A terrifyingly expensive hobby...
Discussion
Sorry to fill up the place with another one of these, but I need to have a mini-rant first.
When the hell did bikes get SOOO expensive?
The last bike I bought was back in 2001. It was a GT of some sort, fairly heavy but strong frame, built for jumping really. It had Rock Shox suspension, disc brakes, Shimano STX RC components and huge Continental tyres on super-strong rims. It cost me £500.
Before that I had a Saracen which cost £300. It was a great entry level mountain bike (light cro-mo frame, Alivio groupset) which I spent £120 putting some Rock Shox Indy suspension on.
Recently I've been getting back into mountain biking on an old Merlin XC bike which I got from freecycle. It's really light, but rigid at both ends and geo is really set up for climbs rather than anything fun. I was thinking I'd go for another more fun bike, and had a budget of around £600-700 in my head as an amount I could afford for a nice machine.
Turns out, I was wrong. Everything in this price bracket is made of lead, has very basic components, Suntour forks and looks like a Halfords special. I've been to four different local shops, and the best they could do was last year's Trek something reduced from £950 to £750. It was still heavy, but at least had Avid brakes and an RST fork. Obviously I needed to do more research. I decided to buy a copy of what was my mag of choice; MBUK.
They're referring to anything under £1500 as "entry-level". Anything under £5k as "recreational". f
k. That. Why is everything so expensive these days? I would expect this stuff to get cheaper over time but if anything it's gone the other way. I know I need to account for inflation etc. but blimey. I remember looking at a Specialized RockHopper for £399. Now their cheapest is around £800. And comes with a fork I'd expect to see on a Raleigh.
Do I really need to spend upwards of two grand just to get something that I can ride up and down hills? I need at least front suspension, I like smaller frames (current bike not suitable, in other words), hydraulic disk brakes would be lovely and some strong wheels. Above all the frame needs to be light. Is it just me or are they all made of pig iron these days?
I would be grateful for any sniff of a bargain anywhere. I'd rather not go second hand as it's going to be a £200 service for hydraulics and suspension rebuilds straight off. Is there anything reasonably priced left on the market?
tl;dr I know!
When the hell did bikes get SOOO expensive?
The last bike I bought was back in 2001. It was a GT of some sort, fairly heavy but strong frame, built for jumping really. It had Rock Shox suspension, disc brakes, Shimano STX RC components and huge Continental tyres on super-strong rims. It cost me £500.
Before that I had a Saracen which cost £300. It was a great entry level mountain bike (light cro-mo frame, Alivio groupset) which I spent £120 putting some Rock Shox Indy suspension on.
Recently I've been getting back into mountain biking on an old Merlin XC bike which I got from freecycle. It's really light, but rigid at both ends and geo is really set up for climbs rather than anything fun. I was thinking I'd go for another more fun bike, and had a budget of around £600-700 in my head as an amount I could afford for a nice machine.
Turns out, I was wrong. Everything in this price bracket is made of lead, has very basic components, Suntour forks and looks like a Halfords special. I've been to four different local shops, and the best they could do was last year's Trek something reduced from £950 to £750. It was still heavy, but at least had Avid brakes and an RST fork. Obviously I needed to do more research. I decided to buy a copy of what was my mag of choice; MBUK.
They're referring to anything under £1500 as "entry-level". Anything under £5k as "recreational". f
k. That. Why is everything so expensive these days? I would expect this stuff to get cheaper over time but if anything it's gone the other way. I know I need to account for inflation etc. but blimey. I remember looking at a Specialized RockHopper for £399. Now their cheapest is around £800. And comes with a fork I'd expect to see on a Raleigh.Do I really need to spend upwards of two grand just to get something that I can ride up and down hills? I need at least front suspension, I like smaller frames (current bike not suitable, in other words), hydraulic disk brakes would be lovely and some strong wheels. Above all the frame needs to be light. Is it just me or are they all made of pig iron these days?
I would be grateful for any sniff of a bargain anywhere. I'd rather not go second hand as it's going to be a £200 service for hydraulics and suspension rebuilds straight off. Is there anything reasonably priced left on the market?
tl;dr I know!
yep, rant away! Its all got a bit silly of late.
