RE: 'Ring Insurance Could Save You £1000s
Discussion
cliffie said:
Well that makes my mind up. No more trips to the Ring for me. Went begining of the month and was clearly not adequately covered.
I for one will spend my £££ on proper track days from now on, at least you know where you stand.
proper track days at the Ring are the answer.... they do exist I for one will spend my £££ on proper track days from now on, at least you know where you stand.
Edited by cliffie on Wednesday 22 July 09:04
cliffie said:
Well that makes my mind up. No more trips to the Ring for me. Went begining of the month and was clearly not adequately covered.
I for one will spend my £££ on proper track days from now on, at least you know where you stand.
Ultimately, the Ring is a de-restricted one way toll road. Road laws still apply, so going beyond your limits or the cars is clearly questionable.I for one will spend my £££ on proper track days from now on, at least you know where you stand.
At least on a proper track you have marshals, run off areas, and although crashing off isn't ideal, it IS the place for it... ie, you don't have to worry about traffic laws biting you on the arse!
All said and done, I think the Ring as it is for tourist use, is a bit wrong. You have to not crash, you have to avoid slow people, you have little to no run off areas, you need insurance, you are driving under the umbrella of road traffic laws.
You may as well just go for a hoon on any old decent road for what it is worth.
At least on a proper track there are real benefits to being there over any old fast road.
Dave
sosidge said:
A fraction off-topic but I was intrigued to see that the new T&Cs for my esure policy specifically exclude driving on the Nurburgring.
Must be a lot more "normal" people driving around there (and binning it) for the insurers to take such an interest.
Yeah and lots are adding the clauses about not being covered on "prepared courses" to get around problems where tracks can be classed as roadsMust be a lot more "normal" people driving around there (and binning it) for the insurers to take such an interest.
cusimar9 said:
ringweekends said:
As with most things in life, you purchase insurance to your requirements, mine were fully comp insurance for a UK registered car for use on the Nordschleife on Touristenfahrten, which is the cover I have.
PLEASE SHARE - Who are you insured with?...I'd suggest EVERYONE takes his posts with a large helping of salt!
sosidge said:
A fraction off-topic but I was intrigued to see that the new T&Cs for my esure policy specifically exclude driving on the Nurburgring.
I noticed this as well, but it also says your policy T&C's are applicable to the date on which you took the policy out. My policy was taken out before they changed the t&c's, however come renewal time i'm going elsewhere, which was the case this time last year!Chris-R said:
cpufreak said:
pistonheads please can you remove this misleading article.
it gives totally the wrong impression - i.e. that you will have insurance cover.
This is not the case, it doesn't cover you for the bare minimum legal requirements for driving on any german road (i.e. no 3rd party cover).
All it is, is a new form of taxation.
£99/day for 8 laps "cover" would be acceptable, if it was cover.
All this gives is:
£10000 towards armco damage.
£10000 towards airlift to hospital
£30000 to your spouse if you die.
So if your power steering hose splits, you spin, manage to avoid hitting anything, and park up beside the track, but in the mean time before you have a chance to flag, a biker goes down on on the fluid your car drops, what does this give you?
Essentially nothing.
It'd cover the 200 EUR for marshall time, and 200 EUR recovery fee. Maybe, or maybe they'd suggest you did more than 8 laps in that day??? who knows.
It wont give you anything toward the poor chap's bike.
(the above happened to me last year, I paid the person in question what they asked for, toward a replacement bike).
Or another incident, you're in a GT3, coolant hose goes off, 4 cars crash behind you on the coolant. What cover do you have against their claims? Again doodly squit.
As I said above, please remove, or rewrite this article, as right now it is a misleading press release which is going to result in confusion, and potentially people being prosecuted by German police for driving without insurance.
This article addresses a single issue. Namely that if you damage the track you have to pay for it, armco replacement bills can run into many thousands of Euros, and for £99 quid you can be covered against that liability.it gives totally the wrong impression - i.e. that you will have insurance cover.
This is not the case, it doesn't cover you for the bare minimum legal requirements for driving on any german road (i.e. no 3rd party cover).
All it is, is a new form of taxation.
£99/day for 8 laps "cover" would be acceptable, if it was cover.
All this gives is:
£10000 towards armco damage.
£10000 towards airlift to hospital
£30000 to your spouse if you die.
So if your power steering hose splits, you spin, manage to avoid hitting anything, and park up beside the track, but in the mean time before you have a chance to flag, a biker goes down on on the fluid your car drops, what does this give you?
Essentially nothing.
It'd cover the 200 EUR for marshall time, and 200 EUR recovery fee. Maybe, or maybe they'd suggest you did more than 8 laps in that day??? who knows.
It wont give you anything toward the poor chap's bike.
(the above happened to me last year, I paid the person in question what they asked for, toward a replacement bike).
Or another incident, you're in a GT3, coolant hose goes off, 4 cars crash behind you on the coolant. What cover do you have against their claims? Again doodly squit.
