England's Summer test matches, 2012

[DJRC]

Cheib said:

DJRC said:

1 test out of 3 and we could afford to lose it.
The bowling put us in positions to win both tests 2 and 3.

I disagree with that. Yes we had them 54-4 in the first innings at Lords but we let them off the hook in what were the best bowling conditions of the match. Whenever we had SA under pressure in the series we didn't follow through with it. South Africa's lowest score was 250 odd declared in the second innings .

Looking at the second test SA made 400 plus in the first innings and they lost their first wicket at 120 in both innnings. We weren't ever really on top in that game either.

We have great bowlers but SA batted better than we bowled at them.

Eh? They declared at 250 for 9 I think. We had a very gettable target, but the batting put 3 wickets down in quick tap style. The game was there to be won, with England's top order, it *should* have been won. Im strongly of the opinion a yr ago it would have been won.

Ive got no problem with the Boks having a cracking attack, Ive led the praise for them all summer and before they arrived, but England's top order should have been able to handle them and lsat yr would have done so. England have a bigger/deeper systematic problem than just a good Bok bowling line up. It was exposed in the sand in the winter and exposed again now. Our once strong batting lineup is at the end of its current lifespan. We never replaced Colly properly, but we papered over that crack, but now it is exposed again. The chap who we have found to fill it though will now have to fill KP's slot, so that last batting place is still a hole. FEC II is off colour, but Strauss is not the same Test level performer he was previously. Bottom line, end of. That rock solid ability to put 100+ opening partnerships against all bowlng attacks around the world has gone. England have no batting anchor point, no underlining solid foundations. We need to sort the Strauss situation and the no 6 situation before anything will get better.

[anonymous-user]

Cheib said:

We have great bowlers but SA batted better than we bowled at them.

Yep. We got to the top and got a bit complacent. SA were on the up and wanted it more. England will be back after this, hopefully with a bit more drive and focus and all the nonsense in the dressing room sorted out.

[Laurel Green]

I see Kevin Pietersen has been left out of England's World Twenty20 squad.

Linky

[Podie]

Laurel Green said:

I see Kevin Pietersen has been left out of England's World Twenty20 squad.

Linky

Shame.

Great player IMO.

Sadly a little hot heated, although I think the ECB failed to help KP and stop the whole thing from getting out of hand.

[spikeyhead]

Podie said:

Laurel Green said:

I see Kevin Pietersen has been left out of England's World Twenty20 squad.

Linky

Shame.

Great player IMO.

Sadly a little hot heated, although I think the ECB failed to help KP and stop the whole thing from getting out of hand.

I've managed many people over the years, and I'd rather have someone interesting than just wants to be a sheep, however there are limits to what is acceptable and I think that KP has gone way beyond those limits.

[Podie]

spikeyhead said:

Podie said:

Laurel Green said:

I see Kevin Pietersen has been left out of England's World Twenty20 squad.

Linky

Shame.

Great player IMO.

Sadly a little hot heated, although I think the ECB failed to help KP and stop the whole thing from getting out of hand.

I've managed many people over the years, and I'd rather have someone interesting than just wants to be a sheep, however there are limits to what is acceptable and I think that KP has gone way beyond those limits.

Agreed. However, my point is you could see it coming. The ECB should have realised this and dealt with it accordingly - when they had the chance. Failure to do so is poor management.

[spikeyhead]

Podie said:

Agreed. However, my point is you could see it coming. The ECB should have realised this and dealt with it accordingly - when they had the chance. Failure to do so is poor management.

We've no idea what has and hasn't been happening, except that it hasn't ended well. I suspect that the ECB should take some of the blame, but it may be only a few percent.

[Podie]

spikeyhead said:

Podie said:

Agreed. However, my point is you could see it coming. The ECB should have realised this and dealt with it accordingly - when they had the chance. Failure to do so is poor management.

We've no idea what has and hasn't been happening, except that it hasn't ended well. I suspect that the ECB should take some of the blame, but it may be only a few percent.

I'll agree that it hasn't ended well.

[anonymous-user]

spikeyhead said:

Podie said:

Laurel Green said:

I see Kevin Pietersen has been left out of England's World Twenty20 squad.

Linky

Shame.

Great player IMO.

Sadly a little hot heated, although I think the ECB failed to help KP and stop the whole thing from getting out of hand.

I've managed many people over the years, and I'd rather have someone interesting than just wants to be a sheep, however there are limits to what is acceptable and I think that KP has gone way beyond those limits.

Is KP still managed by his own management company? Hardly a great advert getting dropped for his behaviour.

