NitrolympX Hockenheim 2012
Discussion
Just a thought chaps.....but probably not a popular one!
As much as either Bernie or F1 said 'take the rubber off the track' im pretty sure they didnt say 'take the rubber off the track AND ruin the surface for future use....
Mantorp always had the rubber taken off each year but was then brought back to drag racing standard for the veidec festival every summer
As much as either Bernie or F1 said 'take the rubber off the track' im pretty sure they didnt say 'take the rubber off the track AND ruin the surface for future use....
Mantorp always had the rubber taken off each year but was then brought back to drag racing standard for the veidec festival every summer
Edited by topfuelgb on Thursday 16th August 09:21
topfuelgb said:
Just a thought chaps.....but probably not a popular one!
As much as either Bernie or F1 said 'take the rubber off the track' im pretty sure they didnt say 'take the rubber off the track AND ruin the surface for future use....
Mantorp always had the rubber taken off each year but was then brought back to drag racing standard for the veidec festival every summer
Very good piont and even once the surface had been ruined there was still time to cancel the event diffcult decision but one that should have been made , i,m sure Pod had the track completly cleaned using a machine used by the airports which just removed the rubber / glue from the surface without damaging the actual track.As much as either Bernie or F1 said 'take the rubber off the track' im pretty sure they didnt say 'take the rubber off the track AND ruin the surface for future use....
Mantorp always had the rubber taken off each year but was then brought back to drag racing standard for the veidec festival every summer
Edited by topfuelgb on Thursday 16th August 09:21
topfuelgb said:
Just a thought chaps.....but probably not a popular one!
As much as either Bernie or F1 said 'take the rubber off the track' im pretty sure they didnt say 'take the rubber off the track AND ruin the surface for future use....
Mantorp always had the rubber taken off each year but was then brought back to drag racing standard for the veidec festival every summer
Very true. When things go wrong 99.9% of the time it is due to a cock up. 0.1% of the time due to a conspiracy. As much as either Bernie or F1 said 'take the rubber off the track' im pretty sure they didnt say 'take the rubber off the track AND ruin the surface for future use....
Mantorp always had the rubber taken off each year but was then brought back to drag racing standard for the veidec festival every summer
Edited by topfuelgb on Thursday 16th August 09:21
Some relevant snippets from the FIA rules or recognition of Drag Strips
Course maintenance
It is recommended that the ASN should make regular inspections
during the period of the licence.
Proper maintenance of the drag strip and its installations is a
condition of the licence.
Surface:
Track: smooth flat surface of recognized roadbase construction
hot mix, concrete, or approved sealed bitumen surface.
Shoulders and irregular joints are not permitted. All edges must
be satisfactorily blended.
NON-PERMANENT DRAG STRIPS AND THOSE COMBINED
WITH CIRCUITS
-the preparation or use of any part of a circuit for drag racing will
change the surface characteristics and in particular the antiskid properties when wet. For new circuits the inclusion of the
start area and/or timed section of a dragstrip in any part of the
track surface or asphalt run-off areas is to be avoided, as is the
addition of such features within an existing layout;
- existing circuits incorporating dragstrips will be required to
demonstrate to the FIA circuit inspector that all surfaces have
been cleaned of excessive rubber deposits before a circuit
licence can be granted and this will be a continuing condition
of validity of the licence for circuit races;
- areas habitually prepared with chemicals for drag racing starts
are likely to require resurfacing or to be re-situated outside the race track and its run-off areas before FIA approval.
Course maintenance
It is recommended that the ASN should make regular inspections
during the period of the licence.
Proper maintenance of the drag strip and its installations is a
condition of the licence.
Surface:
Track: smooth flat surface of recognized roadbase construction
hot mix, concrete, or approved sealed bitumen surface.
Shoulders and irregular joints are not permitted. All edges must
be satisfactorily blended.
