New Lotus Airbag Steering Wheel.
Discussion
Started a new thread.
Ernie,
Great minds think alike. About 4 months ago I was working with Raid trying to get a Daytona designed for the Esprit. I Photoshopped the image below and submitted it to them. Note the Raid emblem and the silver horn buttons were gone.
The problem I ran into was twofold. First, there was obviously some licensing issues with using the Lotus logo. Second, they required a minimum of order of 50 wheels to make a custom production run. I told them with the limited production of the Esprit, there was no way we could get that many orders. I suspect that we can maybe get between 5 and 10 total (if we're lucky - since this is an airbag wheel it ain't exactly cheap).
Now I have to figure out the whole hub adapter issue. When Steve Feruggia bought his Raid wheel, he "coerced" Motoconcept to sell him a hub adapter without a wheel for a ton of money (over $300). I'm thinking of going along the route of something like the Grant hub adapter. Or maybe I'll just do the group buy and let everyone fend for themsleves and else figure out how to install it.
One thing is for sure, if I go ahead and do this, everyone will have to sign a waiver to release me from any legal responsibility. I will not assume the liability for providing a vehicle safety device and have someone try to sue me if it doesn't work as promised. I'm simply the facilitator of the purchase here. Nothing more, nothing less.
Any news on this is still a few weeks away and production of the wheel is very limited right now so be patient. Hey, you've already driven with that hideous GM wheel for a few years, you can wait a bit longer.
ErnestM said:
Actually - I was thinking maybe just have the emblem embossed onto the center (vis-a-vis the headrests and the airbag panel on the 2003/4 spec cars), but the colour one was easier to photoshop (30 seconds, yes!)
Ernie,
Great minds think alike. About 4 months ago I was working with Raid trying to get a Daytona designed for the Esprit. I Photoshopped the image below and submitted it to them. Note the Raid emblem and the silver horn buttons were gone.
The problem I ran into was twofold. First, there was obviously some licensing issues with using the Lotus logo. Second, they required a minimum of order of 50 wheels to make a custom production run. I told them with the limited production of the Esprit, there was no way we could get that many orders. I suspect that we can maybe get between 5 and 10 total (if we're lucky - since this is an airbag wheel it ain't exactly cheap).
Now I have to figure out the whole hub adapter issue. When Steve Feruggia bought his Raid wheel, he "coerced" Motoconcept to sell him a hub adapter without a wheel for a ton of money (over $300). I'm thinking of going along the route of something like the Grant hub adapter. Or maybe I'll just do the group buy and let everyone fend for themsleves and else figure out how to install it.
One thing is for sure, if I go ahead and do this, everyone will have to sign a waiver to release me from any legal responsibility. I will not assume the liability for providing a vehicle safety device and have someone try to sue me if it doesn't work as promised. I'm simply the facilitator of the purchase here. Nothing more, nothing less.
Any news on this is still a few weeks away and production of the wheel is very limited right now so be patient. Hey, you've already driven with that hideous GM wheel for a few years, you can wait a bit longer.
Arnie/Clyde can't help you out with the licensing issues? I mean it is for the enthusiasts. And certainly while we couldn't get 50 orders together, Lotus USA could order them, charge a little extra and resell them. They already do a waiver for the race-ecu so I can't see this being much different...
Just some thoughts...
ErnestM
edited to add: Personally I think RAID has the lion's share of potentially liability anyway. You could reduce your liability with a warning document...
Warning: If you use this wheel, you could die or become injured. However, you will look cooler than you look with the GM wheel
>> Edited by ErnestM on Thursday 16th October 19:04
Just some thoughts...
ErnestM
edited to add: Personally I think RAID has the lion's share of potentially liability anyway. You could reduce your liability with a warning document...
Warning: If you use this wheel, you could die or become injured. However, you will look cooler than you look with the GM wheel
>> Edited by ErnestM on Thursday 16th October 19:04
Go with the embossed leather, that has my vote. Also, let's see if Lotus can get involved with the wheel and provide and adapter. If they do, would legitimize the wheel and lower the cost of it. Will not just be an aftermarket add-on. Given this is the last year, and some of us, myself included would like to keep the car "original" this would be a winner with a wider audience. 20 years from now Lotus's involvement will mean it can still find a place in the Concours d'Elegance or something similar too!
