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bikerstu

Original Poster:

151 posts

32 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
I just got an email from msv and it had a link to these road car days.

Any one been on one?

http://www.clubmsv.co.uk/car-home/road-car-only.as...

What do we think ?

Olivera

2,036 posts

126 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
Good idea. However I did turn up at an MSV 'novice' day a few years ago at Cadwell, only to see people unloading Lotus 2-Elevens and track BMWs from trailers!

spyderman8

1,238 posts

43 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
Wonder if they would disallow a caged GT3?!

shim

1,862 posts

95 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
spyderman8 said:
Wonder if they would disallow a caged GT3?!
Caged gt3 drivers can still be novices.....and knobs....or both.

jonnyleroux

1,443 posts

147 months

[news] 
Friday 12th October 2012 quote quote all
we've seen our fair share of novices (actual, proper first timers) turn up to track days in all sorts of crazy toys, supercharged Atoms, Radical SR3's and endless GT3's.

How is it any different to me buying an expensive snowboard even though i'm a crap boarder? budget exceeds talent for the vast majority of participants in any given sport, from darts to F1.

Jonny
BaT

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RB Will

4,008 posts

127 months

[news] 
Sunday 14th October 2012 quote quote all
That website reads to me as " we asked our customers what they wanted and they said can you sort out a day where I can turn up in my Porsche with a friend and not get embarrassed by someone nia stripped out saxo"

Seems a bit harsh saying nobody with a race licence can come either as I know a few people that have one who are quite slow novice/ amateur drivers.

Also don't see the point banning competition/esque cars as there are plenty of track only cars that are slower than road cars

HokumPokum

1,056 posts

92 months

[news] 
Sunday 14th October 2012 quote quote all
RB Will said:
That website reads to me as " we asked our customers what they wanted and they said can you sort out a day where I can turn up in my Porsche with a friend and not get embarrassed by someone nia stripped out saxo"

Seems a bit harsh saying nobody with a race licence can come either as I know a few people that have one who are quite slow novice/ amateur drivers.

Also don't see the point banning competition/esque cars as there are plenty of track only cars that are slower than road cars
The main point is to avoid guys that use such days as a cheaper way to test and tune their race cars. There is nothing wrong with that as they now have their own race car days where the racers can go head to head against other racers.

having light weight dedicated race cars on the track is annoying for many because of the speed that they can come at you and how you constantly have to be checking your mirrors.

I for one think that it doesn't ban anyone with a race license. Just don't show up with your race car. take your road car and everyone should be welcome.

I, for one, fully applaud road car days. In fact to that it to the extreme, I would like barely road cars like caterhams and atoms have their own days........ If you can't come on your own steam, you definitely should subscribe to race car days and not road car days. That should make it interesting when it rains.........



spyderman8

1,238 posts

43 months

[news] 
Sunday 14th October 2012 quote quote all
HokumPokum said:
The main point is to avoid guys that use such days as a cheaper way to test and tune their race cars. There is nothing wrong with that as they now have their own race car days where the racers can go head to head against other racers.
Actual test days are few and far between and are often only the day before a race. They are sessioned too, meaning you get - at most - four 20 minute slots - not a lot of time to do things with the car unless you have a support team with you.

HokumPokum said:
having light weight dedicated race cars on the track is annoying for many because of the speed that they can come at you and how you constantly have to be checking your mirrors.
All drivers should be checking their mirrors before turning in anyway. Providing they stick to a sensible line and don't do anything stupid or unexpected, there's no need for constant mirror monitoring on the straights.

The majority of race drivers I've experienced on track are much better skilled than yer normal street drivers and frankly are sometimes inspiring to watch. But I agree that their car's appearance and often considerably higher speeds are likely to be off-putting to novices. And that's why we already have novice days - any TDO allowing race cars onto novice days to make up the numbers (I've seen it myself) really needs to rethink that strategy.

RB Will

4,008 posts

127 months

[news] 
Sunday 14th October 2012 quote quote all
HokumPokum said:
having light weight dedicated race cars on the track is annoying for many because of the speed that they can come at you and how you constantly have to be checking your mirrors.

I for one think that it doesn't ban anyone with a race license. Just don't show up with your race car. take your road car and everyone should be welcome.

I, for one, fully applaud road car days. In fact to that it to the extreme, I would like barely road cars like caterhams and atoms have their own days........ If you can't come on your own steam, you definitely should subscribe to race car days and not road car days. That should make it interesting when it rains.........
Top section of the linked website says nobody with a race licence allowed.
As I said its not really a mix of cars that is a problem more the mix of driver talent. I have been on plenty of days where I have been bowling past faster cars or things like caterhams in my fully road legal full interior Impreza and on the other hand I have been on track days at Spa where I have been sharing the track with full on GT cars blasting past and it has not been a problem.

Also a lot of people have dedicated track cars which the only reason they trailer to the track is so they don't have to pay tax and insurance saving hundreds of pounds, seems a bit unfair to restrict the days they can attend just because they don't want to pay or can't afford to tax and insure the car.

Speed differential is just something you need to be aware of on a track day. Even if you have a road legal, novice only track day there is still going to be a 20 sec a lap difference between a GTR and a Mini for example.
I just don't understand what difference it makes if one of the cars on track has a rollcage.