NON-PERMANENT DRAG STRIPS AND THOSE COMBINED
WITH CIRCUITS
-the preparation or use of any part of a circuit for drag racing will
change the surface characteristics and in particular the antiskid properties when wet. For new circuits the inclusion of the
start area and/or timed section of a dragstrip in any part of the
track surface or asphalt run-off areas is to be avoided, as is the
addition of such features within an existing layout;
- existing circuits incorporating dragstrips will be required to
demonstrate to the FIA circuit inspector that all surfaces have
been cleaned of excessive rubber deposits before a circuit
licence can be granted and this will be a continuing condition
of validity of the licence for circuit races;
- areas habitually prepared with chemicals for drag racing starts
are likely to require resurfacing or to be re-situated outside the race track and its run-off areas before FIA approval.
Upatdawn said:
racing surface aside, I think calling TF/PM racers "cowards" was a big mistake....
True, but that is probably not against the rules. Governing bodies like the FIA are obsessed with rules and regulations, it keeps them all in a job. I think their first port of call will probably be what rules (if any) were broken and then by whom were those rules broken and why.
If you look at the Tommy Johnson Jr case, the governing body applied sanctions against him because the paperwork had not been filled out, if it had been completed he would probably not have been sanctioned.
Hello from under the table, here´s the voice that had to announce this remarkable weekend.
You can believe me that this was THE anti-climax ,
because not only the racers and spectators look(ed) forward to the Nitros, but this is my annual highlight as commentator.
I won´t do a long text because much has already been written here,
some posts with insight, some with -understandable- anger, some with both.
As much as I want to forget this "NitroParalympX on a handicapped track" [(c) S.T.],
I need to reflect more and -try to- do some talking with guys in the upper regions of the orga,
because I hope that this never happens again.
In the last years the traction had been fine,
especially when you know that this is a "once in 365 days" track,
last year even the Friday times were up with the usual european standard.
Yes I know who was in charge for prep in 2011 and would like to see this man back doing his job,
but I think that even he could not have performed miracles on 10 grit sandpaper within 10 days.
( OK so last year the Jet Truck ruined half the track on Saturday night but that is another story in the Hock book)
This year I returned from the "Public Race Days" s
tuation and wondered if I should pray for 3 days of r ?
Well, I (desperately) hoped that the track crew would do their best and that the track would eventually come around.
I was proven completely wrong, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
What everybody should keep in mind is the fact that the man who´s name is written in the startline area
is still the FIA DRag Racing repesentant of germany´s DMSB (pendant to the MSA),
and I think that he will do whatever is in his power to get the track back to usual performance.
After all, it still is Rico´s "Sweetwater" (One Upon a Time inthe WestGermany),
and even though he is not involved with the orga anymore he was there and witnessed the desaster.
What´s the Hock future ?
I don´t know, once the dust has settled I hope for constructive talks between the parties involved.
I hope for a FIA (classes) return,
but it could also be a race to win the "Transcontinental Golden Pineapple"
for some years until the track reputation comes back, I´ve seen that before.
I will pack up and leave tomorrow for Drachten/NL Drag Race,
no Pro Classes there but good sportsman racing, hopefully a well prepped track and some frustration relief.
My vacation for the Finals @ Santa Pod is already booked,
now where is that 3.2A-20 suit for the pitwalk........
You can believe me that this was THE anti-climax ,
because not only the racers and spectators look(ed) forward to the Nitros, but this is my annual highlight as commentator.
I won´t do a long text because much has already been written here,
some posts with insight, some with -understandable- anger, some with both.
As much as I want to forget this "NitroParalympX on a handicapped track" [(c) S.T.],
I need to reflect more and -try to- do some talking with guys in the upper regions of the orga,
because I hope that this never happens again.
In the last years the traction had been fine,
especially when you know that this is a "once in 365 days" track,
last year even the Friday times were up with the usual european standard.
Yes I know who was in charge for prep in 2011 and would like to see this man back doing his job,
but I think that even he could not have performed miracles on 10 grit sandpaper within 10 days.
( OK so last year the Jet Truck ruined half the track on Saturday night but that is another story in the Hock book)
This year I returned from the "Public Race Days" s
tuation and wondered if I should pray for 3 days of r ?Well, I (desperately) hoped that the track crew would do their best and that the track would eventually come around.
I was proven completely wrong, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.
What everybody should keep in mind is the fact that the man who´s name is written in the startline area
is still the FIA DRag Racing repesentant of germany´s DMSB (pendant to the MSA),
and I think that he will do whatever is in his power to get the track back to usual performance.
