RE: 'Ring Insurance Could Save You £1000s
Discussion
So if your accident writes off two F430 Scuderias, for example, how much are you liable for? As I understand it this only pays e10,000.
If instead you say the risk is of a e1,000 dent in the barrier is it really worth it? With a £100 premium, an excess of e300 and the requirement to book an inspection (at cost) before you travel you've paid a quarter of the damages already for what's hopefully a less than 1 in 4 chance of stacking?
Only glanced at it, but I may have misread it, but it sounds like it covers you for the sort of amounts most people could absorb, yet it doesn't cover you for that Veyron you happen to clip.
If instead you say the risk is of a e1,000 dent in the barrier is it really worth it? With a £100 premium, an excess of e300 and the requirement to book an inspection (at cost) before you travel you've paid a quarter of the damages already for what's hopefully a less than 1 in 4 chance of stacking?
Only glanced at it, but I may have misread it, but it sounds like it covers you for the sort of amounts most people could absorb, yet it doesn't cover you for that Veyron you happen to clip.
Chris-R said:
pikey said:
This isn't an article, it's an advert and a misleading one at that.
I would question what this gives a driver over their standard European third party liability. I would expect in the majority of cases, very little, but the detail is in an individual's specific cover.
It's not an advert, obviously, and my understanding is that anyone insuring a road car through a UK insurer will find laps of the Nurburgring (a race track) are not covered. Do you believe this to be incorrect? I would question what this gives a driver over their standard European third party liability. I would expect in the majority of cases, very little, but the detail is in an individual's specific cover.
The fact is a UK insurance policy's cover at the Nurburgring is both complex and individual and one can't make sweeping statements. I've been going for the past 9 years and know many people who've had claims in different circumstances.
For example:
- Driver thought he was uninsured, crashed and heavily damaged his Italian supercar. Tried to claim, insurance company dismissed. He read through the policy, realised lack of exclusion working and challenged (he was a lawyer). Bit of nasty stuff back and forth but they covered.
- Driver had 'no derestricted tollroads' in his policy wording. Wrote off 6 month old M3, insurance company told him to go away. He obtained lawyer with prior experience, challenged and insurance replaced the car. (But they loaded future policies so much he couldn't afford to keep it!)
- Driver had 'no Nurburgring' in the exclusion wording. So VERY clear for them! He crashed with huge armco damage & closure so the bill was horrific. He was in a shed, didn't have the money and had no way of getting the money. Nurburg went after his UK insurers and got a pay out. Insurers went after him. (don't know how that one ended)
- Driver crashed with armco & third party damage but with no derestricted toll roads & no track days in the wording. Nurburg GmBH provided proof that it was operating as a public road, with restrictions and under European law not possible to exclude German public road 3rd party liability.
jvr said:
everyone is clearly taking a calculated gamble
I dont think its calculated at all, I think there's a lot of ignorance to the real situation.This is news story is very disappointing but, to be honest, somewhat inevitable.
I'd been following the story of this company with great interest but as I had suspected - there is no 3rd party cover here so Im still unable to return to the ring in my own car
I've been a couple of times before and do love the place, but as the classic example goes, if my car drops fluid and causes injury to a biker then the reality of being found liable for an unlimited payout claim (ie, losing the house, becoming bankrupt) is too great to justify.
Only solution I can see is to get UK insurers to accept its status as a public road - but that aint gonna happen.
What a lot of misleading info there is in here. 
Loving the "it's free for all" comment. 
They way I look at it is this:
You need 3rd party cover, not only for cover against hitting or causing someone else to crash. This is hard to find. There is no hard and fast rule that you will be covered by your UK policy, however I is unlikely that if your policy doesn't state that you are not covered on "one way toll roads" or "Nurburgring" you should be ok. That's a risk you take though.
As far as the case where it was found in favour of the Insurance company, I've not seen enough details about what was claimed for or the incident to be able to say if it will set precedent in all future cases or not.
As for this insurance, it seems a little steep purely for barrier damage and one day.
I mainly go on evening sessions and do 4 at a time. £99 a day plus the inspection for that is a bloody lot of money.
Loving the "it's free for all" comment. They way I look at it is this:
You need 3rd party cover, not only for cover against hitting or causing someone else to crash. This is hard to find. There is no hard and fast rule that you will be covered by your UK policy, however I is unlikely that if your policy doesn't state that you are not covered on "one way toll roads" or "Nurburgring" you should be ok. That's a risk you take though.
As far as the case where it was found in favour of the Insurance company, I've not seen enough details about what was claimed for or the incident to be able to say if it will set precedent in all future cases or not.
As for this insurance, it seems a little steep purely for barrier damage and one day.
I mainly go on evening sessions and do 4 at a time. £99 a day plus the inspection for that is a bloody lot of money.
pistonheads please can you remove this misleading article.
it gives totally the wrong impression - i.e. that you will have insurance cover.
This is not the case, it doesn't cover you for the bare minimum legal requirements for driving on any german road (i.e. no 3rd party cover).
All it is, is a new form of taxation.
£99/day for 8 laps "cover" would be acceptable, if it was cover.
All this gives is:
£10000 towards armco damage.
