UK bike sales plummet

[YorkshireStu]

I'd be quite happy if private car ownership was banned tomorrow.

I've lived without using a car when I was living part-time in Amsterdam, and last year in the UK I added the princely sum total of about 1000 miles to my car.

More people on bikes with the required infrastructure to support that would be my dream.

But...millions of years away from that in the UK!

[BunkMoreland]

272BHP said:

I like to think that the e-bike sector suggests that this is happening but I am unsure. The vast majority of riders I see round my way who ride for transport reasons are kids on their way to school and back.

What I will say is that I don't see many people in eBikes. (I'm not going to include the Deliveroo riders here with their shonky motor attached to a Carrera setup) But I do see LOADS of people of different demographics on eScooters.

And I fear that inevitably after a while, when the batteries start to die and the range shrinks and charging takes longer. They'll be thrown in sheds and that will be that.

[YorkshireStu]

BunkMoreland said:

What I will say is that I don't see many people in eBikes. (I'm not going to include the Deliveroo riders here with their shonky motor attached to a Carrera setup) But I do see LOADS of people of different demographics on eScooters.

And I fear that inevitably after a while, when the batteries start to die and the range shrinks and charging takes longer. They'll be thrown in sheds and that will be that.

I see cyclists on e-bikes pretty much everyday. It used to be rare but now commonplace.

[emicen]

The sole reason I got my ebike was commuting and such activities. Reduced last year’s car mileage by nearly 1,000 miles.

My first C2W analogue road bike did get used for the odd commute (once furlough and work from home wound down so I was actually in the office). With no shower at the office end, some electric assistance is nigh on a necessity.

It also gets used for small shop runs, midweek top ups or a few items type shops.

I’m sure a cargo bike would make the full weekly shop doable, but it wouldn’t be any use at all for my commute. I’ve never actually seen a cargo bike in the wild, not even in Glasgow or Edinburgh, never mind in the middle grounds.

Also worth noting I’ve done 2 commutes by bike this year and the rest of the time it’s been in no danger of happening. Lashing rain in to a 20mph+ headwind, wouldn’t even do it on a motorbike

[BobSaunders]

Would cycle more if i knew my bike would be still there when i returned, and if there was a guarantee that i would not get run over whilst cycling.

[272BHP]

BobSaunders said:

Would cycle more if i knew my bike would be still there when i returned, and if there was a guarantee that i would not get run over whilst cycling.

Two very good reasons for sure.

One of the reasons I probably will not buy a bike over £1000 is that they are more targetable for thieves. A good city bike needs to be cheap enough to lock up and forget.

A 1K bike that has already given a few years use can effectively be written off without too many tears. A 3K bike that gets nicked a couple of months into ownership is a different matter.

[Craikeybaby]

Being a car guy, and knowing how bad short urban journeys are for my car, is one of the reasons I ride wherever possible for short local trips. The fact it is also much quicker doesn't hurt either. However, it is so frustrating that any attempt by the local council to put in any cycle infrastructure is met by complaints that it is anti-driver.

[Julian Scott]

irc said:

Julian Scott said:

And can you imagine the anti-cycling mob's moaning?

Don't see why. Where is the outrage over all the EV subsidies?

Errr...on just about every EV thread on here? And the anti-cycling movement is at least as vocal as the anti-EV, if not substantially more so.

[Julian Scott]

nickfrog said:

Julian Scott said:

or how many people gave just started to cycle because of it.

So why not give to same tax break on gym membership for instance? The main thing is the health benefit and the reduced burden on the NHS.

And why is it restricted to PAYE? After all self employed workers pay tax too and therefore fiscally subsidise those who get a bike on the scheme and never intend to cycle to work yet are not allowed to get the benefits themselves even if they did intend to cycle to work.

I knew my view on this was going to be unpopular

I agree....but it's got to be manageable somehow. Making gym memberships VAT free would be fantastic, but it would be an open can or worms.

...plus, when it comes to healthcare, this country doesn't do 'prevention' very well!

[Julian Scott]

BunkMoreland said:

Julian Scott said:

irc said:

Removing VAT on bikes up to say £1500 would be better. Available to everyone not jusy the working who hsve an employer in the scheme.

And can you imagine the anti-cycling mob's moaning?

Then we should also remove the VAT on all new cars under £1500 as well to make it fair

Very good.

[tertius]

And presumably remove VAT on all sports equipment ... no obvious reason to make cycling a special case.

Indeed it might make an interesting PhD study whether the savings for the NHS from improved fitness thanks to cycling are greater or smaller than the costs to the NHS from cycling accidents and injuries.

[272BHP]

tertius said:

And presumably remove VAT on all sports equipment ... no obvious reason to make cycling a special case.

Indeed it might make an interesting PhD study whether the savings for the NHS from improved fitness thanks to cycling are greater or smaller than the costs to the NHS from cycling accidents and injuries.