Guys, I think you're being a little naive here. We are talking about an airbag wheel. It's a "safety" device and an "explosive" one at that. I can assure you that Lotus will not put their logo or stamp of approval and sign up for the liability of using this new wheel with all the Federal testing and the tons of money it would cost to pass DOT regulations. ANd lets not forget that the car is no longer being produced after next month. It ain't gonna happen. But that doesn't mean that you can't get one for your car through our other means.
ErnestM said:
Does RAID say the airbag will actually operate? I think that was the main concern before when others where looking at this.
If I wanted to go for "looks alone" I think that your current euro-spec wheel is much nicer looking, Karl.
ErnestM
The RAID wheel has a fully functional airbag with fully approved German certification (which means squat over here in the USA).
Regarding the looks, I think if you saw the wheel in person and felt it in your hands you would think it is much nicer. It has a thicker, chunkier feel. The diameter is also a bit smaller than the Momo/Lotus euro wheel, which in turn is already smaller than the Saturn/GM wheel. This means even more space for your thighs getting in and out. However, it's not as small as the Elise wheel, which IMHO is too small for the Esprit. And let's not forget that the RAID wheel is actually black. It's not that ugly grey which matches nothing else in your interior.
Here are a couple of thoughts I have had on the matter.
First, I won't put a non airbag in my S4. I don't want to reduce the safety of my vehicle. This could also become an issue should someone else drive it and get into an accident.
Now you mentioned the Elise wheel, but that most certainly will not be the wheel that comes on the US version next year correct? I assume that the current wheel doesn't have DOT approval being that it was only designed for the Euro market. So, I wonder what wheel will come on the US Elise? Maybe one that would be a nice addition on an Esprit? Also, who would be designing it for the US market Elise? Maybe a manufacturer that we could go through for one for the Esprits, assuming that the one they design for the Elise is to our liking. Maybe that is a question someone should pose to the Lotus guys. Also, I keep hearing that these airbags are deployed via an explosive charge. I thought they were deployed via compressed co2?
John
94 S4
http://24.25.100.254/
First, I won't put a non airbag in my S4. I don't want to reduce the safety of my vehicle. This could also become an issue should someone else drive it and get into an accident.
Now you mentioned the Elise wheel, but that most certainly will not be the wheel that comes on the US version next year correct? I assume that the current wheel doesn't have DOT approval being that it was only designed for the Euro market. So, I wonder what wheel will come on the US Elise? Maybe one that would be a nice addition on an Esprit? Also, who would be designing it for the US market Elise? Maybe a manufacturer that we could go through for one for the Esprits, assuming that the one they design for the Elise is to our liking. Maybe that is a question someone should pose to the Lotus guys. Also, I keep hearing that these airbags are deployed via an explosive charge. I thought they were deployed via compressed co2?
John
94 S4
http://24.25.100.254/
Techspy,
The non-USA Elise never had an airbag. The airbag wheel for the Federal Elise is a variant of the wheel made for the Opel Speedster. The diameter of the wheel is approx the same 300mm as the wheel on the Elise 111s. By comparison the standard GM/Saturn airbag wheel is about 365mm; the Euro-spec Momo/Lotus is 355mm and the Raid wheel is 340mm.
I don't know if you've ever driven an Elise, but the wheel is simply too small to use on the Esprit. It would look awkward, it would block the gauges even more than the other wheels, and it would increase steering effort considerably (which would affect the feel of the Esprit's steering negatively).
Ragarding the safety of your S4, remember that the airbag on your car was taken from the GM parts bin. It was originally designed in the 1980's and is a first-generation unit. There have been accidents where the only injuries incurred were due to the deployment of the airbag (someone on this list knows what I'm referring to).
The Esprit is a very safe car. I asked the CEO of Lotus about this a few months ago and to our knowledge, only one person has ever died in an Esprit accident. If this turned out to be true, it would be pretty impressive for a car that has been in production for 28 years.
Most importantly, remember that your seatbelt is the most effective safety device in your car (not counting your brakes and steering). No racecar has airbags and yet you see people walking out of 200mph wrecks every day. I know this is an over-simplification of the issue, but the point is they wouldn't be alive were they not strapped in by their belts.
The non-USA Elise never had an airbag. The airbag wheel for the Federal Elise is a variant of the wheel made for the Opel Speedster. The diameter of the wheel is approx the same 300mm as the wheel on the Elise 111s. By comparison the standard GM/Saturn airbag wheel is about 365mm; the Euro-spec Momo/Lotus is 355mm and the Raid wheel is 340mm.
