Nurburgring & Insurance
Discussion
Soovy said:
agtlaw said:
if insurers Bell and Endsleigh merged they could call the new company Soovy. it would probably save embarrassment.
You could save your blushes by telling who you're insured with, rather than trying and failing to score points.Plus, slagging someone off in public is an interesting strategy to get them to spill the beans for your benefit!!!
steve z said:
Soovy said:
agtlaw said:
if insurers Bell and Endsleigh merged they could call the new company Soovy. it would probably save embarrassment.
You could save your blushes by telling who you're insured with, rather than trying and failing to score points.Plus, slagging someone off in public is an interesting strategy to get them to spill the beans for your benefit!!!
Thought I'd give you a belated update. Insurance company would not budge on giving me a definitive statement on the insurance matter at the Nurburgring so I didn't bother going. Can't see the point in risking anything like the level of possible liability and I don't have the finances to burn by hiring a prepped car from BTG or RSR & taking into account their excesses. Cock. Looks like it's Brands/Silverstone and the 325i track car I own 1/4 off will be taken out more.
I've changed insurers as they wanted a crap load more for renewal which apparently nowt to do with the questions, (yeah right!), and the new insurance has it in big letters on the policy "Not covered for use on the Nurburgring Nordschliefe" Pretty clear cut I'd say - other insurers please note! (I wonder if the Sudschliefe can be re-opened?)
Bloody insurers. You all smell.
I've changed insurers as they wanted a crap load more for renewal which apparently nowt to do with the questions, (yeah right!), and the new insurance has it in big letters on the policy "Not covered for use on the Nurburgring Nordschliefe" Pretty clear cut I'd say - other insurers please note! (I wonder if the Sudschliefe can be re-opened?)
Bloody insurers. You all smell.
Fireblade69 said:
Thought I'd give you a belated update. Insurance company would not budge on giving me a definitive statement on the insurance matter at the Nurburgring so I didn't bother going. Can't see the point in risking anything like the level of possible liability and I don't have the finances to burn by hiring a prepped car from BTG or RSR & taking into account their excesses. Cock. Looks like it's Brands/Silverstone and the 325i track car I own 1/4 off will be taken out more.
I've changed insurers as they wanted a crap load more for renewal which apparently nowt to do with the questions, (yeah right!), and the new insurance has it in big letters on the policy "Not covered for use on the Nurburgring Nordschliefe" Pretty clear cut I'd say - other insurers please note! (I wonder if the Sudschliefe can be re-opened?)
Bloody insurers. You all smell.
A mate and I had to cancel our plans to go too for this exact reason. We were gutted but the risk and liabilities were just too great.I've changed insurers as they wanted a crap load more for renewal which apparently nowt to do with the questions, (yeah right!), and the new insurance has it in big letters on the policy "Not covered for use on the Nurburgring Nordschliefe" Pretty clear cut I'd say - other insurers please note! (I wonder if the Sudschliefe can be re-opened?)
Bloody insurers. You all smell.
I hope one day I have the balls to go if only to do 1 lap just to say I've done it.
After a few hours of ringing round I've abandoned the search for a suitable insurer. The only one I found was Mannings, but they'll only cover Porsche and TVR owners. Buying a Porsche or TVR just to get insurance on the ring seems strangely counter intuitive!
I too have decided that it's no longer worth the risk. On a very busy TF day the chances of hitting something expensive I'd say are still pretty low, but given that in experience there are 7 911 GT3's per square foot of track space (seriously, they're bloody everywhere...) it's only a matter of time.
Next year I'm going to bag a swift from Rent4Ring. Should be a huge amount of fun for a reasonable price, and comes with an excess that won't require a remortgage should I cripple an olympic gold medal winner in his Veyron.
I too have decided that it's no longer worth the risk. On a very busy TF day the chances of hitting something expensive I'd say are still pretty low, but given that in experience there are 7 911 GT3's per square foot of track space (seriously, they're bloody everywhere...) it's only a matter of time.