After all, it still is Rico´s "Sweetwater" (One Upon a Time in
and even though he is not involved with the orga anymore he was there and witnessed the desaster.
What´s the Hock future ?
I don´t know, once the dust has settled I hope for constructive talks between the parties involved.
I hope for a FIA (classes) return,
but it could also be a race to win the "Transcontinental Golden Pineapple"
for some years until the track reputation comes back, I´ve seen that before.
I will pack up and leave tomorrow for Drachten/NL Drag Race,
no Pro Classes there but good sportsman racing, hopefully a well prepped track and some frustration relief.
My vacation for the Finals @ Santa Pod is already booked,
now where is that 3.2A-20 suit for the pitwalk........
Burndown said:
And the burnout box, start line up to about 350ft could be classed as run off for Turn 16-17. These corners are taken at about 85mph and 105mph respectively by an F1 car.
Yes, and the rumblestrip out of turn 16 is the left border of the left lane of the dragstrip from the starting line out to 250 feet.
Hi Guys,
Can anybody help me make head or tail of the Speedgroup statement on Eurodragster at:
http://www.eurodragster.com/news/news.asp?Story=au...
It makes no direct reference to what happened at Hockenheim, and I guess I'm too dense to pick out the implied meaning despite years of interpreting Management Speak.
It appears to be distancing both the FIA and Speedgroup from the Nitrolympix fiasco, but I'm sure I'm missing some other shift in position...
Limey
Can anybody help me make head or tail of the Speedgroup statement on Eurodragster at:
http://www.eurodragster.com/news/news.asp?Story=au...
It makes no direct reference to what happened at Hockenheim, and I guess I'm too dense to pick out the implied meaning despite years of interpreting Management Speak.
It appears to be distancing both the FIA and Speedgroup from the Nitrolympix fiasco, but I'm sure I'm missing some other shift in position...
Limey
I read it more as an request to let Speedgroup have more input in running things at each track in the championship.
Its a reasonable view point but I don't see it happening when tracks do not have to compete with each other to get rounds. I think there is only the four tracks in Europe that comply with the rules to run an FIA round.
Its a reasonable view point but I don't see it happening when tracks do not have to compete with each other to get rounds. I think there is only the four tracks in Europe that comply with the rules to run an FIA round.
i read it the same way but its been interpreted in a number of different ways,
One interpretation has brought anger from sprc officials that speedgroup would have their own club to run the events in every country to ensure consistency,
santa pod was the premier track in the event for decades and the staff there do a (in my mind) better job than anywhere else with the event running creating an easy way of doing things,
having not raced at Tierp i wont comment but as it has a lot of staff from Mantorp id say that it would probably be very good too, Finland and Germany have always had "their way" of doing stuff, That can upset racers at times (and im not talking track here in talking organization )
when it comes to track prep Ian marshal and Darren Prentice with their guys are as good as it gets in Europe, with the Kjell Petterson and his crew vying for that top spot as premier track prep guys, the Fins do a good job also in that respect but probably dont have the consistency of the others,
the Germans when they hire in the top guns usualy get a reasonable track but there has in all the years iv been there in super mod befour pro mod a major problem of way too much traction between the water box and the start line as mentioned by Michael Malgrem,
santa pod had a one off problem with the start line for 1 event but as bad as it was it got better and racing was possible, Finland had a major problem with the timing equipment last year that threatened the event, germany this year has the mother of all cock ups that ruined the event, Im sure tierp will have its day too,
I kind of agree that some one needs to be responsible, for the final decision of "is the organization good enough and the track good enough for an FIA race"
i would not want anyone coming to santa pod to tell them how to do it anymore than the guys at tierp would want us going there telling them how to do it,
there is enough experience on both sides to do a good fair job,
i would
appoint an infrastructure inspector either a group of 4 one from each country or 1 that was changed yearly to ensure no one country gained an advantage at the expense of others,
i would get every FIA racer to email with any major procedural complaints from which track then when i got them all id sort them out See which were valid and which were whining, and have an appointed speedgroup rep sit down with the track promoter/Race director from all the tracks and see how they can help the track to stop getting complaints and make everyone happy,
obviousy if any one refused to meet the minimum standards then sanctions would have to be taken..
thats how id proceed with this...
