RE: 'Ring Insurance Could Save You £1000s
Discussion
BBS-LM said:
So does anyone at PH have any real world reports on Blogs and Car Forum about what happens when you have a Crash at the Ring.
Yes but each crash has a number of specific differences. And as such identical crashes with different insurers (or the same company but a different policy) can have different outcomes.Some people have crashed and got payouts. Some people have crashed and been persued for all costs by their insurer despite no exclusions for the nurburgring on their policy.
There is no single answer to your question. And I only know because a very good friend of mine did crash. And as it's still ongoing I'll say no more. Except to say unless your insurer confirms to you that you will be covered for 3rd party costs and they will NOT persue you if they have to pay out, hire a "ring rental" car. And thats not because you shouldn't be covered. It's just because it's less hasle if something does go wrong (assuming you can find €10000).
cpufreak said:
pistonheads please can you remove this misleading article.
it gives totally the wrong impression - i.e. that you will have insurance cover.
This is not the case, it doesn't cover you for the bare minimum legal requirements for driving on any german road (i.e. no 3rd party cover).
All it is, is a new form of taxation.
£99/day for 8 laps "cover" would be acceptable, if it was cover.
All this gives is:
£10000 towards armco damage.
£10000 towards airlift to hospital
£30000 to your spouse if you die.
So if your power steering hose splits, you spin, manage to avoid hitting anything, and park up beside the track, but in the mean time before you have a chance to flag, a biker goes down on on the fluid your car drops, what does this give you?
Essentially nothing.
It'd cover the 200 EUR for marshall time, and 200 EUR recovery fee. Maybe, or maybe they'd suggest you did more than 8 laps in that day??? who knows.
It wont give you anything toward the poor chap's bike.
(the above happened to me last year, I paid the person in question what they asked for, toward a replacement bike).
Or another incident, you're in a GT3, coolant hose goes off, 4 cars crash behind you on the coolant. What cover do you have against their claims? Again doodly squit.
As I said above, please remove, or rewrite this article, as right now it is a misleading press release which is going to result in confusion, and potentially people being prosecuted by German police for driving without insurance.
This article addresses a single issue. Namely that if you damage the track you have to pay for it, armco replacement bills can run into many thousands of Euros, and for £99 quid you can be covered against that liability.it gives totally the wrong impression - i.e. that you will have insurance cover.
This is not the case, it doesn't cover you for the bare minimum legal requirements for driving on any german road (i.e. no 3rd party cover).
All it is, is a new form of taxation.
£99/day for 8 laps "cover" would be acceptable, if it was cover.
All this gives is:
£10000 towards armco damage.
£10000 towards airlift to hospital
£30000 to your spouse if you die.
So if your power steering hose splits, you spin, manage to avoid hitting anything, and park up beside the track, but in the mean time before you have a chance to flag, a biker goes down on on the fluid your car drops, what does this give you?
Essentially nothing.
It'd cover the 200 EUR for marshall time, and 200 EUR recovery fee. Maybe, or maybe they'd suggest you did more than 8 laps in that day??? who knows.
It wont give you anything toward the poor chap's bike.
(the above happened to me last year, I paid the person in question what they asked for, toward a replacement bike).
Or another incident, you're in a GT3, coolant hose goes off, 4 cars crash behind you on the coolant. What cover do you have against their claims? Again doodly squit.
As I said above, please remove, or rewrite this article, as right now it is a misleading press release which is going to result in confusion, and potentially people being prosecuted by German police for driving without insurance.
I'm pretty sure that will be very clear to anyone who spends the £99, particularly as we've directed readers to the website where they (as you presumably did) can read the full details. Funnily enough I nearly posted the full T&Cs, but then I thought we'd run the risk of being accused of running an advert... Doh!
)fergus said:
ridds said:
What a lot of misleading info there is in here. 
Loving the "it's free for all" comment. 
You need 3rd party cover, not only for cover against hitting or causing someone else to crash. This is hard to find. There is no hard and fast rule that you will be covered by your UK policy, however I is unlikely that if your policy doesn't state that you are not covered on "one way toll roads" or "Nurburgring" you should be ok. That's a risk you take though.
As far as the case where it was found in favour of the Insurance company, I've not seen enough details about what was claimed for or the incident to be able to say if it will set precedent in all future cases or not.