2011 bikes with lower spec stuff hanging off them but costing more than the equivalent of 2010.
Bargains, well there still 2010 stuff kicking about reduced on a good few sites, plenty of places do 0% finance but thats not really the point is it?
Alternative - post a WTD on singletrack for something nearly new. You'd be very unlucky to buy a pup.
my 2p
2011 bikes with lower spec stuff hanging off them but costing more than the equivalent of 2010.
Bargains, well there still 2010 stuff kicking about reduced on a good few sites, plenty of places do 0% finance but thats not really the point is it?
Alternative - post a WTD on singletrack for something nearly new. You'd be very unlucky to buy a pup.
my 2p
Bear with me here, but I think cycling is such an expensive hobby because it's so cheap.
The 1st tier professional kit is affordable (though perhaps not justafiable) to most people that post here. This puts it in purchasing reach and people aim higher than they otherwise would. One wouldn't complain that cars are expensive because they can't afford Hamilton's F1 car or a BTCC spec Seat. That kit is in a completely different realm that is unattainable to all but the super rich.
Yet when you come to look at road bikes, say, most pass straight over the Sora and Tiagra equipped steel and alloy bikes that are probably more suited and perfectly adequate for the job and look to the Di2 equipped top flight carbon bikes and think how it's crazy to charge £5k+ for a push bike without really conisdering that you're buying professional race gear.
You can see it in the "it's dead expensive to maintain a bike" thread. People reporting the high costs of buying the very best stuff for bikes that are ridden to the limit and then comparing it to pottering to work in a Micra. It's not apples and apples.
Not saying it's wrong that people do that...I'm already considering looking into getting a new top end carbon road bike and relegating the titanium one I bought just 6 months ago to 'winter training' duties. But again, that's because if I really, really wanted it, I could have the very best. So I feel bad for not having it. Silly really.
I would have thought that those entry level, cheap bikes with Suntour forks and low spec brakes would probably perform as well or better than the old GT you're comparing it too. With the advance of technology the 'crappy' components have come a long way too.
The 1st tier professional kit is affordable (though perhaps not justafiable) to most people that post here. This puts it in purchasing reach and people aim higher than they otherwise would. One wouldn't complain that cars are expensive because they can't afford Hamilton's F1 car or a BTCC spec Seat. That kit is in a completely different realm that is unattainable to all but the super rich.
Yet when you come to look at road bikes, say, most pass straight over the Sora and Tiagra equipped steel and alloy bikes that are probably more suited and perfectly adequate for the job and look to the Di2 equipped top flight carbon bikes and think how it's crazy to charge £5k+ for a push bike without really conisdering that you're buying professional race gear.
You can see it in the "it's dead expensive to maintain a bike" thread. People reporting the high costs of buying the very best stuff for bikes that are ridden to the limit and then comparing it to pottering to work in a Micra. It's not apples and apples.
Not saying it's wrong that people do that...I'm already considering looking into getting a new top end carbon road bike and relegating the titanium one I bought just 6 months ago to 'winter training' duties. But again, that's because if I really, really wanted it, I could have the very best. So I feel bad for not having it. Silly really.
I would have thought that those entry level, cheap bikes with Suntour forks and low spec brakes would probably perform as well or better than the old GT you're comparing it too. With the advance of technology the 'crappy' components have come a long way too.
Edited by Uriel on Tuesday 5th April 13:44
HereBeMonsters said:
When the hell did bikes get SOOO expensive?
Things have been steadily getting worse over the last 5 years.Reasons:
British £ currency is weak, meaning you get less for you money on imports (just about every bicycle component is imported)
Fuel costs go up which leads to both global and local distribution costs rising (container ships, lorries etc)
Raw materials costs have increased
Manufacturing costs have increased
Wages have risen in what were previously referred to as 3rd world countries
Recently the increase in VAT has made everything more expensive, but only a little bit.
Inflation.
