ETA Have a great race essuv and Sarkmeister as well . . . forgot about the Henley - I was supposed to be racing in Wales this weekend, so naturally thought about that event!!!
Edited by dangerousB on Friday 6th September 21:47
Fourmotion said:
Boom! I'm an ironman.
Shame you couldn't sort accommodation DangerousB. I had the time of my life, it was truly an amazing race.
Rock 'n' roll fella - top effort!!!! Can't wait to hear all about it and kinda wished I could have been there, but I think I just left it a little too late to sort accommodation and it was far, far too much money Shame you couldn't sort accommodation DangerousB. I had the time of my life, it was truly an amazing race.
Lanzarote will make up for it though - just got to stop kidding myself that it's ages away Congratulations also to HughG, esuuv and Sarkmeister on your races too - I've got a few comments about some of those, but I'm just off out for a run, so I'll keep it until later when I've got a bit more time
Fourmotion said:
. . . less blowing my own trumpet
With that result off the back of that (lack of!) preparation, you've got every right to blow your own trumpet!What you've got to remember is that Wales is a tough, tough course and that 12:32 is worth pretty much a 12:00 at 90% of other IM's . . . now just imagine what you could achieve if you prepared properly and lost 10kg of that lard
TOP effort fella!!
DBSV8 said:
so Iron man wales in 2014 ?
Do it. Just treat it seriously and work on your weaknesses.Much as I hate the word used in this context, it really is a "journey" and race day is probably as life affirming as it gets
944fan said:
I will need to wear socks for the run though.
Randy Winkman said:
Don't under any circumstances run without socks unless you have tried it before and were OK.
Definitely heed this advice.Having forgotten to put my socks on in T2 (at my first Bananaman tri at Eton Dorney - 7.5k run) I can vouch for it
and it's the first and only time it's ever happened!!Finished the run, but spent 30 mins in the back of a St John's ambo having my feet patched up afterwards - tore the skin off in a ~30mm strip from the knuckle of my big toe, through my foot arch to the other side of my ankle on BOTH feet.
Went out in Twickenham that night and spent the entire night having my mates rip the piss out of me for walking like John Wayne!!!
944fan said:
Well GR did it in 14:04, pretty poor run by the looks of it.
For me, there should only be two ways of racing at Kona:-1. By qualifying. This demonstrates incredible performance (in 99% of cases).
2. Through their legacy programme. This demonstrates incredible dedication.
Anyone that gets to race there under any other circumstance, doesn't get it. If I was offered a "golden ticket" I simply wouldn't take it. I would feel (and be, IMO) a complete fraud.
God, I'd love to start that race though!!!!
I'm looking at:-
IM Lanzarote - 17th May (entered)
IM Mallorca - 27th September (finger poised)
however, I've just been with my girlfriend to a 12 week scan which confirmed she is infact 14 weeks pregnant
and the due date is 21st April!!!
Obviously it's great news (it would be our first), but my finger is going to have to stay poised for Mallorca and I'm totally hoping that if everything goes well that it's not late in arriving!
That aside, autumn training is going OK - I'm still getting used to running in the dark, the covers are just about to come off my indoor bike trainer and I'm just starting a 4 week strength/conditioning programme. Not done too much swimming recently, but did have a 7k charity sea swim a month or so ago and that felt surprisingly good - will be back in the pool in a few weeks though
IM Lanzarote - 17th May (entered)
IM Mallorca - 27th September (finger poised)
however, I've just been with my girlfriend to a 12 week scan which confirmed she is infact 14 weeks pregnant
and the due date is 21st April!!!Obviously it's great news (it would be our first), but my finger is going to have to stay poised for Mallorca and I'm totally hoping that if everything goes well that it's not late in arriving!
That aside, autumn training is going OK - I'm still getting used to running in the dark, the covers are just about to come off my indoor bike trainer and I'm just starting a 4 week strength/conditioning programme. Not done too much swimming recently, but did have a 7k charity sea swim a month or so ago and that felt surprisingly good - will be back in the pool in a few weeks though
Fourmotion said:
Congratulations! You're not going to be popular heading off to Lanzarote in May (despite what she says now)!