I don't know if you've ever driven an Elise, but the wheel is simply too small to use on the Esprit. It would look awkward, it would block the gauges even more than the other wheels, and it would increase steering effort considerably (which would affect the feel of the Esprit's steering negatively).
Ragarding the safety of your S4, remember that the airbag on your car was taken from the GM parts bin. It was originally designed in the 1980's and is a first-generation unit. There have been accidents where the only injuries incurred were due to the deployment of the airbag (someone on this list knows what I'm referring to).
The Esprit is a very safe car. I asked the CEO of Lotus about this a few months ago and to our knowledge, only one person has ever died in an Esprit accident. If this turned out to be true, it would be pretty impressive for a car that has been in production for 28 years.
Most importantly, remember that your seatbelt is the most effective safety device in your car (not counting your brakes and steering). No racecar has airbags and yet you see people walking out of 200mph wrecks every day. I know this is an over-simplification of the issue, but the point is they wouldn't be alive were they not strapped in by their belts.
karlfranz said:
Ragarding the safety of your S4, remember that the airbag on your car was taken from the GM parts bin. It was originally designed in the 1980's and is a first-generation unit. There have been accidents where the only injuries incurred were due to the deployment of the airbag (someone on this list knows what I'm referring to).
...
Most importantly, remember that your seatbelt is the most effective safety device in your car (not counting your brakes and steering). No racecar has airbags and yet you see people walking out of 200mph wrecks every day. I know this is an over-simplification of the issue, but the point is they wouldn't be alive were they not strapped in by their belts.
Indeed,
I've been trying to find a switch or second generation airbag for our '90 SE.
If your driving position places your sternum 10" or less from the steering wheel you are at risk when driving a vehicle with a first gen airbag. The NHSTA now allows for the installation of an on/off switch. Unfortunately, my first attempt at approval was cut short because the Lotus VIN baffled our federal employees and they returned the form as an incorrect VIN. I may just disconnect the system. If I can figure out with 100% certainty how to do so without detonating the darn thing.
In any event, if you are 5'4" or shorter, I would suggest measuring how close you sit to the wheel and taking steps to protect yourself from the device the U.S. govt deemed necessary to protect you.
Bet you didn't know that airbags would not have been mandated if a sufficient part of the population were covered by seatbelt laws meeting certain minimums established by the Feds. Unfortunately, only one state passed such a law.
In the meantime, please buckle-up.
okc-esprit said:
<snip>
I may just disconnect the system. If I can figure out with 100% certainty how to do so without detonating the darn thing.
I figured out how to do this several years ago as well as how to disable the airbag warning light for the driver while leaving the passenger side active. I originally did this when adapting the euro-spec Momo/Lotus wheel to my Esprit. It's funny to see that now some folks even sell their steering wheel with the "kit" to disable the light. I should have got a patent on the darn thing
Instructions are on my web site.
Cheers,
kfm
www.espritfactfile.com
Well, I've been driving around with the new Raid wheel for a month now and I absolutely love the look and feel. Its the best mod Ive done to any of my cars. If you're in the NY area, feel free to stop by to check it out.
I just got an email earlier this week that the Daytona's are now in. They actually offered to swap one with my installed Freeway since I had been waiting so long. However, I decided that Im going to stay with the Freeway--just enough silver for my taste.
They also sent me a bunch of close-up pics (front back and sides). KFM, if I send them to you, can you host them?
When I bought the adapter, it looked like it too was manufactured by RAID (shipped in one of their boxes with their installation instructions). So if you can arrange a group buy of the wheels directly from Raid, they should be able to also supply you with the adapters as well (unless they have some type of exclusive with Motoconcept). If not, check with Claudius.
And yes, there are explosives in an airbag (not compressed air) which is why importation is highly regulated. Fedex and UPS wont even touch them within the States.
But trust me, its worth the hassle. Go for it!
Steve
[pic] www.fotango.com/p/eba00379713f00000001.jpg [/pic]
>> Edited by dasspoot on Monday 20th October 14:26
I just got an email earlier this week that the Daytona's are now in. They actually offered to swap one with my installed Freeway since I had been waiting so long. However, I decided that Im going to stay with the Freeway--just enough silver for my taste.
They also sent me a bunch of close-up pics (front back and sides). KFM, if I send them to you, can you host them?