There isn't a great deal of profit margin in selling bicycles, usually about 15% - 20%. Components and accessories is where most shops make money.
May I join this rant?
It's been a case of lower specs and higher prices since the financial world ended in
about '08 becase of the devalued £, the cost of the materials has gone right up too (that's their excuse which is BS because the material cost of a bike must be tiny compared to say manufacure and R&D)
Plus I feel the whole sceen has gone a bit mad just look at MTB forks! We've got to a point that looking at RRP's Fox seeminly don't sell a fork for less than £600, RS and Marz aren't far behind (or until recently anyway) it's all well an good having fancy gold stancions that are 0.001% less sticky than the previous ones and 17 ways to adjust them to make them worse but it doesn't leave much room for bike co's to build a bike for less than a grand
It seems there was a massive gap between RST / Suntour "spring in a tube" type forks and "Pro Spec" super expensive ones from the big 3.
Christ! In last months MBUK fork test BOS (a super trick and previously super expensive niche brand) were one of the cheapest!
At least Rock Shox are trying to fix it by selling forks like Domain and Sektor which are downspecced versions of their top-end forks, they're about the same spec / price as their highend stuff was a couple of year ago.
Shimano seemed to completely lose their mind in 2009/10 with their prices £75 for an XT Casset!
It's been a case of lower specs and higher prices since the financial world ended in
about '08 becase of the devalued £, the cost of the materials has gone right up too (that's their excuse which is BS because the material cost of a bike must be tiny compared to say manufacure and R&D)
Plus I feel the whole sceen has gone a bit mad just look at MTB forks! We've got to a point that looking at RRP's Fox seeminly don't sell a fork for less than £600, RS and Marz aren't far behind (or until recently anyway) it's all well an good having fancy gold stancions that are 0.001% less sticky than the previous ones and 17 ways to adjust them to make them worse but it doesn't leave much room for bike co's to build a bike for less than a grand
It seems there was a massive gap between RST / Suntour "spring in a tube" type forks and "Pro Spec" super expensive ones from the big 3.
Christ! In last months MBUK fork test BOS (a super trick and previously super expensive niche brand) were one of the cheapest!
At least Rock Shox are trying to fix it by selling forks like Domain and Sektor which are downspecced versions of their top-end forks, they're about the same spec / price as their highend stuff was a couple of year ago.
Shimano seemed to completely lose their mind in 2009/10 with their prices £75 for an XT Casset!
I don't agree that we are buying Lewis F1 Mclaren. They are not mass produced consumer products. I wouldn't even say a Olympic Track bike or TdF TT bike are even equivalent.
You'd probably be looking at a 911 equivalent in terms level between an Full XTR group Carbon/Ti Framed & Fox forked bike.
An SLX, Reba, Avid & Ali Framed bike is probably the equivalent of a Focus STI.
With regard to price increases yep the hike between 2010 & 2011 seems pretty absurd given the component drop in level, it's obvious that the global economy & margins in the bike world are being squeezed and the UK buyer is feeling the brunt.
The Boardman Bikes seem to be the obvious example, people thought their 2009 & 2010 spec were too good to be true and it looks as if they were right, because the prices & equip levels are unsustainable to the point they've released an Elite series to try and cash in on the upper end of the market with higher margins.
You'd probably be looking at a 911 equivalent in terms level between an Full XTR group Carbon/Ti Framed & Fox forked bike.
An SLX, Reba, Avid & Ali Framed bike is probably the equivalent of a Focus STI.
With regard to price increases yep the hike between 2010 & 2011 seems pretty absurd given the component drop in level, it's obvious that the global economy & margins in the bike world are being squeezed and the UK buyer is feeling the brunt.
The Boardman Bikes seem to be the obvious example, people thought their 2009 & 2010 spec were too good to be true and it looks as if they were right, because the prices & equip levels are unsustainable to the point they've released an Elite series to try and cash in on the upper end of the market with higher margins.
Edited by OneDs on Tuesday 5th April 14:02
£500 will still get you a decent bike.
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kona/nunu-2011...
Admittedly it's on Alivio, but it is 9 speed nowadays and it's got a decentish fork and hydraulic brakes.