To be honest I think it will make minimal difference to the fitness of the nation whatever tax breaks are made.

Those who are interested in health and fitness are already doing it, those who aren't might dabble for a few weeks but will quickly fall back into old habits.

Remember, during the start of Covid not even the fear of death itself could get many over 40s to put their trainers on or get on their bike and stay on it.

[tertius]

272BHP said:

tertius said:

And presumably remove VAT on all sports equipment ... no obvious reason to make cycling a special case.

Indeed it might make an interesting PhD study whether the savings for the NHS from improved fitness thanks to cycling are greater or smaller than the costs to the NHS from cycling accidents and injuries.

To be honest I think it will make minimal difference to the fitness of the nation whatever tax breaks are made.

Those who are interested in health and fitness are already doing it, those who aren't might dabble for a few weeks but will quickly fall back into old habits.

Remember, during the start of Covid not even the fear of death itself could get many over 40s to put their trainers on or get on their bike and stay on it.

I think I agree with you - I was merely responding to the arguments made here about reducing VAT on bikes. If we really believe reducing VAT will make a difference to uptake it should be done across the board, not just for one sport.

[z4RRSchris]

Julian Scott said:

irc said:

Julian Scott said:

And can you imagine the anti-cycling mob's moaning?

Don't see why. Where is the outrage over all the EV subsidies?

Errr...on just about every EV thread on here? And the anti-cycling movement is at least as vocal as the anti-EV, if not substantially more so.

ive got an EV through work and 4 bikes so far. got to keep your tax bill down somehow

[boyse7en]

tertius said:

I think I agree with you - I was merely responding to the arguments made here about reducing VAT on bikes. If we really believe reducing VAT will make a difference to uptake it should be done across the board, not just for one sport.

But a bike, in the context of removing VAT from it, is not sports equipment, it is an emissions-free transport device. So there is no need to require the same financial largesse to be extended to golf clubs and snooker cues.

[tertius]

boyse7en said:

tertius said:

I think I agree with you - I was merely responding to the arguments made here about reducing VAT on bikes. If we really believe reducing VAT will make a difference to uptake it should be done across the board, not just for one sport.

But a bike, in the context of removing VAT from it, is not sports equipment, it is an emissions-free transport device. So there is no need to require the same financial largesse to be extended to golf clubs and snooker cues.

But that is a completely different argument from the one I was responding to, which was that bike sales should be VAT free due to the positive health impact, and the consequential benefits for the NHS.

As an emissions-free transport device it is already exempt from Vehicle Excise Duty, which is now primarily emissions based, so I am not sure that is an argument for it also being VAT-free.

[vaud]

Orange Mountain Bikes and P Bairstow have gone into adminstration.

https://www.consultancy.uk/news/36368/bdo-selected...

Not a cyclist these days but the Orange frame was the first mountain bike that I coveted.

[Craikeybaby]

Sad times, hopefully they find a buyer who will be able to keep the brand going.

[thepritch]

YorkshireStu said:

I'd be quite happy if private car ownership was banned tomorrow.

I've lived without using a car when I was living part-time in Amsterdam, and last year in the UK I added the princely sum total of about 1000 miles to my car.

More people on bikes with the required infrastructure to support that would be my dream.

But...millions of years away from that in the UK!

I’m with you on the ambition, too many cars (as we currently know them) and shocking public transport infrastructure in the uk. I know it was a somewhat flippant comment about the car ban, but there are a good proportion of society where this just isn’t feasible even if the will or desire is there. Where we live, it would be impossible to live here without a car - and that’s me saying that as a rather enthused cyclist who loves to ride. An ebike wouldn’t help. We’re not that unique.

How did you find Amsterdam? I’m obsessed with trying to understand how they got to where they are, and also wonder, why is it people seemingly get on their bikes (over using the car) in the depths of winter? How did they remove the barriers to make it an actual preferable mode of transport?

[TGCOTF-dewey]

thepritch said:

I’m with you on the ambition, too many cars (as we currently know them) and shocking public transport infrastructure in the uk. I know it was a somewhat flippant comment about the car ban, but there are a good proportion of society where this just isn’t feasible even if the will or desire is there. Where we live, it would be impossible to live here without a car - and that’s me saying that as a rather enthused cyclist who loves to ride. An ebike wouldn’t help. We’re not that unique.

How did you find Amsterdam? I’m obsessed with trying to understand how they got to where they are, and also wonder, why is it people seemingly get on their bikes (over using the car) in the depths of winter? How did they remove the barriers to make it an actual preferable mode of transport?

Denmark - Copenhagen - is the same. Huge numbers commuting by bike.

Being very flat helps, but there's a totally different car vs bike relationship than here.

The Danes and the Dutch IME are just nicer and more respectful of each other. Here... Well not so much.