What else would you need 3rd party cover for, if it wasn't for causing damage to someelse/their propery? Loving the "it's free for all" comment. You need 3rd party cover, not only for cover against hitting or causing someone else to crash. This is hard to find. There is no hard and fast rule that you will be covered by your UK policy, however I is unlikely that if your policy doesn't state that you are not covered on "one way toll roads" or "Nurburgring" you should be ok. That's a risk you take though.
As far as the case where it was found in favour of the Insurance company, I've not seen enough details about what was claimed for or the incident to be able to say if it will set precedent in all future cases or not.
I only stated a precedent had been set, not that it would necesserily apply to future cases. Look at the definition for "precedent"!Dale - the info in your link is already known?! Has Jamie of Auteg MS moved in with you guys?
As for the misleading article:
"New policy aims to protect British drivers from liability claims at the Nurburgring"
Bit of an all encompassing statement and it certainly reads like an advert to me. Highlights none of the pitfalls just the massive benefits of the cover...
BBS-LM said:
So does anyone at PH have any real world reports on Blogs and Car Forum about what happens when you have a Crash at the Ring.
I assure you I most definitely have a real world report, as it stands you are not covered and the 3rd party bills you could incur are life changing. I am in the process of appealing, but I doubt my appeal will get a change of decision, I am not going to go into details as the case is ongoing.
People go and take a chance it is as simple as that.
Antj said:
i got excited and reached fo the debit card to sort it out for the weekend ( off for trip number 10 ) Two of our party have already had expensive blls, one was lucky and had 1k damage and wrote his car off ( but we amanged to get it 2 miles down the road before he phoned his insurance compnay,,,,,ahem ahem damn stray dogs) the other 6k armco bill and a written off RS4.
The written off RS4, was that about April last year? ... i was at the ring last year and seen an RS4 that was trashed just a few miles from the ring and my first thoughts were exactly that - its been crashed on the ring and he's gonna call the insurance company from here 
Chris-R said:
This article addresses a single issue. Namely that if you damage the track you have to pay for it, armco replacement bills can run into many thousands of Euros, and for £99 quid you can be covered against that liability.
Again, this is simply not true.You'll get payment /towards/ your armco bills. you're not covered for them.
There have been crashes with armco + track closure bills well in excess of 10,000 EUR.
Chris-R said:
I'm pretty sure that will be very clear to anyone who spends the £99, particularly as we've directed readers to the website where they (as you presumably did) can read the full details. Funnily enough I nearly posted the full T&Cs, but then I thought we'd run the risk of being accused of running an advert... Doh!
No. Again this isn't true.on the website it says
NurburgMotorsports said:
This is a summary of the policy only; it does not form part of the contract between you and the insurance company. For full details please refer to the policy document, a copy of which will be supplied if you have purchased a policy.
So you can't see the full details until you have bought the policy.Its just another tax, which in essence adds 50% to the cost of lapping, before you have the inspection.
If the inspection is to be worth its salt, it'll take an hour or more, the cost for that would be a further 50 EUR or so... (assuming reasonable labour rates) so the result is you end up doubling the cost of lapping, for little or no benefit.
Until the insurance situation is cleared up properly people have two options if they don't want to end up in financial mire with this:
1) Don't drive the 'ring
2) Rent vehicles from rent-racecar.de or rsrnurburg.com
"Offers" like this will just serve to further muddy the water, make nurburgmotorsport, and allianz some money and continue to see people in serious quagmire, when either they get it wrong, and have a big prang, or their car leaks fluids causing the death or injury to others, and damage to their vehicles.
I repeat my previous request, please can you remove or reword this article/advert to make it clear that is isn't actually insurance at all.
thanks
Andrew
OK, so we're still at square-1:-
- if your policy specifically excludes the Nurburgring or similar wording, then you're on your own, whether you take this little earner out or not...
- if your policy doesn't specifically INCLUDE the Nurburgring, you're taking a gamble over whether your insurers are arsy b'stards or not.
...and currently there's NO ONE in the UK willing to provide specific 3P cover for ALL eventualities.
Is it worth setting-up a thread containing 'ring-friendly insurers, for those of us who do still want to go but don't want to risk their entire net-worth on a bit of bad luck...
- if your policy specifically excludes the Nurburgring or similar wording, then you're on your own, whether you take this little earner out or not...