£10000 towards airlift to hospital
£30000 to your spouse if you die.
So if your power steering hose splits, you spin, manage to avoid hitting anything, and park up beside the track, but in the mean time before you have a chance to flag, a biker goes down on on the fluid your car drops, what does this give you?
Essentially nothing.
It'd cover the 200 EUR for marshall time, and 200 EUR recovery fee. Maybe, or maybe they'd suggest you did more than 8 laps in that day??? who knows.
It wont give you anything toward the poor chap's bike.
(the above happened to me last year, I paid the person in question what they asked for, toward a replacement bike).
Or another incident, you're in a GT3, coolant hose goes off, 4 cars crash behind you on the coolant. What cover do you have against their claims? Again doodly squit.
As I said above, please remove, or rewrite this article, as right now it is a misleading press release which is going to result in confusion, and potentially people being prosecuted by German police for driving without insurance.
it gives totally the wrong impression - i.e. that you will have insurance cover.
This is not the case, it doesn't cover you for the bare minimum legal requirements for driving on any german road (i.e. no 3rd party cover).
All it is, is a new form of taxation.
£99/day for 8 laps "cover" would be acceptable, if it was cover.
All this gives is:
£10000 towards armco damage.
£10000 towards airlift to hospital
£30000 to your spouse if you die.
So if your power steering hose splits, you spin, manage to avoid hitting anything, and park up beside the track, but in the mean time before you have a chance to flag, a biker goes down on on the fluid your car drops, what does this give you?
Essentially nothing.
It'd cover the 200 EUR for marshall time, and 200 EUR recovery fee. Maybe, or maybe they'd suggest you did more than 8 laps in that day??? who knows.
It wont give you anything toward the poor chap's bike.
(the above happened to me last year, I paid the person in question what they asked for, toward a replacement bike).
Or another incident, you're in a GT3, coolant hose goes off, 4 cars crash behind you on the coolant. What cover do you have against their claims? Again doodly squit.
As I said above, please remove, or rewrite this article, as right now it is a misleading press release which is going to result in confusion, and potentially people being prosecuted by German police for driving without insurance.
Here are some FACTS about the Nurburgring and your UK insurance policy:
http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/nurburgring_insura...
http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/nurburgring_insura...
pikey said:
Chris-R said:
pikey said:
This isn't an article, it's an advert and a misleading one at that.
I would question what this gives a driver over their standard European third party liability. I would expect in the majority of cases, very little, but the detail is in an individual's specific cover.
It's not an advert, obviously, and my understanding is that anyone insuring a road car through a UK insurer will find laps of the Nurburgring (a race track) are not covered. Do you believe this to be incorrect? I would question what this gives a driver over their standard European third party liability. I would expect in the majority of cases, very little, but the detail is in an individual's specific cover.
The fact is a UK insurance policy's cover at the Nurburgring is both complex and individual and one can't make sweeping statements. I've been going for the past 9 years and know many people who've had claims in different circumstances.
For example:
- Driver thought he was uninsured, crashed and heavily damaged his Italian supercar. Tried to claim, insurance company dismissed. He read through the policy, realised lack of exclusion working and challenged (he was a lawyer). Bit of nasty stuff back and forth but they covered.
- Driver had 'no derestricted tollroads' in his policy wording. Wrote off 6 month old M3, insurance company told him to go away. He obtained lawyer with prior experience, challenged and insurance replaced the car. (But they loaded future policies so much he couldn't afford to keep it!)
- Driver had 'no Nurburgring' in the exclusion wording. So VERY clear for them! He crashed with huge armco damage & closure so the bill was horrific. He was in a shed, didn't have the money and had no way of getting the money. Nurburg went after his UK insurers and got a pay out. Insurers went after him. (don't know how that one ended)
- Driver crashed with armco & third party damage but with no derestricted toll roads & no track days in the wording. Nurburg GmBH provided proof that it was operating as a public road, with restrictions and under European law not possible to exclude German public road 3rd party liability.
So if there are so many uninsured drivers on the Ring, why are German Plod not there checking documents? Or even Nurburgring Ltd (or whatever they are these days)
Seems a bit like they all turn a blind eye to a big problem. Not a nice thing considering the price they charge to let you on there... they could at least make sure others sharing the road with your are covered if they smash your car into little bits or injur you badly!?
Hmmm
Dave
Seems a bit like they all turn a blind eye to a big problem. Not a nice thing considering the price they charge to let you on there... they could at least make sure others sharing the road with your are covered if they smash your car into little bits or injur you badly!?
Hmmm
Dave
Last time I went to the Ring my insurers were adamant I/the car wasnt covered under their policy, but on pushing the point they begrudgingly accepted that I was covered for 3rd party.
TBH, I much prefer to save my pennies up for Spa TDs coz a) I AM insured under my policy, and b) its (IMHO) a much better track to drive/learn (unless you are out to the Ring every other weekend)
TBH, I much prefer to save my pennies up for Spa TDs coz a) I AM insured under my policy, and b) its (IMHO) a much better track to drive/learn (unless you are out to the Ring every other weekend)
ridds said:
What a lot of misleading info there is in here. Loving the "it's free for all" comment.
