Licence or ban cycling in London
Discussion
HairyMaclary said:
Does yours have all the ally luggage on it?
Most of the GSs I see going through London are in full Thatcharleyboormanisathoroughlydecentbloke spec. They lumber along, too wide to filter and have to stop in-between lanes to considerately knacker everyone else's chance to move into the ASL. Most of them would be better off in a car IME, definitely warmer at this time of year though they'd probably miss the chance to strut through the office in leathers holding their helmets. Yipper said:
Cycling is by far the most dangerous form of mass-transport. It causes many unneccesary road deaths and irreversibly damages the male reproductive system. It is a mystery that more countries or authorities do not license, restrict more, or ban it.
Here's some facts for your bulls
thttps://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
2013
Fatalities on the Roads of the UK
Car Occupant 785
Cyclist 109
Just for balance
Pedestrian deaths 398
Lets ban the one that cause the most deaths. Would be a real winner.
grumpy52 said:
... aviod truck jobs...
Most of my contact with them involves them riding unchecked into the mirrors on my vehicles and not one has ever apologised or checked if they have caused damage.
How tall are these cyclists that keep smacking into (and apparently destroying) the mirrors on a HGV? Most of my contact with them involves them riding unchecked into the mirrors on my vehicles and not one has ever apologised or checked if they have caused damage.
I suspect this doesn't happen nearly as much as you'd like us to believe
Anyway.
https://twitter.com/BoxbikeLondon/status/818469429...
Put this lot in Cars instead of on their bike. See how the capital works then!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It happens surprisingly rarely on my route, possibly because, as a Cycle Superhighway for most of it, there are so many cyclists that they all assume there will be another cyclist outside them before pulling out.The only other significant issue I've experienced is cars cutting left across bikes to go down Rookery Row on Clapham Common, but that's easily fixed by pulling out of the bike lane and into the first traffic lane for 100 yards or so before the turning. I once had a van driver wind down his window at the traffic lights after the turn to have a go at me about not being in the bike lane. I explained why I wasn't at that particular point and thought about it for a couple of seconds then just said "oh, ok, I guess I'd probably do the same then!"
donfisher said:
HairyMaclary said:
Does yours have all the ally luggage on it?
Most of the GSs I see going through London are in full Thatcharleyboormanisathoroughlydecentbloke spec. They lumber along, too wide to filter and have to stop in-between lanes to considerately knacker everyone else's chance to move into the ASL. Most of them would be better off in a car IME, definitely warmer at this time of year though they'd probably miss the chance to strut through the office in leathers holding their helmets. A500leroy said:
Whilst I agree everyone has the potential to be a Muppet on the road, the one thing that is different is cyclists have no insurance.
When a car/lory/bus driver gets it wrong and takes out a pedestrian/cyclist his insurance will cover the accident.
When a cyclist takes out a pedestrian ( which would hurt) or damages a vehicle when they misjudge something nothing happens!
That's the only change that really needs to happen ( oh and a bit of courtesy from all parties)
Not bothered about all the uninsured drivers then? 1 million-ishWhen a car/lory/bus driver gets it wrong and takes out a pedestrian/cyclist his insurance will cover the accident.
When a cyclist takes out a pedestrian ( which would hurt) or damages a vehicle when they misjudge something nothing happens!
That's the only change that really needs to happen ( oh and a bit of courtesy from all parties)
Or the number of pedestrians mown down by cars while walking on the pavement? 50-ish a year
Sounds like two far bigger problems.
Sadly it will take another 50 years to repair the damage done by successive governments and media putting the motorist at the top of the road user tree! Having said that, it will take successive governments to buy in and even then I don't think we'll ever enjoy the level of investment that our European cousins have seen in the past.
Unfortunately our very British obsession with monetising everything meant that we were never going to invest heavily in padestrian infrastructure when motoring has been such a huge cash cow in terms of tax revenue alone!
Unfortunately our very British obsession with monetising everything meant that we were never going to invest heavily in padestrian infrastructure when motoring has been such a huge cash cow in terms of tax revenue alone!
And again on the insurance topic - the premiums we pay, averaging many hundreds but going into thousands for younger drivers, are determined largely by the cost of insuring drivers. If we all did a really good job our premiums would be very low, but I imagine insurance cos fork out millions a year and thus the premiums have to be more than that.
It's interesting that drivers demand that cyclists should insure themselves just in case they cost us a few quid, yet ignore the fact that as motorists we cost one another personally tens of thousands of pounds over a lifetimes driving.
Not to mention the £40 a year whiplash claims are being said to cost, the UK being the whiplash capital of the world.
It's interesting that drivers demand that cyclists should insure themselves just in case they cost us a few quid, yet ignore the fact that as motorists we cost one another personally tens of thousands of pounds over a lifetimes driving.
Not to mention the £40 a year whiplash claims are being said to cost, the UK being the whiplash capital of the world.
J4CKO said:
Because it is the best way to get around, no pollution and cyclists can't do what they want, some do but so do some drivers, and some motorcyclists.
It really isn't, there's very little spare/free bike parking for starters, and theft is a massive problem. Plus you arrive at work/home smelling like a tramp.MarshPhantom said:
It really isn't, there's very little spare/free bike parking for starters, and theft is a massive problem. Plus you arrive at work/home smelling like a tramp.
I spent a few days in the Netherlands and Germany last year and noticed not a drop of BO despite being sat amongst so many cyclists at every restaurant, bar or cafe etc, so I think this is a myth.In fact in Germany I couldn't help but notice how utterly stunning the female cyclists were, it was that lovely spell of hot weather we had back in September and all the girls were riding with their skirts hitched right up (and I do mean right up) getting the last of the sun on their legs. Incredible.
It does have to be said I guess, British cyclists do dress completely differently from just about every other cyclist on the continent. Maybe that's where the sweat comes from?
MarshPhantom said:
It really isn't, there's very little spare/free bike parking for starters, and theft is a massive problem. Plus you arrive at work/home smelling like a tramp.
There's very little spare/free car parking in central London either, and there are more cars stolen than bicycles as well, not to mention theft from cars. As for smelling like a tramp, what on Earth are you on about?MarshPhantom said:
It really isn't, there's very little spare/free bike parking for starters, and theft is a massive problem. Plus you arrive at work/home smelling like a tramp.
Many many many businesses in London have showers. And if not there are places like H2 Bike that cater for people who want to cycle and don't have a shower on site.Theft is obviously an issue, but again, many places have spots for bike parking, and if not, then places like the one I mention cater for that too.
I work with quite a few people who ride shorter distances under 5 miles (I'm 16 miles each way, and shower) and I've never noticed a problem, they're men too.
Anyway, I think anyone trying to argue it isn't one of the quickest and most sustainable ways to get round a city like London has to be of limited intelligence. My 16 miles takes 50 minutes give or take, via public transport it takes 40 IF everything is running perfectly and I get good timing with the tube/position myself on the train so I can walk straight down to the UG. I save over 4000 a year of salary by cycling, keep fit, see things every day that many people travel from the other side of the world to see, Parliament, Big Ben, Hyde Park, Trafalgar Sq, Richmond Park etc.
Rich_W said:
Here's some facts for your bullst
2013.
Fatalities on the Roads of the UK
Car Occupant 785
Cyclist 109
Just for balance
Pedestrian deaths 398
The most common near miss I encounter on my commute is pedestrianst2013.
Fatalities on the Roads of the UK
Car Occupant 785
Cyclist 109
Just for balance
Pedestrian deaths 398
Usually they are looking the wrong way, or are in another world on their phone, or just standing in the traffic.
They even look straight at me, and then step in front of 350kg of yellow BMW with me on it.
They do come to, by then they're usually nearly under the bike
I don't steer round them, I anchor up.
However look at the data you've thrown up there
As a percentage of road deaths , looking at proportionality, look how large that numbers or cyclists deaths is
Do you see?
Hundreds of thousands of pedestrians, millions, 400 deaths
Are there a quarter of the number of pedestrians on cycles
Are there
Hmm?
No.
That's right
No
It's a far smaller number
A fraction of the number of pedestrians
Maybe as few as one in a hundred of the daytime population of London go there on a pushbike.
Looked at in relation to the data it magnifies the issue
Do you see that ?
It follows by that ratio the number of deaths is around 10,000/400
Or 25 times.
I'm just pulling figures out of the air here, but you can see the sketch there, can!t you?
Hmm.
[Figures for road deaths in London in 2013 pedestrian.and cyclist were 65 and 14 respectively
Almost the same ratio to the number you quote 4:1 ]
And licence wise, these should issued by TfL
After proficiency standards are met
These could be governed and cycling disqualification in urban areas could be enforced upon the riders who can't ride safely
Safely.
Nothing to do with cars or motorcycle
It's a different thing altogether
Edited by stuttgartmetal on Sunday 15th January 23:16
stuttgartmetal said:
The most common near miss I encounter on my commute is pedestrians
Usually they are looking the wrong way, or are in another world on their phone, or just standing in the traffic.
They even look straight at me, and then step in front of 350kg of yellow BMW with me on it.
They do come to, by then they're usually nearly under the bike
I don't steer round them, I anchor up.
However look at the data you've thrown up there
As a percentage of road deaths in London, looking at proportionality, look how large that numbers or cyclists deaths is
Do you see?
Hundreds of thousands of pedestrian maybe millions, 400 deaths
Are there a quarter of the number of pedestrians on cycles
Are there
Hmm?
No.
That's right
No
It's a far smaller number
A fraction of the number of pedestrians
Maybe as few as one in a hundred of the daytime population of London go there on a pushbike.
Looked at in relation to the data it magnifies the issue
Do you see that ?
It follows by that ratio the number of deaths is around 10,000/400
Or 25 times.
I'm just pulling figures out of the air here, but you can see the sketch there, can!t you?
Hmm.
And licence wise, these should issued by TfL
After proficiency standards are met
These could be governed and cycling disqualification in urban areas could be enforced upon the riders who can't ride safely
Safely.
Nothing to do with cars or motorcycle
It's a different thing altogether.
You've detailed the negatives of cycling, but the benefits, taking into account the accident rate, is said outweigh the negatives http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36208003.Usually they are looking the wrong way, or are in another world on their phone, or just standing in the traffic.
They even look straight at me, and then step in front of 350kg of yellow BMW with me on it.
They do come to, by then they're usually nearly under the bike
I don't steer round them, I anchor up.
However look at the data you've thrown up there
As a percentage of road deaths in London, looking at proportionality, look how large that numbers or cyclists deaths is
Do you see?
Hundreds of thousands of pedestrian maybe millions, 400 deaths
Are there a quarter of the number of pedestrians on cycles
Are there
Hmm?
No.
That's right
No
It's a far smaller number
A fraction of the number of pedestrians
Maybe as few as one in a hundred of the daytime population of London go there on a pushbike.
Looked at in relation to the data it magnifies the issue
Do you see that ?
It follows by that ratio the number of deaths is around 10,000/400
Or 25 times.
I'm just pulling figures out of the air here, but you can see the sketch there, can!t you?
Hmm.
And licence wise, these should issued by TfL
After proficiency standards are met
These could be governed and cycling disqualification in urban areas could be enforced upon the riders who can't ride safely
Safely.
Nothing to do with cars or motorcycle
It's a different thing altogether.
Heart disease, cancer, stroke and a tendency to put on weight all pose far more serious risks to life expectancy than the relatively small risk of a fatal crash.
Licencing - it will reduce the numbers of cyclists, which will mean more cars, more cost, more danger, worse air quality, more congestion. That is all that licencing for cyclists will achieve, and nothing else imo. Licencing is a truly barking suggestion, but widely made by those who drive 1.5 ton cars. No wonder there's so many car accidents.
stuttgartmetal said:
Money talks, Einstein
LOL
Yes, and heart disease, cancer, stroke, obesity, road traffic collisions, congestion, air quality etc cost a sLOL
t load of money. It's bizarre to think that cycling is expensive in comparison. Licences - will they mean children can't cycle? If there's an age restriction will children need to carry ID?
It is a barking suggestion, it really is.
Stuttgartmetal, here's a serious question: Do cyclists cause 1000th of the problems that we motorists do, all things considered?
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