Greg66 said:
Congrats! . . . at present dangerousB jnr will arrive around the beginning of your final and biggest week of training. Not ideal...
Cheers guys!As you can imagine though, these two things have been a bit of a cause for concern since we found out! The scan going very well has just confirmed that I've got to decide now what to do.
All of my peak weeks are going to be during the time that I've really got to be around and not off on 4 - 6 hour rides and leaving my girlfriend with a very newborn baby for 5 or so days come May doesn't seem quite right (and that's how I feel now, let alone then). Problem is, I've got to be looking at booking flights and accommodation very soon, so I can't just suck it and see. Further problem is that I transferred my entry to Lanzarote from Wales and I'm not altogether sure of the regs, but I can't see them favouring another transfer.
I think I may just have to call the WTC and throw myself on their mercy . . . and see if they have any
Mallorca's looking very interesting though, I've got to say!
drgav2005 said:
Congratulations dangerousB!! Great news!! A 3 wheeler running buggy should now be on your Christmas list 
Cheers fella! I'm gonna look a right sight out for my morning run, what with a ginger spaniel in tow AND a buggy Let's hope they help my speed!Well, I've thrown my myself on the WTC's mercy and it appears they only have a little. Bad news is, one transfer only. Them's the rules. No exceptions regardless of circumstances. Which is fair enough I guess, it'd be a logistical nightmare for them if everyone had carte blanche with transfers.
Slightly good news is that it seems that I may be able to get 50% of my entry fee returned if I have to withdraw from Lanz, so all's not lost . . . having said that I'll need as much of that as I can! IM Mallorca entry fee . . . €485
For me at the mo' though, I think that's probably going to be the best course of action!
Fourmotion said:
Anyone enter the Norseman? Mate got in (first time!) and has asked me if I could potentially be his support runner! It's a race I really want to do, so will be good to get some experience before I get to do it.
Has anyone done it before? Just how bad a place are you in during the last 17km, what's the best encouragement you can give? During my ironman I the crowd kept me going, but I can hardly chant his name the whole time!!!
OMG, your mate is one lucky f****r!!!! I entered the ballot last year (unsuccessfully), but didn't this year what with a baby coming in April and (what's looking increasingly like) IM Mallorca in September.Has anyone done it before? Just how bad a place are you in during the last 17km, what's the best encouragement you can give? During my ironman I the crowd kept me going, but I can hardly chant his name the whole time!!!
Sorry I can't help with any real life experience, but there's some great course info available (I'll dig it out and post it when I can), but I would totally love to compete in this race - watch this is all I'll say
gives me goosebumps!
drgav2005 said:
Currently working my way through the 10 week intermediate Sufferfest training plan. If my FTP doesn't increase after all the work I've been putting in, I'll eat my chamois
What are those Sufferfest plans like Dr G? I've got to do a heap of work on the bike this year and may take a look at them if they're worthwhile . . . how detailed are the training plans? Do they work on HR or power output?Got it sorted!!!
I split it into 2 initial periods prep, then base and intensity will slowly increase during them. Prep is 4 weeks and more about developing the training habit and getting used to the consistency again. Training to train, I guess! Bike workouts are generally low intensity (IRO 65 - 75% HRmax) and I'll also be doing 3 sessions a week in the gym - again loads are fairly light (40 - 60% of 1 REP max & 20 reps/set).
After 4 weeks of adaptive work, I'll start my base proper - I split this approx 12 week period into 3 sections - Base 1 signals an increase of bike volume and a change in the gym work. I'll be working on strength which means lower reps (5 - 8/set) and heavier weight (body weight targetted, i.e. I'll be going for leg press of 2.5 - 3 x body weight). Base 2 and 3 just mean more volume, but I do target the 4th week of each phase as a recovery week (lower volume compared to previous 3).