You need 3rd party cover, not only for cover against hitting or causing someone else to crash. This is hard to find. There is no hard and fast rule that you will be covered by your UK policy, however I is unlikely that if your policy doesn't state that you are not covered on "one way toll roads" or "Nurburgring" you should be ok. That's a risk you take though.
As far as the case where it was found in favour of the Insurance company, I've not seen enough details about what was claimed for or the incident to be able to say if it will set precedent in all future cases or not.
What else would you need 3rd party cover for, if it wasn't for causing damage to someelse/their propery? Loving the "it's free for all" comment. You need 3rd party cover, not only for cover against hitting or causing someone else to crash. This is hard to find. There is no hard and fast rule that you will be covered by your UK policy, however I is unlikely that if your policy doesn't state that you are not covered on "one way toll roads" or "Nurburgring" you should be ok. That's a risk you take though.
As far as the case where it was found in favour of the Insurance company, I've not seen enough details about what was claimed for or the incident to be able to say if it will set precedent in all future cases or not.
I only stated a precedent had been set, not that it would necesserily apply to future cases. Look at the definition for "precedent"!Dale - the info in your link is already known?! Has Jamie of Auteg MS moved in with you guys?
Mr Whippy said:
So if there are so many uninsured drivers on the Ring, why are German Plod not there checking documents? Or even Nurburgring Ltd (or whatever they are these days)
Seems a bit like they all turn a blind eye to a big problem. Not a nice thing considering the price they charge to let you on there... they could at least make sure others sharing the road with your are covered if they smash your car into little bits or injur you badly!?
Because, if as per the Xth EU directive, insurers are obliged to pay out in the event of a claim, you are covered. However, whether your insurers then decide to sue you to recoup their loss is an entirely seperate matterSeems a bit like they all turn a blind eye to a big problem. Not a nice thing considering the price they charge to let you on there... they could at least make sure others sharing the road with your are covered if they smash your car into little bits or injur you badly!?
Its interesting that the advert is promoted by a local Motorsport firm who will no doubt get a right rake off of cash from 'checking' cars over for a policy that simply covers a bit of damage to the barriers. And you have to buy the policy before you are able to read the small print and exclusions....no thanks.
When I took my Tuscan there a couple of years back,first time i went on the track on that trip they pulled me after the barriers to check 'my papers'they looked at my licence and insurance.Now they must have known that although I had my fully comp insurance certificate with me it wouldn't cover the ring but they have ticked a box and checked.Gmph are happy to take your money and turn a blind eye until you have an off...
P
P
jvr said:
When I took my Tuscan there a couple of years back,first time i went on the track on that trip they pulled me after the barriers to check 'my papers'they looked at my licence and insurance.Now they must have known that although I had my fully comp insurance certificate with me it wouldn't cover the ring but they have ticked a box and checked.Gmph are happy to take your money and turn a blind eye until you have an off...
P
Looking at that link above, it would sugest that any policy which provides 3rd party (european?) cover has to provide that cover on the 'ring (tourest days). P
Whether or not your insurance company sue your a$$ off on your return to Blighty is of no consequece to the 'rings operators or the German Plod.
Edited by Mr_Yogi on Tuesday 21st July 15:24
Mr_Yogi said:
jvr said:
When I took my Tuscan there a couple of years back,first time i went on the track on that trip they pulled me after the barriers to check 'my papers'they looked at my licence and insurance.Now they must have known that although I had my fully comp insurance certificate with me it wouldn't cover the ring but they have ticked a box and checked.Gmph are happy to take your money and turn a blind eye until you have an off...
P
Looking at that link above, it would sugest that any policy which provides 3rd party (european?) cover has to provide that cover on the 'ring (tourest days). P
Weather or not your insurance comapny sue your a$$ off on your return to Blighty is of no consequece to the 'rings operators or the German Plod.
fergus said:
Mr_Yogi said:
jvr said:
When I took my Tuscan there a couple of years back,first time i went on the track on that trip they pulled me after the barriers to check 'my papers'they looked at my licence and insurance.Now they must have known that although I had my fully comp insurance certificate with me it wouldn't cover the ring but they have ticked a box and checked.Gmph are happy to take your money and turn a blind eye until you have an off...
P
Looking at that link above, it would sugest that any policy which provides 3rd party (european?) cover has to provide that cover on the 'ring (tourest days). P
Weather or not your insurance comapny sue your a$$ off on your return to Blighty is of no consequece to the 'rings operators or the German Plod.
still a great place though
P
LOOK CLOSER TO HOME..I was hit in the UK by a Polish driver in a Polish registered car who had 3rd party Polish Insurance. Despite independent witnesses
it took 15 months for me to recover my losses from the Motor Insurance Bureau and once DIRECT LINE had been paid out the c****s left me to pursue the MIB on my own, needless to say they didn't get my renewal but the splendid people at Adrian Flux did.
it took 15 months for me to recover my losses from the Motor Insurance Bureau and once DIRECT LINE had been paid out the c****s left me to pursue the MIB on my own, needless to say they didn't get my renewal but the splendid people at Adrian Flux did.
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