- if your policy doesn't specifically INCLUDE the Nurburgring, you're taking a gamble over whether your insurers are arsy b'stards or not.
...and currently there's NO ONE in the UK willing to provide specific 3P cover for ALL eventualities.
Is it worth setting-up a thread containing 'ring-friendly insurers, for those of us who do still want to go but don't want to risk their entire net-worth on a bit of bad luck...
It does seem mental that the only way you can drive on the ring with proper insurance for an accident is in a rented car from RNR or similar, even then the excess is high, though at least it's in some way affordable, paying for a biker to be spoonfed for the next 50 years probably isn't.
I agree with many of the above, this only insures against a barrier bill and requires you to have a full inspection of the car first (which to me sounds a touch dodgy) so isn't really ideal, plus you can't see the exclusions till you paid for it all.
CAN SOMEONE JUST INSURE ME TO DRIVE MY CAR ROUND THE RING. I JUST WANT TOBUY CAR INSURANCE AND BE LEGALLY COVERED!
I agree with many of the above, this only insures against a barrier bill and requires you to have a full inspection of the car first (which to me sounds a touch dodgy) so isn't really ideal, plus you can't see the exclusions till you paid for it all.
CAN SOMEONE JUST INSURE ME TO DRIVE MY CAR ROUND THE RING. I JUST WANT TOBUY CAR INSURANCE AND BE LEGALLY COVERED!
Just a thought but if the 'ring is classified as a normal toll road under German law and German insurance covers it,Hertz will rent you a BMW 118d for about £200 for 3 days and I'm pretty sure £100 would cover a cheap return flight. Let someone else pay for the tyres and pads and when you've learnt it(ten years or so)take your own car and by then you won't need extortionate armco insurance.
CampDavid said:
CAN SOMEONE JUST INSURE ME TO DRIVE MY CAR ROUND THE RING. I JUST WANT TOBUY CAR INSURANCE AND BE LEGALLY COVERED!
Good luck....and if you find someone let me know. I'm going in August. I spotted this today and thought "Great!", but it's not. I'm not taking out any specific insurance for my trip. I am going to have my car thoroughly checked over by a local garage who deals with a lot of track day prepping of cars and I have already explained to him exactly what my concerns are - fingers crossed that this will take care of the car "leaking fluids etc".
When I'm there I'm going to drive quickly, but hold plenty in reserve and pay lots of attention to the mirrors. 'Have fun, don't chase times' seems to be the best advice I've had from people far more experienced that I. I cannot afford to replace an Enzo for example, hell I'll be pissed if I write off my car (although not broke), but I have faith that a well maintained car and paying (A LOT OF)attention & courteous driving will see me through.
infradig said:
Just a thought but if the 'ring is classified as a normal toll road under German law and German insurance covers it,Hertz will rent you a BMW 118d for about £200 for 3 days and I'm pretty sure £100 would cover a cheap return flight. Let someone else pay for the tyres and pads and when you've learnt it(ten years or so)take your own car and by then you won't need extortionate armco insurance.
been done.they're wise to it.
They'll charge you wear and tear on the car.
some guys rented a 911 c2 convertible a couple of years ago and got stung 2000 EUR in wear and tear.
havoc said:
OK, so we're still at square-1:-
Yes, afraid so.havoc said:
Is it worth setting-up a thread containing 'ring-friendly insurers
I'm afraid that if we did that, then they quickly would become NON-"Ring-friendly" insurers and that even before that happened, people who believe their insurance to be "Ring-friendly" will not post the details up for fear of this happening. I suspect the problem here is that Germany considers it to be a road. UK insurers don't want to accept that and will find all sorts of reasons why. And so creating a policy is tricky for UK companies. Because you can't duel insure a car.
So IF your road policy does cover the car AND you have a 2nd policy for the ring then theres problems. And the insurers internally are not as sure as they pretend when you put in a claim that your road policy doesn't cover you.
Basically that road falls down a crack and nobody in the insurance world is prepared to look too deeply into it as if it go's against them I don't suspect any other insurance company will ever work with them again.
So IF your road policy does cover the car AND you have a 2nd policy for the ring then theres problems. And the insurers internally are not as sure as they pretend when you put in a claim that your road policy doesn't cover you.