Next year I'm going to bag a swift from Rent4Ring. Should be a huge amount of fun for a reasonable price, and comes with an excess that won't require a remortgage should I cripple an olympic gold medal winner in his Veyron.
mk1matt said:
After a few hours of ringing round I've abandoned the search for a suitable insurer. The only one I found was Mannings, but they'll only cover Porsche and TVR owners. Buying a Porsche or TVR just to get insurance on the ring seems strangely counter intuitive!
I too have decided that it's no longer worth the risk. On a very busy TF day the chances of hitting something expensive I'd say are still pretty low, but given that in experience there are 7 911 GT3's per square foot of track space (seriously, they're bloody everywhere...) it's only a matter of time.
Next year I'm going to bag a swift from Rent4Ring. Should be a huge amount of fun for a reasonable price, and comes with an excess that won't require a remortgage should I cripple an olympic gold medal winner in his Veyron.
When i went a few times in 2006 there were a few hire cars on track. A month ago I saw about 30. Its a big business now. I too have decided that it's no longer worth the risk. On a very busy TF day the chances of hitting something expensive I'd say are still pretty low, but given that in experience there are 7 911 GT3's per square foot of track space (seriously, they're bloody everywhere...) it's only a matter of time.
Next year I'm going to bag a swift from Rent4Ring. Should be a huge amount of fun for a reasonable price, and comes with an excess that won't require a remortgage should I cripple an olympic gold medal winner in his Veyron.
I must say i wondered if I'd both with TF days any more. Constant closures all day due to (mostly) stupid brits binning it in the sodding dry means its just a frustrating day.
I wonder how many of them were insured?
The standard of driving has dropped further in four years as well. Overly enthusiastic can't-drive brits are even more in evidence, but its the bloody arrogant german 911s that take the biscuit. My friend in his own car got taken out by the same red german GT3 that almost had me a lap or two earlier, overtaking mid-corner with no warning whatsoever. I saw the guy coming and thought I'd finish the corner I was in the middle of (downhill triple-apex right-hander before Breidscheid entrance) and move over but then by the second apex he wasnt in my mirror any more and it was a little shocking to look out the side window instead and see him. A bit unnecessary, and the closest I've ever come to contact with another car. Had i been in a proper hurry, instead of learning the track again after years away, I'd have been apexing-and-drifting those corners like you do, and it would have been bad. Sure enough, he overtakes my buddy at the beginning of a corner when my friend is turning in - result: two broken cars and the police rule it 50-50 (my friend should have been on the right as he was being overtaken, even if he didn't know he was being overtaken) and everyone pays for their own damage. My friend has a repair bill of....ohh, we all thought 5-10 grand....and it wasn't his fault. All he did was turn in. It could easily have been me.
Combine that with the utter lack of investment in the Nordschleife since I last went (millions spent elsewhere, but those two piddling little car parks havent got any bigger, and the overflow car park is still a muddy field) and its a bit s
t these days. The surrounding roads have no chance of coping with the utter gridlock that comes with every open and shut of the track due to accident.My advice? Go rent a car, its the best way. People have a sharp intake of breath at the 5000 euro excess for a Clio 200 but binning your own car will cost you much more.
I've been twice this year once in the S2000 and once I hired a swift from rent4ring.
I'd definitely hire a car again, I think the rent4ring swifts are good value and although not quick in a straight line they are well set up for the ring, I don't think I was getting the S2000 round there much quicker.
I'd definitely hire a car again, I think the rent4ring swifts are good value and although not quick in a straight line they are well set up for the ring, I don't think I was getting the S2000 round there much quicker.
Fireblade69 said:
Thought I'd give you a belated update. Insurance company would not budge on giving me a definitive statement on the insurance matter at the Nurburgring so I didn't bother going. Can't see the point in risking anything like the level of possible liability and I don't have the finances to burn by hiring a prepped car from BTG or RSR & taking into account their excesses. Cock. Looks like it's Brands/Silverstone and the 325i track car I own 1/4 off will be taken out more.
