Anti-cyclist comments
Discussion
It's generally based on ignorance and having small man parts.
There is also always, always a reference to lycra, which is a bit pervy and somewhat reflective of the poster.
It is very frustrating to see so many rabid, bile spitting anti-cyclists on PH, considering that there are a number of serious cyclists on here, and of course liking cars and enjoying cycling are not mutually exclusive. In fact, there are many aspects of both hobbies that are similar.
I wonder whether a firmer stance could be taken by mods? Or is that too far towards censure?
O/T - nice to meet you yesterday Paul, I will say hello next time I accidentally stalk you!
There is also always, always a reference to lycra, which is a bit pervy and somewhat reflective of the poster.
It is very frustrating to see so many rabid, bile spitting anti-cyclists on PH, considering that there are a number of serious cyclists on here, and of course liking cars and enjoying cycling are not mutually exclusive. In fact, there are many aspects of both hobbies that are similar.
I wonder whether a firmer stance could be taken by mods? Or is that too far towards censure?
O/T - nice to meet you yesterday Paul, I will say hello next time I accidentally stalk you!
Have certainly experience the fabled game that bus drivers play ,of sweeping past you as close as possible without actually hitting you. I guess that as they arent going that fast you really ought to be able to avoid them but its still pretty alarming. Most of the time they arent even going any faster than you, infact they are quite often holding me up! However they do quite often make a useful windbreak for slipstreaming purposes.
The thing that frustrates me the most when cycling is when i've laboured to the top of a steep hill and am just about to head flat out down the other side, only for someone to overtake me in a flap that they might be held up by a cyclist - often driving some Korean "white goods" vehicle. What follows however is that they then proceed to hold me up for the duration of the descent riding their brakes the whole way, ruining the bit i've looked forward to all the way up the hill, grrr.
I think that the truth is that nutters are to be found on both sides of the divide.
Difference is that a nutter on a cycle can do no more than superficial damage to an inatimate object, a derranged driver, of suitably low IQ, is capable of inflicting some quite substantial damage to another person.
I do wonder, especially when its a fully loaded MPV that decides to carry out some suitably ill thought out and bad tempered overtake on me, just how they would feel if someone was behaving quite so irresponsibly toward one of their precious brood, who will no doubt possess a cycle at some point....
Patiance and tolerance is whats required from all road users, sadly in this age of selfishness and double standards its getting less and less common. Militant cyclists are no better than the militant drivers in my opinion and as a keen cyclist i find them just as irritating and self rightous.
The thing that frustrates me the most when cycling is when i've laboured to the top of a steep hill and am just about to head flat out down the other side, only for someone to overtake me in a flap that they might be held up by a cyclist - often driving some Korean "white goods" vehicle. What follows however is that they then proceed to hold me up for the duration of the descent riding their brakes the whole way, ruining the bit i've looked forward to all the way up the hill, grrr.
I think that the truth is that nutters are to be found on both sides of the divide.
Difference is that a nutter on a cycle can do no more than superficial damage to an inatimate object, a derranged driver, of suitably low IQ, is capable of inflicting some quite substantial damage to another person.
I do wonder, especially when its a fully loaded MPV that decides to carry out some suitably ill thought out and bad tempered overtake on me, just how they would feel if someone was behaving quite so irresponsibly toward one of their precious brood, who will no doubt possess a cycle at some point....
Patiance and tolerance is whats required from all road users, sadly in this age of selfishness and double standards its getting less and less common. Militant cyclists are no better than the militant drivers in my opinion and as a keen cyclist i find them just as irritating and self rightous.
Getragdogleg said:
I have been spat at and had my door kicked by such individuals for simply being in their general area.
Are you 100% that you did nothing that could have caused such a reaction? Not that there is any excuse, at all, for the above, but it would appear rather odd if you were picked completely at random. I would estimate that in 95% of near-misses I have with cars, the driver is unaware (or has not considered) that I have been put at risk or needed to take avoiding action. To a degree, that's fine because we all make mistakes, but very rarely have I been able to draw a driver's attention to their error without being met with instant abuse (in fact, only twice that I can recall).The other 5% of near misses are deliberate, and it's these drivers (a number of whom appear to be behing keyboards on PH!) who are the most dangerous.