EDIT:
Also, to be fair if we assume 3% annual inflation over those 10 years since 2001 (which is on the low side) then £500 is worth £670 in todays money.
Tons of great bikes around for that sort of cash.
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kona/nunu-2011...
Admittedly it's on Alivio, but it is 9 speed nowadays and it's got a decentish fork and hydraulic brakes.
EDIT:
Also, to be fair if we assume 3% annual inflation over those 10 years since 2001 (which is on the low side) then £500 is worth £670 in todays money.
Tons of great bikes around for that sort of cash.
Edited by shalmaneser on Tuesday 5th April 14:21
As well as the effects of C2W etc, let's not forget that
VAT has gone up
Exchange rates move about
Materials are more expensive
Freight is more expensive
There's little hope of anyone at any stage of the supply chain being prepared to take any of the hit, so it becomes easier to stick prices up. I've no idea of the figures, but I'll take a bet local bike shops aren't making any more profit on bikes this year than they were last year.
VAT has gone up
Exchange rates move about
Materials are more expensive
Freight is more expensive
There's little hope of anyone at any stage of the supply chain being prepared to take any of the hit, so it becomes easier to stick prices up. I've no idea of the figures, but I'll take a bet local bike shops aren't making any more profit on bikes this year than they were last year.
shalmaneser said:
£500 will still get you a decent bike.
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kona/nunu-2011...
Admittedly it's on Alivio, but it is 9 speed nowadays and it's got a decentish fork and hydraulic brakes.
EDIT:
Also, to be fair if we assume 3% annual inflation over those 10 years since 2001 (which is on the low side) then £500 is worth £670 in todays money.
Tons of great bikes around for that sort of cash.
That does look way more like what I was after. In terms of mechs etc. I'm not fussed as they can all be upgraded. It's the core parts - frame, forks, disc brakes (ie having mounts for them) that I'm worried about.http://www.evanscycles.com/products/kona/nunu-2011...
Admittedly it's on Alivio, but it is 9 speed nowadays and it's got a decentish fork and hydraulic brakes.
EDIT:
Also, to be fair if we assume 3% annual inflation over those 10 years since 2001 (which is on the low side) then £500 is worth £670 in todays money.
Tons of great bikes around for that sort of cash.
Not got an Evans locally, but will have to check one out. Many thanks for the link.
I do think my MTB hobby / addiction has grown into a very expensive hobby BUT it is nothing in comparison with my Scuba diving hobby. This years servicing bill will be upwards of £700 and that is before I get wet. I get club rates on a dive so only £25 per dive and £5 for a Nitrox fill (£30 per dive, 2 dives a week through the summer, we are up to about £2k not including any kit.
Kit costs at the level I dive at are STUPID!
Dont ask about the costs of track days in a 'liz.....
Kit costs at the level I dive at are STUPID!
Dont ask about the costs of track days in a 'liz.....
el stovey said:
Are bikes really that much more expensive or are people just convincing themselves that they need the better frames and components?
My point is to get something that is the modern equivalent to the GT back in 2001, would now cost at least twice as much, if not more, in my search so far. 2 exceptional (unbeatable) value bargains:
HT: 2010 Rockrider 8.1 - £450 in store:
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/8-1-2010-141402412/
FS: 2010 Boardman FS team - £800
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...
HT: 2010 Rockrider 8.1 - £450 in store:
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/EN/8-1-2010-141402412/
FS: 2010 Boardman FS team - £800
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/...
Remember the merlins when your looking! the malt 1 and 2 both have great reviews from MBUK / Bikeradar. The malt 2 is £769 but you get an extra 10% off that when you register an account so its within your budget. My friend has the Malt 1 and loves it. Bikes are getting silly expensive but you can still get a good one for that price.
the range -
http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+Shop/Bikes/Moun...
review of malt 2 from what mountain bike magazine -
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mount...
the range -
http://www.merlincycles.co.uk/Bike+Shop/Bikes/Moun...
review of malt 2 from what mountain bike magazine -
http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/mount...
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