I've changed insurers as they wanted a crap load more for renewal which apparently nowt to do with the questions, (yeah right!), and the new insurance has it in big letters on the policy "Not covered for use on the Nurburgring Nordschliefe" Pretty clear cut I'd say - other insurers please note! (I wonder if the Sudschliefe can be re-opened?)
Bloody insurers. You all smell.
I don't understad the last comment, as insurers do try to keep premiums down by excluding cover that only the minority (and a small minority at that) want. There would've been specialist insurers who could offer standalone cover, but claims levels & costs must have reached a point where the cover becomes uneconomical to offer, so it's excluded.I've changed insurers as they wanted a crap load more for renewal which apparently nowt to do with the questions, (yeah right!), and the new insurance has it in big letters on the policy "Not covered for use on the Nurburgring Nordschliefe" Pretty clear cut I'd say - other insurers please note! (I wonder if the Sudschliefe can be re-opened?)
Bloody insurers. You all smell.
The fact that some insurers have resorted to explicitly excluding it, suggests that this may be the case.
Look at it this way, would we all want to pay for cover that includes £5000 for stereo equipment, commercial insurance, unlimited mileage, no opportunity to flex excesses, £1000 for baby seats and there'll be a lot more that I can't think of.
gordonc said:
morris
Assuming you mean Moris the insurance company, and its not your suggestion for the ideal DRT, then Moris do not offer third party cover for TF days (first party only), so not really a solution. Pretty sure it was discussed previously (and probably extensively) in this thread.R1 Loon said:
Fireblade69 said:
Thought I'd give you a belated update. Insurance company would not budge on giving me a definitive statement on the insurance matter at the Nurburgring so I didn't bother going. Can't see the point in risking anything like the level of possible liability and I don't have the finances to burn by hiring a prepped car from BTG or RSR & taking into account their excesses. Cock. Looks like it's Brands/Silverstone and the 325i track car I own 1/4 off will be taken out more.
I've changed insurers as they wanted a crap load more for renewal which apparently nowt to do with the questions, (yeah right!), and the new insurance has it in big letters on the policy "Not covered for use on the Nurburgring Nordschliefe" Pretty clear cut I'd say - other insurers please note! (I wonder if the Sudschliefe can be re-opened?)
Bloody insurers. You all smell.
I don't understad the last comment, as insurers do try to keep premiums down by excluding cover that only the minority (and a small minority at that) want. There would've been specialist insurers who could offer standalone cover, but claims levels & costs must have reached a point where the cover becomes uneconomical to offer, so it's excluded.I've changed insurers as they wanted a crap load more for renewal which apparently nowt to do with the questions, (yeah right!), and the new insurance has it in big letters on the policy "Not covered for use on the Nurburgring Nordschliefe" Pretty clear cut I'd say - other insurers please note! (I wonder if the Sudschliefe can be re-opened?)
Bloody insurers. You all smell.
The fact that some insurers have resorted to explicitly excluding it, suggests that this may be the case.
Look at it this way, would we all want to pay for cover that includes £5000 for stereo equipment, commercial insurance, unlimited mileage, no opportunity to flex excesses, £1000 for baby seats and there'll be a lot more that I can't think of.
king insurers this is what happened to me this year:Some complete
in a Corsa turning right on a roundabout from the left hand lane, (left or straight ahead only), clipped the bumper of my car then failed to stop. I went down the cop shop to report it as is my legal requirement and he was there so we exchanged details. Damage to my car - light scratch that I wasn't worried about. Next thing I know, insurance letter from his insurer saying that I had tried to run him of the road and he was claiming for a dented door and scratches all down the side. My insurers steps in, argues the evidence and the 3rd party claim is dismissed. I let my insurer know that I didn't want to claim it because as far as I was concerned it wasn't anything to do with me and I the damage was very light.Renewal time. Went through all the claims & convictions, (no convictions since 1996 and all claims are not at fault - hit by rock falling from lorry, driven into on the M4, car hit whilst parked), but left that one off because I thought it wasn't relevant. When they checked up, they said that there was a claim I hadn't mentioned. I said it was no claim and the insurers had dismissed it and the guy said that it was still an accident. I argued that people driving into me and then trying to make a fraudulant claim shouldn't really count seeing as I had not claimed as I could have. Apparently it still counts. So what is the end result of someone breaking the highway code, driving into you and then trying to make a fraudulant claim against you? That'll be an extra £103.00 on your premium please sir!!!