Raoul Duke said:
Difference is that a nutter on a cycle can do no more than superficial damage to an inatimate object,
I'm sorry but that's just not true. You can dent a panel, smash of a mirror, all sorts. I once saw some boke who'd been knocked to the floor in a low speed collision with a van put his SPD shoes to good use and kick off the vans bumper.
The lack of insurance and the fact that most people will just say, "what, he hit me, it's his fault but don't worry, I'm not going to take this further" is something that realistically can't be helped.
The one area I'm still not sure on myself is traffic lights.
I've not counted them, but there are at least a couple of dozen sets on my commute, if not more.
Some of these are hoofing great junctions where you'd need a death wish to do anything other than wait for a green light. Others are pedestrian crossings which are almost invariably very busy, so again one to obey without a second thought.
Where I'm less sure is on the etiquette of some of the others. What, for example, would people do on approaching a pedestrian crossing at red if there isn't a pedestrian within 20 yards of the crossing in any direction? If I'm in the car, then I'd sit at the light, frustrating though it might be. With the added effort required to get a bike back up to speed and all the other ways in which a pushbike differs from a car, I'd generally be inclined to run through it, as I can't see what harm it can possibly do to anybody.
Likewise, there are a couple of junctions where I'm on the top of a T junction which has a cycle lane running along it. Cars coming on from the leg of the T aren't going into the cycle lane, so again does it do any harm to go through the lights?
Then there's the third type of junction, such as the crossroads between Cornwall Road and The Cut next to the Old Vic theatre in Waterloo which seem to spend half their time just sitting on red for absolutely everybody! I'm really not sure what to make of those!
So, what do people think?
I've not counted them, but there are at least a couple of dozen sets on my commute, if not more.
Some of these are hoofing great junctions where you'd need a death wish to do anything other than wait for a green light. Others are pedestrian crossings which are almost invariably very busy, so again one to obey without a second thought.
Where I'm less sure is on the etiquette of some of the others. What, for example, would people do on approaching a pedestrian crossing at red if there isn't a pedestrian within 20 yards of the crossing in any direction? If I'm in the car, then I'd sit at the light, frustrating though it might be. With the added effort required to get a bike back up to speed and all the other ways in which a pushbike differs from a car, I'd generally be inclined to run through it, as I can't see what harm it can possibly do to anybody.
Likewise, there are a couple of junctions where I'm on the top of a T junction which has a cycle lane running along it. Cars coming on from the leg of the T aren't going into the cycle lane, so again does it do any harm to go through the lights?
Then there's the third type of junction, such as the crossroads between Cornwall Road and The Cut next to the Old Vic theatre in Waterloo which seem to spend half their time just sitting on red for absolutely everybody! I'm really not sure what to make of those!
So, what do people think?
I can't take the anti-cyclist threads seriously any more. The level of stupidity on display is just too high to even think about a sensible discussion. Only usefull for baiting and winding up the mongs.
In terms of real-life abuse of cyclists, I have a theory which I'll call The Food Chain.
The Food Chain goes something like pedestrian<cyclist<scooter<motorbike<car<4x4<truck. As long as the natural order of The Food Chain is obeyed, everyones happy. As soon as a cyclist places themselves higher in The Chain than a car, then the natural order has been disturbed, and MUST BE CORRECTED.
Hence the car that HAS to overtake the cyclist, even though they immediately have to slow down to turn left (and, by definition, where cyclists don't cede to pedestrians). Or the resentment when a cyclist filters through stationary traffic, or uses a bike lane to "beat" the cars.
I don't think you can change this behaviour, you just need to be aware of it.
In terms of real-life abuse of cyclists, I have a theory which I'll call The Food Chain.
The Food Chain goes something like pedestrian<cyclist<scooter<motorbike<car<4x4<truck. As long as the natural order of The Food Chain is obeyed, everyones happy. As soon as a cyclist places themselves higher in The Chain than a car, then the natural order has been disturbed, and MUST BE CORRECTED.