Bottom line is, prep and base are about developing anatomical adaptations and aerobic endurance. Slowly increase volume throughout - i.e. during base 1, week 1 < week 2 < week 3 > week 4 (recovery). Similarly, Base 1 volume < Base 2 < Base 3 and slowly increase intensity. I'll look to be putting in 1800 - 2200 km of aerobic endurance work on the bike during these periods.
Hope that helps and makes at least a little bit of sense!
drgav2005 said:
Useful info . . .
Biggest change I've found so far is my ability to keep a higher cadence for much longer - I'd been a bit of a grinder previously but now my legs are learning to spin faster! It's the first proper bike training plan I've followed, so I'm not in a position to say it's the best out there... but if I can raise my FTP, and more importantly drop my bike split time for the Outlaw next year, it will be well worth the investment!
Thanks for that info DrGav - I'll be taking a look at them for use in the New Year! I've also (stupidly really, as the guys I'm doing it with are proper cyclists!) entered the Etape du Tour as a bike incentive/warm up for Mallorca and there is no way I'm going to have them drop me, so I've got to get my arse in gear bike wise this season!!!Biggest change I've found so far is my ability to keep a higher cadence for much longer - I'd been a bit of a grinder previously but now my legs are learning to spin faster! It's the first proper bike training plan I've followed, so I'm not in a position to say it's the best out there... but if I can raise my FTP, and more importantly drop my bike split time for the Outlaw next year, it will be well worth the investment!
Mike Random said:
What do people suggest is a good base training program for the bike?
I'm just about to embark on my winter bike training and it'll last somewhere in the region of 16 weeks. ETA that the 16 weeks is just my base!!!I split it into 2 initial periods prep, then base and intensity will slowly increase during them. Prep is 4 weeks and more about developing the training habit and getting used to the consistency again. Training to train, I guess! Bike workouts are generally low intensity (IRO 65 - 75% HRmax) and I'll also be doing 3 sessions a week in the gym - again loads are fairly light (40 - 60% of 1 REP max & 20 reps/set).
After 4 weeks of adaptive work, I'll start my base proper - I split this approx 12 week period into 3 sections - Base 1 signals an increase of bike volume and a change in the gym work. I'll be working on strength which means lower reps (5 - 8/set) and heavier weight (body weight targetted, i.e. I'll be going for leg press of 2.5 - 3 x body weight). Base 2 and 3 just mean more volume, but I do target the 4th week of each phase as a recovery week (lower volume compared to previous 3).
Bottom line is, prep and base are about developing anatomical adaptations and aerobic endurance. Slowly increase volume throughout - i.e. during base 1, week 1 < week 2 < week 3 > week 4 (recovery). Similarly, Base 1 volume < Base 2 < Base 3 and slowly increase intensity. I'll look to be putting in 1800 - 2200 km of aerobic endurance work on the bike during these periods.
Hope that helps and makes at least a little bit of sense!
Edited by dangerousB on Saturday 14th December 21:27
drgav2005 said:
Great news DangerousB!
I bet you're looking forward to that now
I've got 3 more weeks on my Sufferfest plan and I'm supposed to start my Fink plan for The Outlaw on the 30th December... looks like I'll have a one week overlap
Oh you bet! It's actually nice to have a rock steady date to work towards now I bet you're looking forward to that now
I've got 3 more weeks on my Sufferfest plan and I'm supposed to start my Fink plan for The Outlaw on the 30th December... looks like I'll have a one week overlap
looks like a fab course and the 70.3 gets rave reviews, so fingers crossed the IM should be epic. It'll also be nice change to race in temperatures under 30°C as well! Greg66 said:
I'm beginning to hate reading about you lot starting your training programmes!
Hard luck and I feel your pain! It's horrible being injured, but you've got plenty of time to bounce back - any fitness losses you've incurred won't take too long to get back and I always tell myself that if I had to choose a time, it's far better to get injured at the start of a programme rather than at any other time. Imagine if that happened in March/April!!Best of luck for a speedy recovery though!
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