Someone else made a claim against me for reversing into their car in Southend which I spent a while arguing. Half a dozen phone calls, 2 witness statements and loads of emails later they finally agreed that I had not reversed into someone in Southend. My evidence was pretty good though:
1) I have never, ever been to Southend. Ever.
2) I was on the M1 in Derby at the time in question.
3) I had about a dozen witnesses.
4) The reg number they had, (and the reason I couldn't have reversed into them), was from my f
king Honda Fireblade!I was on the way back from the Rock & Blues Custom Show
I don't like insurers and I have good reasons.
End rant...
Fireblade69 said:
A rant...
Good rant.Interesting that you blame your insurers for the second "claim", even though they will have had nothing to do with it.
first one, I'd suggest having a look through the b
ks that gets spouted on ths forum to help people who are clearly at fault in an accident drag it out and try to get some blame on an innocent driver.Final piece is that there is absolutely no way you know that the extra £103 was for this incident. People seem to think that insurance is only a deflationary product, whereas everything else can rise in cost.
You are already at maximum NCD, all premiums are rising, so that may explain it. But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of a good rant.
Tell me what industry you work in and I'll have a good rant about that, even if everything I rant about is flawed.
R1 Loon said:
Fireblade69 said:
A rant...
Good rant.Interesting that you blame your insurers for the second "claim", even though they will have had nothing to do with it.
first one, I'd suggest having a look through the b
ks that gets spouted on ths forum to help people who are clearly at fault in an accident drag it out and try to get some blame on an innocent driver.Final piece is that there is absolutely no way you know that the extra £103 was for this incident. People seem to think that insurance is only a deflationary product, whereas everything else can rise in cost.
You are already at maximum NCD, all premiums are rising, so that may explain it. But hey, don't let the truth get in the way of a good rant.
Tell me what industry you work in and I'll have a good rant about that, even if everything I rant about is flawed.
Secondly, I do know that that amount is how much was added on because I went through the whole quote process and I was quoted a premium at X value, when they checked the claim record they found that I had not mentioned that roundabout incident but all the others were 100% spot on. The re-quote came back as X + £103.00 so using my advanced powers of deduction, I worked it out.
Because of these penises that keep driving into me or dropping rocks of the back of a lorry, my 'protected' NCD has been slashed by 50% for this year. FFS.
Check your facts or read the posts properly before you get up on the soap box.
I work in the call centre industry, I doubt you'll be short of ammo on that.
Fireblade69 said:
I didn't blame my insurers for the 2nd claim, the only thing they did wrong was take 18 months to get my excess back. I didn't try and apportion blame and it was merely a 'for reference' so I have no idea where you got that idea from.
Secondly, I do know that that amount is how much was added on because I went through the whole quote process and I was quoted a premium at X value, when they checked the claim record they found that I had not mentioned that roundabout incident but all the others were 100% spot on. The re-quote came back as X + £103.00 so using my advanced powers of deduction, I worked it out.
Because of these penises that keep driving into me or dropping rocks of the back of a lorry, my 'protected' NCD has been slashed by 50% for this year. FFS.
Check your facts or read the posts properly before you get up on the soap box.
I work in the call centre industry, I doubt you'll be short of ammo on that.
OK, the insurers are not liable for recovering your excess, that's your problem, as it's effectively self-insured. You can use the Legal Expenses aspect to recover it, although that may have been purchased as a bolt-on to your insurance it is a standalone policy.Secondly, I do know that that amount is how much was added on because I went through the whole quote process and I was quoted a premium at X value, when they checked the claim record they found that I had not mentioned that roundabout incident but all the others were 100% spot on. The re-quote came back as X + £103.00 so using my advanced powers of deduction, I worked it out.
Because of these penises that keep driving into me or dropping rocks of the back of a lorry, my 'protected' NCD has been slashed by 50% for this year. FFS.