Hence the car that HAS to overtake the cyclist, even though they immediately have to slow down to turn left (and, by definition, where cyclists don't cede to pedestrians). Or the resentment when a cyclist filters through stationary traffic, or uses a bike lane to "beat" the cars.
I don't think you can change this behaviour, you just need to be aware of it.
Kermit power said:
The one area I'm still not sure on myself is traffic lights.
I've not counted them, but there are at least a couple of dozen sets on my commute, if not more.
Some of these are hoofing great junctions where you'd need a death wish to do anything other than wait for a green light. Others are pedestrian crossings which are almost invariably very busy, so again one to obey without a second thought.
Where I'm less sure is on the etiquette of some of the others. What, for example, would people do on approaching a pedestrian crossing at red if there isn't a pedestrian within 20 yards of the crossing in any direction? If I'm in the car, then I'd sit at the light, frustrating though it might be. With the added effort required to get a bike back up to speed and all the other ways in which a pushbike differs from a car, I'd generally be inclined to run through it, as I can't see what harm it can possibly do to anybody.
Likewise, there are a couple of junctions where I'm on the top of a T junction which has a cycle lane running along it. Cars coming on from the leg of the T aren't going into the cycle lane, so again does it do any harm to go through the lights?
Then there's the third type of junction, such as the crossroads between Cornwall Road and The Cut next to the Old Vic theatre in Waterloo which seem to spend half their time just sitting on red for absolutely everybody! I'm really not sure what to make of those!
So, what do people think?
Without question, if you'd stop in a car, stop on a bike. Please. There are a number of reasons, but the top of the list is that, for cyclists to claim their place on the road legitmately, there has to be obedience of the laws of the road. if you don't want to obey the laws, don't chose to go on the road (and, for the avoidance of doubt, I don't mean a few MPH on the speedo). How can cyclists possibly critcise drivers for not passing properly, not checking mirrors, etc etc if so many cyclists decide that red lights don't apply to them?I've not counted them, but there are at least a couple of dozen sets on my commute, if not more.
Some of these are hoofing great junctions where you'd need a death wish to do anything other than wait for a green light. Others are pedestrian crossings which are almost invariably very busy, so again one to obey without a second thought.
Where I'm less sure is on the etiquette of some of the others. What, for example, would people do on approaching a pedestrian crossing at red if there isn't a pedestrian within 20 yards of the crossing in any direction? If I'm in the car, then I'd sit at the light, frustrating though it might be. With the added effort required to get a bike back up to speed and all the other ways in which a pushbike differs from a car, I'd generally be inclined to run through it, as I can't see what harm it can possibly do to anybody.
Likewise, there are a couple of junctions where I'm on the top of a T junction which has a cycle lane running along it. Cars coming on from the leg of the T aren't going into the cycle lane, so again does it do any harm to go through the lights?
Then there's the third type of junction, such as the crossroads between Cornwall Road and The Cut next to the Old Vic theatre in Waterloo which seem to spend half their time just sitting on red for absolutely everybody! I'm really not sure what to make of those!
So, what do people think?
And, as you will have seen on numerous threads on PH, one of the favourite cyclist bashing criticisms is that "they all run red lights". Why give knuckle dragging morons an extra stick to beat the "cycling community" with? Why make it any easier to justify abuse of cyclists (particularly when, in extreme cases, such abuse is up to and including running cyclists off the road)? We can easily defent the insurance, tax, licence stupidity. But running red lights cannot be so easily defended, and, worse of all, has a significant element of truth to it.
Finally, it's dangerous and bad manners. I've been hit twice by cyclists running red lights. I also spend most of my morning and evening commute passing and re-passing slow people who jump red lights. That's frustrating and annoying, not to mention dangerous.
donfisher said:
It's just common sense. You just need to keep an eye out for the Police and make sure sensibly going through the odd red here and there doesn't escalate into recklessly taking the p1ss everywhere and endangering yourself and others.