As I said above, please remove, or rewrite this article, as right now it is a misleading press release which is going to result in confusion, and potentially people being prosecuted by German police for driving without insurance.
I'm pretty sure that will be very clear to anyone who spends the £99, particularly as we've directed readers to the website where they (as you presumably did) can read the full details. Funnily enough I nearly posted the full T&Cs, but then I thought we'd run the risk of being accused of running an advert... Doh!
Is this covered in this policy?
ringweekends said:
Please - read this page again in it's entirety.
AGT Law's guide to Nürburgring Insurance
It clarifies a few points of law surrounding insurance on the Ring.
Interesting link.AGT Law's guide to Nürburgring Insurance
It clarifies a few points of law surrounding insurance on the Ring.
link said:
The Road Traffic Act 1988 prohibits a UK insurer from excluding minimum level cover anywhere in an EU member state in a place where insurance is mandatory. Any clause in an insurance policy seeking to exclude mandatory cover is of no effect; see s. 145(3) and s. 148 of the Road Traffic Act.
The cover required by law is minimum level cover. Therefore, third party only. If you require comprehensive cover then you should ask your insurance broker for this. It is also necessary to inform your insurer that you are travelling to Germany prior to departure. You do not need a Green Card for Germany.
Your insurance policy will probably contain a clause to the effect that if the insurer is obligated to meet a claim it otherwise would not pay then the insurer is entitled to reclaim the settlement from the policy holder. The only recourse in this situation would be to argue that the term is unreasonable therefore subject to the Unfair Contract Terms legislation and not enforceable. This has not been tested in the UK courts with reference to the Nurburgring Nordschleife.
Could somebody please test this in the UK courts (and win) and set a precedent please?The cover required by law is minimum level cover. Therefore, third party only. If you require comprehensive cover then you should ask your insurance broker for this. It is also necessary to inform your insurer that you are travelling to Germany prior to departure. You do not need a Green Card for Germany.
Your insurance policy will probably contain a clause to the effect that if the insurer is obligated to meet a claim it otherwise would not pay then the insurer is entitled to reclaim the settlement from the policy holder. The only recourse in this situation would be to argue that the term is unreasonable therefore subject to the Unfair Contract Terms legislation and not enforceable. This has not been tested in the UK courts with reference to the Nurburgring Nordschleife.
havoc said:
I think ringweekends is trolling a little here, as he sees all this publicity about (effective, ultimate) lack of 3P cover for most UK drivers as very damaging to his business...
...I'd suggest EVERYONE takes his posts with a large helping of salt!
It's a fair point, but certainly not my intention - apologies if I come across this way! ...I'd suggest EVERYONE takes his posts with a large helping of salt!
I spend a fair bit of time at the Ring and sometimes get a little frustrated at common misconceptions and generalisations that gain momentum through web forums. Sometimes the interweb just isn't true! lol! There are some hugely well informed people who have presented reasoned information here based on real experience (as well as me) that appear to be ignored by the bleating fatalistic populist forum fuelled urban legend perpetuating majority! Each case on it's own merits boys - each case on it's own merits. And Dakkon - I hope things work out for you - I trust you've not given up the fight just yet?
For every one person discouraged from going through either misinterpretation of misrepresentation of the actual facts - there are 10 of us that understand the place and continue to love and drive the Nordschleife* and enjoy the fantastic social experience it provides.
I'll leave this alone now - my comments were made more from a personal perspective based on my own experiences than an intent to promote any business interests.
And once again - kudos to Ken for taking steps to provide another insurance solution. I sincerely hope it works out for you Ken.
- I confess to not actually undertaking a survey to establish this fact so it may not be relied upon as gospel truth despite it being on the internet and must therefore be true .....
Edited by ringweekends on Wednesday 22 July 22:45
Collaudatore said:
I'm not going to let it put me off. The way I see it, I will drive as though I'm uninsured - very carefully, but still have fun. As I say, my new insurer does not mention the ring, toll roads, race tracks or anything which indicates it will not pay out if worst comes to the worst, so I will be on as solid ground as I can be, but I still wont be jumping up and down (if you'll excuse the analogy).
Big gamble.cpufreak said:
Or another incident, you're in a GT3, coolant hose goes off, 4 cars crash behind you on the coolant. What cover do you have against their claims? Again doodly squit.
You can drive as carefully as you like - not going to prevent this eventuality.fergus said:
mightyyid said:
I find this all very interesting, but there is of course the other side that as a public road, you drive within your capabilities and keep an eye out of other issues.
However, your car, whilst pootling along "well within your capabilities" spews coolant/oil/PAS fluid, etc on the track.....
And remember: on track, chances are engine working (much) harder than regular driving => cooling system working harder => higher chance of failure.