Check your facts or read the posts properly before you get up on the soap box.
I work in the call centre industry, I doubt you'll be short of ammo on that.
Fair enough on the calculations. Insurance is a statistical probability industry, so you may find that that statistically the probability of a claim is increased if you suffer a non-fault accident.
Call Centre industry? Don't get me started. All they're interested in is Erlangs and Service Level. Put you to the back of the queue if you've waited longer than 20 seconds fro the call to be answered, as you mess up their percentages.
All they do is read scripts. God help you if you don't fit their Indian based decision trees.
16 tiers of IVRs, none of which let you speak to a person.
I wonder how many more urban myths, I can come up with?
Call Centre people, you all smell;)
Denial based on 'prepared course' is an interesting one. Does this mean that driving on the public roads during Isle of Man TT week is now not insured, since the roads are 'prepared' for racing, but drivable by the public on several occasions and are also 'part prepared' for many days before/after the actual races. The same applies to Monaco, as well.
In reality, unless you can get your insurer to agree, the only certain way of being fully insured is to buy/register a car in Germany and get German insurance which fully covers everything.
Another method to limit your personal exposure would be to setup a UK Ltd company whose only asset was the car and insure it. In the event of a crash the insurer would have to pay third party and would only have comeback against the company, which of course now has no assets other than a smashed car. At least this extinguishes the potential comeback of the third-party liabilities.
In reality, unless you can get your insurer to agree, the only certain way of being fully insured is to buy/register a car in Germany and get German insurance which fully covers everything.
Another method to limit your personal exposure would be to setup a UK Ltd company whose only asset was the car and insure it. In the event of a crash the insurer would have to pay third party and would only have comeback against the company, which of course now has no assets other than a smashed car. At least this extinguishes the potential comeback of the third-party liabilities.
Guyr said:
Another method to limit your personal exposure would be to setup a UK Ltd company whose only asset was the car and insure it... At least this extinguishes the potential comeback of the third-party liabilities.
do you not insure the driver rather than the car in the uk, regardless of whether the car is owned privately or as part of a business?Guyr said:
Another method to limit your personal exposure would be to setup a UK Ltd company whose only asset was the car and insure it. In the event of a crash the insurer would have to pay third party and would only have comeback against the company, which of course now has no assets other than a smashed car. At least this extinguishes the potential comeback of the third-party liabilities.
Won't work. The insurer is not indemnifying you for TP losses, they are merely complying ith RTA obligations to honour TP claims. They still have the right of recovery against you, the company, or the directors of said company if you choose to liquidate it and the driver of the vehicle at the time.R1 Loon said:
Won't work. The insurer is not indemnifying you for TP losses, they are merely complying ith RTA obligations to honour TP claims. They still have the right of recovery against you, the company, or the directors of said company if you choose to liquidate it and the driver of the vehicle at the time.
There is no right of recourse to company directors, as thats the point of a Ltd company ie all recourse stops with the company. If the insured was the company on a policy that allowed any driver I'm not sure how they'd have recourse to the driver either.Anyway, I'm just floating this idea, I doubt anyone will do it and if it was me I'd go down the German registration route. That said I still just drive uninsured there, but am getting very annoyed with TF days anyway.
Guyr said:
There is no right of recourse to company directors, as thats the point of a Ltd company ie all recourse stops with the company. If the insured was the company on a policy that allowed any driver I'm not sure how they'd have recourse to the driver either.
Anyway, I'm just floating this idea, I doubt anyone will do it and if it was me I'd go down the German registration route. That said I still just drive uninsured there, but am getting very annoyed with TF days anyway.
OK, I'm no expert on company structuring, so I'll yield on that one. However, as it's a non-standard risk, then the underwriters would probably shy away from the risk (ie not offer cover) once they understand it's sole purpose is to provide first party cover, whilst leaving them with the TP liability aspect.Anyway, I'm just floating this idea, I doubt anyone will do it and if it was me I'd go down the German registration route. That said I still just drive uninsured there, but am getting very annoyed with TF days anyway.
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