When I bought the adapter, it looked like it too was manufactured by RAID (shipped in one of their boxes with their installation instructions). So if you can arrange a group buy of the wheels directly from Raid, they should be able to also supply you with the adapters as well (unless they have some type of exclusive with Motoconcept). If not, check with Claudius.
And yes, there are explosives in an airbag (not compressed air) which is why importation is highly regulated. Fedex and UPS wont even touch them within the States.
But trust me, its worth the hassle. Go for it!
Steve
[pic] www.fotango.com/p/eba00379713f00000001.jpg [/pic]
>> Edited by dasspoot on Monday 20th October 14:26
dasspoot said:
I just got an email earlier this week that the Daytona's are now in. They actually offered to swap one with my installed Freeway since I had been waiting so long. However, I decided that Im going to stay with the Freeway--just enough silver for my taste.
They also sent me a bunch of close-up pics (front back and sides). KFM, if I send them to you, can you host them?
When I bought the adapter, it looked like it too was manufactured by RAID (shipped in one of their boxes with their installation instructions). So if you can arrange a group buy of the wheels directly from Raid, they should be able to also supply you with the adapters as well (unless they have some type of exclusive with Motoconcept). If not, check with Claudius.
Hi Steve,
Like you, I have been dealing with Katja and Damian for over 6 months and it is through them (not Raid directly) that I would do a group buy. Katja also sent me those pics and I will posting them soon. It seems you and I have been leading parallel lives; I too have been wanting the Daytona for so long, but seeing the Freeway made me wonder if the Daytona would have too much silver. However she will be sending me the Daytona next week so I will be able to compare first hand. I will say I was surprised the the Freeway's silver does not surround the rim.
More importantly, you have a vital piece of information that I was not privy to and could be of great benefit to all. If indeed the adapter was from Raid, is there any possible way that you can find out the part number? This would greatly simplify the install for other people. The alternate route is much more involved. Maybe the box or the adapter itself has the part number. I'd also be curious to know if MotoConcept or the folks who installed the wheel for you had to modify the adapter in any way. Any info you can provide me would be beneficial. You can email me privately if you prefer: karlfranz@netzero.net
Cheers.
Karl, I just checked the paperwork I received with both the wheel and the adapter. There is no P/N in the literature for the adapter. Im going from memory now, but Im pretty certain there were no stampings or stickers with the P/N on the adapter itself. Sorry.
As Im sure you did, I emailed RAID directly several times and no reply about an adapter. They only said that their wheels are 'not legal for the US'.
BTW, I too was surprised that the silver trim was only on the front half of the wheel. It actually works very well (all black when you are looking at the car from the front through the windshield matching the black leather dash)
Good luck!
Steve
As Im sure you did, I emailed RAID directly several times and no reply about an adapter. They only said that their wheels are 'not legal for the US'.
BTW, I too was surprised that the silver trim was only on the front half of the wheel. It actually works very well (all black when you are looking at the car from the front through the windshield matching the black leather dash)
Good luck!
Steve
I changed out my wheel to a non-airbag unit and added 6 point seat belts. They can be a hassle but I have crashed race cars at speed and walked away. Just go for belts and get any wheel you want. My wheel is here:
www.lotusespritworld.co.uk/EOwners/dan.html
Dan L.
97 USA spec, Yellow!
www.lotusespritworld.co.uk/EOwners/dan.html
Dan L.
97 USA spec, Yellow!
Bump.
For those who have asked privately: Work on the new steering wheel continues, albeit slowly. Jim Knowles and I are looking into having a custom or semi-custom hub adapter fabricated. I got some of the parts for prototyping in already, but I'm still waiting for my next wheel to get here from Germany. I expect it to get here in the next week or so.
I'm sorry this is such a slow process, but I can't make it go any faster. Wheel production and distribution from Raid is slow and shipping is even slower. I will say that I've received a few messages expressing interest. Whether those translate into actual orders will remain to be seen.
More details will be posted when I get any updates.
For those who have asked privately: Work on the new steering wheel continues, albeit slowly. Jim Knowles and I are looking into having a custom or semi-custom hub adapter fabricated. I got some of the parts for prototyping in already, but I'm still waiting for my next wheel to get here from Germany. I expect it to get here in the next week or so.
I'm sorry this is such a slow process, but I can't make it go any faster. Wheel production and distribution from Raid is slow and shipping is even slower. I will say that I've received a few messages expressing interest. Whether those translate into actual orders will remain to be seen.
More details will be posted when I get any updates.
Gassing Station | Esprit | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff