Debate over compulsory cycle helmets

[FWDRacer]

RobM77 said:

Really? If that's the case, then I stand corrected. I know people who don't wear helmets, but it's not because of money, just because they don't see a benefit and prefer the wind in their hair brains splattered all over the road.

EFA. Morons to a man/woman.


Let the debate rage. Once in a coma you'll struggle to put your point across.

[Parrot of Doom]

FWDRacer said:

EFA. Morons to a man/woman.


Let the debate rage. Once in a coma you'll struggle to put your point across.

What's moronic is presuming that by wearing a helmet you're substantially improving your chances of surviving a cycling accident. What happens in an accident where you're hit by a car, and your back is broken without your head suffering any impact whatsoever? Are we now going to be required to wear full body armour, as a strike to the spine can be instantly fatal?

I notice you drive a Ford Puma. That car is an old design, for which much safer modern replacements are now available. Why are you driving that, and not the latest five-star NCAP designs?

[fido]

walm said:

You answered your own question.
Since there are so many of them, drivers are plenty used to driving appropriately around them.
In the UK the numbers are far lower and drivers aren't as used to dealing with them.

So we dress like tits so that you have less of an excuse to run us over.

It is really a safety in numbers thing.

Also, you will probably find that if a greater proportion of the country is on a bike, there are fewer cars on the road, so less need to stand out.

Feel free to pop over to http://www.stop-smidsy.org.uk/

I am sorry that our need to stand out owing to driving incompetence has somehow offended you.

I can assure you that no matter what you wear up on your high horse I won't give a toss.

It's also a completely different environment in Holland - cyclists have their own lanes seperate from the road. Having cycled a few thousand miles over there and also done my stint in London as a student, it's a different experience not having to worry about cracking your head open on a kerb or into the side of an open car door. I would still wear a helmet regardless of the law, but each to their own [safety].

[Davi]

Parrot of Doom said:

What's moronic is presuming that by wearing a helmet you're substantially improving your chances of surviving a cycling accident. What happens in an accident where you're hit by a car, and your back is broken without your head suffering any impact whatsoever? Are we now going to be required to wear full body armour, as a strike to the spine can be instantly fatal?

I notice you drive a Ford Puma. That car is an old design, for which much safer modern replacements are now available. Why are you driving that, and not the latest five-star NCAP designs?

That's before you even consider the evidence that some injuries are worsened by helmets. Of course such things are irrelevant when you can make grandiose sweeping statements...

[RobM77]

I should add to my comments that I wear a helmet, because it wasn't hugely expensive, is comfortable and lightweight, and I don't see why not. I'd be interested to see evidence either way though.

[FWDRacer]

Parrot of Doom said:

What's moronic is presuming that by wearing a helmet you're substantially improving your chances of surviving a cycling accident. What happens in an accident where you're hit by a car, and your back is broken without your head suffering any impact whatsoever? Are we now going to be required to wear full body armour, as a strike to the spine can be instantly fatal?

I notice you drive a Ford Puma. That car is an old design, for which much safer modern replacements are now available. Why are you driving that, and not the latest five-star NCAP designs?

Using the same adage - why bother wearing a motorcycle hemet or a back protector whilst on a crotch rocket? Worried about what you'll look like? It's about small percentages, and increasing your chances.

What car I currently drive and what it has got do with a thread on cycling is beyond me. I race a car too for the record, so this isn't about avoiding putting myself in harm's way - it's about increasing the percentages should anything untoward happen.

Now go and enjoy the wind the hair, and make sure you're not put off by the whistling created by the gap between your ears.

[Engineer1]

Don't forget the person in full lycra or cycling wear may be dressed for riding along a muddy track that they are on the way to, if you see me on the road half way along my ride I may appear over dressed see me at the end of my ride when my shorts are now mud brown and I'm splattered in mud and you will see why I am in cycling gear, I just got back in and my clothes go straight in the washer.

[samwilliams]

FWDRacer said:

Using the same adage - why bother wearing a motorcycle hemet or a back protector whilst on a crotch rocket?

The difference is that a cycling helmet is designed (as far as I understand it) to protect against a very specific type of impact. That kind of impact is fairly rare among adults cycling on roads.

Further, there is evidence to suggest that some impacts are made worse by the wearing of a helmet.

Add to that the evidence that suggests that drivers give you more room when you are not wearing a helmet, thereby helping to prevent the accident in the first place, and you end up in a place where it's certainly not a clear-cut decision to wear a helmet.

(For other scenarios it may be a little different, such as with young children who are much more likely to have slow-speed toppling over incidents, which I believe is exactly the kind of impact helmets are good at protecting against)

[RobM77]

FWDRacer said:

Parrot of Doom said:

What's moronic is presuming that by wearing a helmet you're substantially improving your chances of surviving a cycling accident. What happens in an accident where you're hit by a car, and your back is broken without your head suffering any impact whatsoever? Are we now going to be required to wear full body armour, as a strike to the spine can be instantly fatal?

I notice you drive a Ford Puma. That car is an old design, for which much safer modern replacements are now available. Why are you driving that, and not the latest five-star NCAP designs?

Using the same adage - why bother wearing a motorcycle hemet or a back protector whilst on a crotch rocket? Worried about what you'll look like? It's about small percentages, and increasing your chances.

What car I currently drive and what it has got do with a thread on cycling is beyond me. I race a car too for the record, so this isn't about avoiding putting myself in harm's way - it's about increasing the percentages should anything untoward happen.

Now go and enjoy the wind the hair, and make sure you're not put off by the whistling created by the gap between your ears.

Absolutely. It's about being sensible. I also race; in quite an exposed reasonably dangerous car. I don't want to change to racing a Porsche or something, because I wouldn't enjoy it as much. Nevertheless, I have a HANS device, good protective clothing etc.

When I'm on the bike, I also want to enjoy myself, but if there are any safety measures which are cost and time effective, like wearing a helmet, then I will. I've taken a few falls and never hit my head, but that doesn't mean that I'll stop wearing a helmet.

[Parrot of Doom]

FWDRacer said:

Using the same adage - why bother wearing a motorcycle hemet or a back protector whilst on a crotch rocket? Worried about what you'll look like? It's about small percentages, and increasing your chances.

What car I currently drive and what it has got do with a thread on cycling is beyond me. I race a car too for the record, so this isn't about avoiding putting myself in harm's way - it's about increasing the percentages should anything untoward happen.

Now go and enjoy the wind the hair, and make sure you're not put off by the whistling created by the gap between your ears.

I guess a cyclist's average speed is about 13-15mph. How that compares to a motorcycle I don't know, but I'd guess again that the average speed of a motorcyclist is easily double that. I know that when I'm doing 30mph on my road bike I take extreme care, coming off at that speed is a very scary prospect, but at 14mph it doesn't worry me at all, just as it wouldn't worry somebody jogging along at 8mph. How many joggers do you see wearing cycling helmets? After all, they're on the pavement, up and down kerbs, around obstructions, a lot more to bang their heads on. About 800 pedestrians are killed in road accidents each year, how many of those lives would have been saved if they'd worn a helmet every time they crossed the road? Maybe all pedestrians should be forced to wear helmets while crossing the road, it would save lots of lives, no?

What about cars? Wearing a multi-point harness and helmet in a car fitted with a roll-cage would save hundreds of lives annually. So why not do it?

The point you've missed is that people make a subconscious risk assessment in everything they do. I'm perfectly happy to cycle around without a helmet. If you truly wanted to "increase the percentages" then you'd drive a safer car. So why don't you? Why are you driving around in a decades-old design, when you could be driving something much, much safer?

Put your money where your mouth is. If you believe cycling without a helmet is stupid then you must respond to criticism of your choice of car. If you have different positions on both points, then perhaps there's a sizeable gap between your ears.

[FWDRacer]

Just to satisfy your inner troll I've updated my profile ref the car - so once you've wiped the foam away from the edges of your mouth I'll encourage you to take a look. I'll post up pics of the helmet that saved my head last Friday if anyone wants to look at the pro-helmet debate?

I think you missed the point about not being risk averse. I wasn't being ironic.

Edited by FWDRacer on Tuesday 1st February 16:29

[HundredthIdiot]

I wear a helmet when I expect to crash, and not when I don't.

So far my judgement has proven 100% reliable.

[fixedwheelnut]

I sometimes wear a helmet usually in Winter but prefer riding without one in Summer, I also genuinely notice that cars drive closer to me when I wear a helmet as if they think that wearing one means I;ll be OK if they knock me off.

The majority of cyclists killed in car collisions die from internal body injuries, yes some do suffer head injuries but then do many more people in car crashes does that mean car drivers need to start wearing helmets?

I think there is enough overkill with the nanny state leave it to the individual, people will never agree on this.

[Gargamel]

Live topic for me, as I am about to re commence a fairly lengthy commute by bike. I have regulalry commuted by bike on a 70mph three lane A road, but it was a few years ago, and nothing since then makes me think the standard of driving in the UK has improved.

So, do I mash it up the A3 every day, or take the back roads (some of which are single track/passing place type affairs)

I never wear a helmet, was persuaded to wear one briefly whilst doing the CTC, hateful thing, found my visual and spacial perception much reduced.

However I am doing Mount Ventoux later in the year, will certainly be taking one for the descent....

[B3njamin]

I came off a motorbike at relatively slow speed, probably about 20mph, perhaps a bit less, and even at that relatively sedate speed I felt my head take a right wallop as it hit the pavement; it makes me feel a bit unwell considering what that would have been like sans helmet.

Prior to this I never thought to wear a bicycle helmet - it's something else to lug about, looks silly and I'd always previously justified it by telling myself that the speeds were slow enough to not need one. I'm not so sure I was right now and the situation has encouraged me to ride with a helmet when I go out on the road.

Can't see it being implemented in the UK any time soon so the whole issue is sort of irrelevant anyway.

Perhaps it's coincidence but this thread has been very similar to the compulsory bicycle insurance thread with the conclusion being-generally-that although it's not practical to enforce it, common sense suggests it would be very beneficial to carry insurance, or wear a helmet.

[BliarOut]

FWDRacer said:

Parrot of Doom said:

What's moronic is presuming that by wearing a helmet you're substantially improving your chances of surviving a cycling accident. What happens in an accident where you're hit by a car, and your back is broken without your head suffering any impact whatsoever? Are we now going to be required to wear full body armour, as a strike to the spine can be instantly fatal?

I notice you drive a Ford Puma. That car is an old design, for which much safer modern replacements are now available. Why are you driving that, and not the latest five-star NCAP designs?

Using the same adage - why bother wearing a motorcycle hemet or a back protector whilst on a crotch rocket? Worried about what you'll look like? It's about small percentages, and increasing your chances.

What car I currently drive and what it has got do with a thread on cycling is beyond me. I race a car too for the record, so this isn't about avoiding putting myself in harm's way - it's about increasing the percentages should anything untoward happen.

Now go and enjoy the wind the hair, and make sure you're not put off by the whistling created by the gap between your ears.

I'm old enough to have learnt to ride motorbikes without a helmet, it just seems a bit 'ghey' on a pushbike

Besides, racing is a bit.... Dangerous isn't it? You could substantially reduce the risks you are taking in life by not doing it.

[Parrot of Doom]

FWDRacer said:

Just to satisfy your inner troll I've updated my profile ref the car - so once you've wiped the foam away from the edges of your mouth I'll encourage you to take a look. I'll post up pics of the helmet that saved my head last Friday if anyone wants to look at the pro-helmet debate?

I think you missed the point about not being risk averse. I wasn't being ironic.

Edited by FWDRacer on Tuesday 1st February 16:29

Answer my question please. Why do (or did) you drive a Ford Puma when safer replacements are available?

[henrycrun]

Bear in mind that Cycle Helmets are good up to 12mph...

[FWDRacer]

Parrot of Doom said:

Answer my question please. Why do (or did) you drive a Ford Puma when safer replacements are available?

10 years ago when I bought it, the car was new tech. It even had an airbag-so perhaps draw parallels me enjoying cycling and driving the Puma (fun) with ensuring I had a small degree of safety net (bike lid and airbag). The car saw sterling service, it didn't go break or go wrong. I never saw fit to replace it.

Satiated?

Back on Topic - do you want me to post pics of the lid that saved my Bacon (20+mph off) last Friday?





Apologies for poor i-phone pic but the split evident at impact point propogates right back through the lid. Just like a motorcycle lid it is all about the energy dissipation. The alternative is that force acting directly on your skull. I was still suffering from mild concussion on Saturday night. Make your own mind up.

Edited by FWDRacer on Tuesday 1st February 20:40

[Silver993tt]

henrycrun said:

Bear in mind that Cycle Helmets are good up to 12mph...

and a human skull?