One interpretation has brought anger from sprc officials that speedgroup would have their own club to run the events in every country to ensure consistency,
santa pod was the premier track in the event for decades and the staff there do a (in my mind) better job than anywhere else with the event running creating an easy way of doing things,
having not raced at Tierp i wont comment but as it has a lot of staff from Mantorp id say that it would probably be very good too, Finland and Germany have always had "their way" of doing stuff, That can upset racers at times (and im not talking track here in talking organization )
when it comes to track prep Ian marshal and Darren Prentice with their guys are as good as it gets in Europe, with the Kjell Petterson and his crew vying for that top spot as premier track prep guys, the Fins do a good job also in that respect but probably dont have the consistency of the others,
the Germans when they hire in the top guns usualy get a reasonable track but there has in all the years iv been there in super mod befour pro mod a major problem of way too much traction between the water box and the start line as mentioned by Michael Malgrem,
santa pod had a one off problem with the start line for 1 event but as bad as it was it got better and racing was possible, Finland had a major problem with the timing equipment last year that threatened the event, germany this year has the mother of all cock ups that ruined the event, Im sure tierp will have its day too,
I kind of agree that some one needs to be responsible, for the final decision of "is the organization good enough and the track good enough for an FIA race"
i would not want anyone coming to santa pod to tell them how to do it anymore than the guys at tierp would want us going there telling them how to do it,
there is enough experience on both sides to do a good fair job,
i would
appoint an infrastructure inspector either a group of 4 one from each country or 1 that was changed yearly to ensure no one country gained an advantage at the expense of others,
i would get every FIA racer to email with any major procedural complaints from which track then when i got them all id sort them out See which were valid and which were whining, and have an appointed speedgroup rep sit down with the track promoter/Race director from all the tracks and see how they can help the track to stop getting complaints and make everyone happy,
obviousy if any one refused to meet the minimum standards then sanctions would have to be taken..
thats how id proceed with this...
Edited by Turbobird1 on Saturday 18th August 09:03
Turbobird1 said:
I would
appoint an infrastructure inspector either a group of 4 one from each country or 1 that was changed yearly to ensure no one country gained an advantage at the expense of others,
i would get every FIA racer to email with any major procedural complaints from which track then when i got them all id sort them out See which were valid and which were whining, and have an appointed speedgroup rep sit down with the track promoter/Race director from all the tracks and see how they can help the track to stop getting complaints and make everyone happy,
obviousy if any one refused to meet the minimum standards then sanctions would have to be taken..
thats how id proceed with this...
I agree that something like this is a good idea. A quantifiable way of testing traction also.appoint an infrastructure inspector either a group of 4 one from each country or 1 that was changed yearly to ensure no one country gained an advantage at the expense of others,
i would get every FIA racer to email with any major procedural complaints from which track then when i got them all id sort them out See which were valid and which were whining, and have an appointed speedgroup rep sit down with the track promoter/Race director from all the tracks and see how they can help the track to stop getting complaints and make everyone happy,
obviousy if any one refused to meet the minimum standards then sanctions would have to be taken..
thats how id proceed with this...
However if you are going to start implementing sanctions against venues then I would think that would have to follow to racers as well like in F1. If the track has been approved the bottom line will be you have to run (or say you are broke of course).
I think this will be one of the difficulties for the FIA regarding Hockenheim. All of the paperwork was complete, all of their safety rules were met and still there was no racing.
they did not supply a racing surface capable of supporting the intended use
of course it was signed off as safe...by interested parties....
thats why it needs an independent inspection team,
it follows that if its signed off as safe by an independent inspector the racers have to race of go home with no points
but that inspecter needs to be INDEPENDENT
of course it was signed off as safe...by interested parties....
thats why it needs an independent inspection team,
it follows that if its signed off as safe by an independent inspector the racers have to race of go home with no points
but that inspecter needs to be INDEPENDENT
Edited by Turbobird1 on Saturday 18th August 09:18
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