Edited by monthefish on Wednesday 22 July 13:23
fergus said:
mightyyid said:
I find this all very interesting, but there is of course the other side that as a public road, you drive within your capabilities and keep an eye out of other issues.
However, your car, whilst pootling along "well within your capabilities" spews coolant/oil/PAS fluid, etc on the track.....Or, ergo, on the Ring my car spews out oil, but it could be said that given the nature of the place, everyone on there is or should be driving with far more care than driving just home from work so is more aware of the car in front spewing out oil because they are paying very careful attention, sees it and avoids it.
While a car will definitely be working harder on the Ring in most cases (although some people just drive around at speeds that are what they would do on a normal road), a decent car is unlikely to cause much damage through hoses splitting although of course it can happen.
So, you take extra care when driving the Ring as I originally said, OR you do not drive it, OR you drive your motorbike and it dumps a load of oil on the track and you take out a car. There are many ifs and buts but whatever you say about the extra strain on the car should be countered with the need to exercise far greater caution when driving, and be far more alert than you would on a drive home from work... you take the risks by going on there...
havoc said:
cusimar9 said:
ringweekends said:
As with most things in life, you purchase insurance to your requirements, mine were fully comp insurance for a UK registered car for use on the Nordschleife on Touristenfahrten, which is the cover I have.
PLEASE SHARE - Who are you insured with?...I'd suggest EVERYONE takes his posts with a large helping of salt!
mightyyid said:
Or, ergo, on the Ring my car spews out oil, but it could be said that given the nature of the place, everyone on there is or should be driving with far more care than driving just home from work so is more aware of the car in front spewing out oil because they are paying very careful attention, sees it and avoids it.
While a car will definitely be working harder on the Ring in most cases (although some people just drive around at speeds that are what they would do on a normal road), a decent car is unlikely to cause much damage through hoses splitting although of course it can happen.
Re para 1 above: Imagine you're just driving along a road in winter and you hit black ice. This is akin to jitting a nice patch of coolant. In the majority of cases, you're just a passenger until the cars comes to a stop, however that may be...While a car will definitely be working harder on the Ring in most cases (although some people just drive around at speeds that are what they would do on a normal road), a decent car is unlikely to cause much damage through hoses splitting although of course it can happen.
Re para 2: I've seen a *large* number of cars which spew coolant sporting a Porsche crest on the front.... It's not just old sheds which fall apart, other than the notorious case of an old XJ6 about 2 years ago, which was so blatently negligent I'm surprised he wasn't lynched...
fergus said:
Re para 2: I've seen a *large* number of cars which spew coolant sporting a Porsche crest on the front.... It's not just old sheds which fall apart, other than the notorious case of an old XJ6 about 2 years ago, which was so blatently negligent I'm surprised he wasn't lynched...
I've also had cause to point out leaking coolant to a Porsche owner (while waiting to rejoin a closed track), only to be told that it must be the car in front as his Porsche (a 997) is air-cooled 
mmm-five said:
fergus said:
Re para 2: I've seen a *large* number of cars which spew coolant sporting a Porsche crest on the front.... It's not just old sheds which fall apart, other than the notorious case of an old XJ6 about 2 years ago, which was so blatently negligent I'm surprised he wasn't lynched...
I've also had cause to point out leaking coolant to a Porsche owner (while waiting to rejoin a closed track), only to be told that it must be the car in front as his Porsche (a 997) is air-cooled Unfortunately this probably sums up most modern non RS 911 owners....If,buts,maybe,it doesn't say,its euro law,i don't think anyone and I mean anyone in a UK car is insured properly for the ring its taken the unfortunate few to find out.The only way to find out is to claim and I wouldn't want that on anyone,its a high risk that I have taken and now wonder if the trip I made in April was the last until the insurance issue is resolved.
P
P
Antj said:
i got excited and reached fo the debit card to sort it out for the weekend ( off for trip number 10 ) Two of our party have already had expensive blls, one was lucky and had 1k damage and wrote his car off ( but we amanged to get it 2 miles down the road before he phoned his insurance compnay,,,,,ahem ahem damn stray dogs) the other 6k armco bill and a written off RS4.
However a guy i know had a ding there a few weeks back, went through the usuall take your licence/passport crap howeve once they got back to the office they gave it back to him and he hot footed it away.
However a guy i know had a ding there a few weeks back, went through the usuall take your licence/passport crap howeve once they got back to the office they gave it back to him and he hot footed it away.
@ the honesty of your post.Edited by monthefish on Wednesday 22 July 16:51
AndyMI16 said:
Funnily enough I've been asked about third party cover at the Ring today and I will be ringing a senior motor underwriter within Aviva to get a definitive answer in relation to the public access element (i.e. when the circuit is classified as a public highway and EU Law dictates that a motor insurer cannot exclude cover).
For any who wonder who the heck I am, domster on here knows a bit more about my insurance credentials
We watch with interest.For any who wonder who the heck I am, domster on here knows a bit more about my insurance credentials
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