Basically that road falls down a crack and nobody in the insurance world is prepared to look too deeply into it as if it go's against them I don't suspect any other insurance company will ever work with them again.
Collaudatore said:
CampDavid said:
CAN SOMEONE JUST INSURE ME TO DRIVE MY CAR ROUND THE RING. I JUST WANT TOBUY CAR INSURANCE AND BE LEGALLY COVERED!
Good luck....and if you find someone let me know. I'm going in August. I spotted this today and thought "Great!", but it's not. I'm not taking out any specific insurance for my trip. I am going to have my car thoroughly checked over by a local garage who deals with a lot of track day prepping of cars and I have already explained to him exactly what my concerns are - fingers crossed that this will take care of the car "leaking fluids etc".
When I'm there I'm going to drive quickly, but hold plenty in reserve and pay lots of attention to the mirrors. 'Have fun, don't chase times' seems to be the best advice I've had from people far more experienced that I. I cannot afford to replace an Enzo for example, hell I'll be pissed if I write off my car (although not broke), but I have faith that a well maintained car and paying (A LOT OF)attention & courteous driving will see me through.
Not so great in practice.
As said earlier in the thread, I'd an incident last year where a power steering hose split leaking fluid, causing me to spin (no damage to my car), and a bike to go down on the fluid.
The car had just had a 15,000 EUR overhaul, had completed about 20 laps earlier in the day, without showing any problems.
It wasn't an old s
t box either, a 2004 M3 CSL, which I've always maintained with a money no object mentality.There are some thigns you can't predict.
andrew
cpufreak said:
Collaudatore said:
CampDavid said:
CAN SOMEONE JUST INSURE ME TO DRIVE MY CAR ROUND THE RING. I JUST WANT TOBUY CAR INSURANCE AND BE LEGALLY COVERED!
Good luck....and if you find someone let me know. I'm going in August. I spotted this today and thought "Great!", but it's not. I'm not taking out any specific insurance for my trip. I am going to have my car thoroughly checked over by a local garage who deals with a lot of track day prepping of cars and I have already explained to him exactly what my concerns are - fingers crossed that this will take care of the car "leaking fluids etc".
When I'm there I'm going to drive quickly, but hold plenty in reserve and pay lots of attention to the mirrors. 'Have fun, don't chase times' seems to be the best advice I've had from people far more experienced that I. I cannot afford to replace an Enzo for example, hell I'll be pissed if I write off my car (although not broke), but I have faith that a well maintained car and paying (A LOT OF)attention & courteous driving will see me through.
Not so great in practice.
As said earlier in the thread, I'd an incident last year where a power steering hose split leaking fluid, causing me to spin (no damage to my car), and a bike to go down on the fluid.
The car had just had a 15,000 EUR overhaul, had completed about 20 laps earlier in the day, without showing any problems.
It wasn't an old s
t box either, a 2004 M3 CSL, which I've always maintained with a money no object mentality.There are some thigns you can't predict.
andrew
Lucozade said:
senna007 said:
The price could be a little steep as it only covers damage to the track, i would give these a try as they can do 3rd party cover http://www.moris.co.uk/index.htm I dont know if they arte cheaper but its worth a look.
They don't do 3rd party cover nor do they do trackday cover anymore.Edited by Lucozade on Tuesday 21st July 14:42
senna007 said:
Lucozade said:
senna007 said:
The price could be a little steep as it only covers damage to the track, i would give these a try as they can do 3rd party cover http://www.moris.co.uk/index.htm I dont know if they arte cheaper but its worth a look.
They don't do 3rd party cover nor do they do trackday cover anymore.Edited by Lucozade on Tuesday 21st July 14:42
'Doing the 'Ring' legally is messy at best and impossible in reality IMO
I was sizing up a 2009 trip (dropped it due to legal doubts and exchange rate, we did Le Mans instead) and it wasn't really possible to do the entire trip properly insured and covered.
This needs sorting out before someone ends up in jail because too many 'immovable objects' are being pushed by 'irresistible forces'.
I was sizing up a 2009 trip (dropped it due to legal doubts and exchange rate, we did Le Mans instead) and it wasn't really possible to do the entire trip properly insured and covered.
This needs sorting out before someone ends up in jail because too many 'immovable objects' are being pushed by 'irresistible forces'.
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