[Cheib]

DJRC said:

Eh? They declared at 250 for 9 I think. We had a very gettable target, but the batting put 3 wickets down in quick tap style. The game was there to be won, with England's top order, it *should* have been won. Im strongly of the opinion a yr ago it would have been won.

Sorry I think you're wrong there. South Africa declared leaving us needing 253 in 39 overs. 6 an over is a big ask in test match cricket where you can bowl wide of the stumps, bowl bouncers and set deep fields.....which is why we opened with KP. I don't think it could be described as a winning position....after all SA declared they are not going to do that and put England in a winning position.

I can't remember England ever chasing a total like that.

[Vocal Minority]

Podie said:

Shame.

Great player IMO.

Sadly a little hot heated, although I think the ECB failed to help KP and stop the whole thing from getting out of hand.

The man is a grown up and not a child. He has to be accountable for his actions. He isn't an infant that doesn't know better.

A great bat, a game changer at his very best. However, I have never thought talent excuses being a tosser, and if he is causing so much friction in the changing room it is probably for the best

[Podie]

Vocal Minority said:

Podie said:

Shame.

Great player IMO.

Sadly a little hot heated, although I think the ECB failed to help KP and stop the whole thing from getting out of hand.

The man is a grown up and not a child. He has to be accountable for his actions. He isn't an infant that doesn't know better.

A great bat, a game changer at his very best. However, I have never thought talent excuses being a tosser, and if he is causing so much friction in the changing room it is probably for the best

Exceptional talents are often wired differently to the rest of us. That applies across many sports. Plenty of cricketers have done stupid stuff, but social media wasn't about to accelerate that stupidity.

[unrepentant]

Podie said:

Exceptional talents are often wired differently to the rest of us. That applies across many sports. Plenty of cricketers have done stupid stuff, but social media wasn't about to accelerate that stupidity.

KP reminds me a bit of LeBron James, he thinks he's bigger than the game. I think that the ECB have done the right thing in dropping him. It's not just this latest epidode, there have been others and then there's all the petulant "retiring" BS. Time to say thanks and goodbye and look to the future IMO.

[Podie]

unrepentant said:

Podie said:

Exceptional talents are often wired differently to the rest of us. That applies across many sports. Plenty of cricketers have done stupid stuff, but social media wasn't about to accelerate that stupidity.

KP reminds me a bit of LeBron James, he thinks he's bigger than the game. I think that the ECB have done the right thing in dropping him. It's not just this latest epidode, there have been others and then there's all the petulant "retiring" BS. Time to say thanks and goodbye and look to the future IMO.

Agreed, he needs winding in.

The point that I'm trying (and clearly failing) to make is that effective management should have nipped this behaviour in the bud a long time ago. Instead, it's been allowed to continue to the point where they have to drop him. The result? No one benefits. (Except perhaps the IPL )

[Long Drax]

Podie said:

unrepentant said:

Podie said:

Exceptional talents are often wired differently to the rest of us. That applies across many sports. Plenty of cricketers have done stupid stuff, but social media wasn't about to accelerate that stupidity.

KP reminds me a bit of LeBron James, he thinks he's bigger than the game. I think that the ECB have done the right thing in dropping him. It's not just this latest epidode, there have been others and then there's all the petulant "retiring" BS. Time to say thanks and goodbye and look to the future IMO.

Agreed, he needs winding in.

The point that I'm trying (and clearly failing) to make is that effective management should have nipped this behaviour in the bud a long time ago. Instead, it's been allowed to continue to the point where they have to drop him. The result? No one benefits. (Except perhaps the IPL )

Even if KP has no ECB contract, the IPL still has to get the approval of
the ECB for KP to play in the IPL tournament. This is what they they were
saying on TMS, anyway.

Edited by Long Drax on Tuesday 21st August 21:53

[Podie]

Long Drax said:

Even if KP has no ECB contract, the IPL still has to get the approval of
the ECB for KP to play in the IPL tournament. This is what they they were
saying on TMS, anyway.

Edited by Long Drax on Tuesday 21st August 21:53

Didn't know that.

[hornetrider]

Podie said:

Didn't know that.

Sounds like restraint of trade to me.

[London424]

The ECB are a joke...no consistency at all.

They did nothing about Swann's book or Broad and his involvement in the parody KP twitter account yet come down like a tonne of bricks on KP.

I'm not saying what KP did was right, but if you have rules about what you can and can't do, apply it to everyone equally.

[suthol]

Have you lot curled up in a fetal position in the corner and lost interest after your dazzling form in the tests.

The first one dayer is trying to start and it's looking like your lot will be saved by rain for the 2nd time in this tour.

[hornetrider]

Just started, 23 over game