Sorry guys but as a cyclist and a motorist myself there is no excuse for going through a red. If you want to use the road (irrespective of the insurance issue) you should obey the laws of the road. I have seen pedestrians hit by cyclists going through reds claiming not to have seen them, its not pretty sight 
The lights are there for ALL road users, not just cars...
As for undertaking - are we talking on the path or road? If Ive just passed a cyclist I tend to move to the centre of the road if the traffic builds up as I know they will catch up sometime!
Some car drivers have such poor road positioning that its impossible to undertake other than riding on the kerb. Though you do feel exposed to oncoming traffic when overtaking queuing vehicles.
Ive had a couple of instances where on clear roads cars have almost clipped me when passing, even when no traffic is coming the other way. Im sure if it were their partner/child/friend then the gap would be considerably greater. Again goes back to people having no respect for others or their space.
As for undertaking - are we talking on the path or road? If Ive just passed a cyclist I tend to move to the centre of the road if the traffic builds up as I know they will catch up sometime!
Some car drivers have such poor road positioning that its impossible to undertake other than riding on the kerb. Though you do feel exposed to oncoming traffic when overtaking queuing vehicles.
Ive had a couple of instances where on clear roads cars have almost clipped me when passing, even when no traffic is coming the other way. Im sure if it were their partner/child/friend then the gap would be considerably greater. Again goes back to people having no respect for others or their space.
Simple fact is that MOST cyclists will:
a) ride more than one abreast even ifthere is traffic on the road, creating an obstruction
b) go through red lights
c) Ride on paths that are clearly marked 'no cycling'. It's simply incredible that the majority think the black bicycle on white background surrounded by a red line indicates a cycle path. When pointed out that the blue circle actually means this, they simply say ok, thanks and carry on cyclying. I have personal experience of this over a number of years. The worst are the adults, typically with expensive bikes and all the lycra gear, they are the most arrogant and couldn't give a stuff about anyone else whatsoever.
They also tend to have little or no traffic/hazard awareness.
No sympathies from here until the majority learn that they are on an ifrastructure largely paid by other road users. Until they start to seriously contribute and obey regulations they deserve all that they seem to get.
a) ride more than one abreast even ifthere is traffic on the road, creating an obstruction
b) go through red lights
c) Ride on paths that are clearly marked 'no cycling'. It's simply incredible that the majority think the black bicycle on white background surrounded by a red line indicates a cycle path. When pointed out that the blue circle actually means this, they simply say ok, thanks and carry on cyclying. I have personal experience of this over a number of years. The worst are the adults, typically with expensive bikes and all the lycra gear, they are the most arrogant and couldn't give a stuff about anyone else whatsoever.
They also tend to have little or no traffic/hazard awareness.
No sympathies from here until the majority learn that they are on an ifrastructure largely paid by other road users. Until they start to seriously contribute and obey regulations they deserve all that they seem to get.
will_ said:
Without question, if you'd stop in a car, stop on a bike. Please. There are a number of reasons, but the top of the list is that, for cyclists to claim their place on the road legitmately, there has to be obedience of the laws of the road. if you don't want to obey the laws, don't chose to go on the road (and, for the avoidance of doubt, I don't mean a few MPH on the speedo).
So what you're saying is that drivers can make a judgement on whether driving at 35 in a 30 is safe or not, but a cyclist can't make the same judgement about going across an empty pedestrian crossing whilst the light is red?Until you accept that either all rules apply to both or no rules apply, your position in this debate is simple untenable.
king idiot.Silver993tt said:
No sympathies from here until the majority learn that they are on an ifrastructure largely paid by other road users. Until they start to seriously contribute and obey regulations they deserve all that they seem to get.
Eh?The infrastructure is paid by council tax.
If you live in a 10 bedroom mansion and cycle to work, you pay for more road upkeep than the guy in a 3 bed flat with 5 cars paying VED.
You do know this don't you?
ewenm said:
Silver993tt said:
they are on an ifrastructure largely paid by other road users.
as much as you like but cyclists will always come off worse for their actions on the road.I ride a bike but never take any liberties like the majority that I see.
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