HokumPokum

1,056 posts

92 months

[news] 
Sunday 14th October 2012 quote quote all
ideally all track days should be group according to cars:

caterhams and like, road cars (without cages) on road tyres, race cars,

but the compromise of needing to maximise revenue without turning away guys with faster machinery means that everything gets mixed together.

nevertheless, the disparity in speed is still annoying. why do you think 1 make series are popular? take the machine out of the equation. I am not talking about novice days and the wide range of driver ability but that cars with race cars need to put themselves in that group.

No matter what you might say, folks that invest in a dedicated race car is more probably a better and experienced driver than a person who drives his or her weekend road legal toy on the track. The dedication, and not necessarily expense, sees to that bias. There are always exceptions however but those are outliers.

I think this is a positive direction that will encourage more casual drivers to venture on track. Not necessarily novice drivers, but even drivers with a fair few track days under their belt.

b0rk

571 posts

33 months

[news] 
Sunday 14th October 2012 quote quote all
Personally I don't have an issue with full blown race cars on trackdays with normal road cars the speed differentials between different types of standard road cars and different levels of driver skill is really no different to roadcar vs race car. I've seen plenty of relatively "slow" road cars in the hands of capable pilots monster much more powerful and potentially faster equipment.

Moreover my experience is that race car drivers generally fairly courteous and more focused on setup/development than producing fast laps.

I don't see the point of "road car" only days when you could have anything from a 997 GT3 to a saab 9-3 sharing the same track the speed differentials will still remain huge, I have actually seen the above this year at an normal open pit lane day. I suppose sessioned days with the cars grouped by power and driver ability would solve this but then sessioned days seem to have fallen out of favour with most TDO's. I'd guess the relative lack of track time and thus poor value offered by sessioned days explains why they've become rare.


RB Will

4,008 posts

127 months

[news] 
Monday 15th October 2012 quote quote all
HokumPokum said:
ideally all track days should be group according to cars:

caterhams and like, road cars (without cages) on road tyres, race cars,
etc..
I still cant see the logic behind why you think this. Even grouping Caterhams together you can have massive speed differentials as there could be cars running around with twice the power of others.
And I still don't see why road and race cars should not mix. When I had it I used to be able to get my bog standard full interior road tyred BMW E30 around Castle Combe within 2-3 secs a lap of the BMW Championship guys. I would not have finished last if I had been racing with them so why should we be excluded from sharing the same track? Where is the danger?
Alternatively where I have done club trackdays at Spa we have had everyone in similar spec Imprezas and there has been a 30 sec a lap difference between fastest and slowest.

I think the only reasonable way to group according to speed would be to make everyone do a qualifying session in the morning then group to certain intervals, but 1 TDOs don't allow timing and 2 you may well end up with 20 cars in one session and 1 car in another as it is much faster/slower.
Grouping according to car type or driver skill wont work as there are just too many variables unless you introduce 1 make set modification and specific driver level track days which is essentially what most racing is.

HokumPokum

1,056 posts

92 months

[news] 
Monday 15th October 2012 quote quote all
RB Will said:
I still cant see the logic behind why you think this. Even grouping Caterhams together you can have massive speed differentials as there could be cars running around with twice the power of others.
And I still don't see why road and race cars should not mix. When I had it I used to be able to get my bog standard full interior road tyred BMW E30 around Castle Combe within 2-3 secs a lap of the BMW Championship guys. I would not have finished last if I had been racing with them so why should we be excluded from sharing the same track? Where is the danger?
Alternatively where I have done club trackdays at Spa we have had everyone in similar spec Imprezas and there has been a 30 sec a lap difference between fastest and slowest.

I think the only reasonable way to group according to speed would be to make everyone do a qualifying session in the morning then group to certain intervals, but 1 TDOs don't allow timing and 2 you may well end up with 20 cars in one session and 1 car in another as it is much faster/slower.
Grouping according to car type or driver skill wont work as there are just too many variables unless you introduce 1 make set modification and specific driver level track days which is essentially what most racing is.
think of it this way..it is like a sessioned track day.. except the session is now the entire day.. That's what I am talking about.

bikerstu

Original Poster:

151 posts

32 months

[news] 
Monday 15th October 2012 quote quote all
I see the point, mixed feelings really tbh..... my RS has Toyo R888's and a roll cage - both road legal, i dont have a race licence where would i stand on this day.

RB Will

4,008 posts

127 months

[news] 
Monday 15th October 2012 quote quote all
But unless everyone turns up in the same spec car and can drive as well as each other then there will still be the same differentials that you can get between road and race cars so the whole idea seems pointless.

bikerstu

Original Poster:

151 posts

32 months

[news] 
Monday 15th October 2012 quote quote all
Surley the difference between me and say a saxo would be smaller than say me and one of those GT Ferraris

I have done a fair few trackdays but something like that or a super radical would still worry me a bit.

RB Will

4,008 posts

127 months

[news] 
Monday 15th October 2012 quote quote all
Dunno what you are driving? But as I say you can get all sorts. I have been on a day At Castle Combe in my Impreza (only cica 230bhp) and there was a woman there in a classic Mini who was doing 2min+ laps. The difference between me and her is bigger than difference between me and the lap record holding F3 and GT cars around there.

bikerstu

Original Poster:

151 posts

32 months

[news] 
Wednesday 24th October 2012 quote quote all
So.. the next one is Oulton on the 7th... worth it or not?

Never been up there before but im off that week and love an excuse to do a trackday!

gtdc

4,255 posts

170 months

[news] 
Thursday 25th October 2012 quote quote all
RB Will said:
Top section of the linked website says nobody with a race licence allowed.
Which will be so easy to police.

Madgit

109 posts

40 months

[news] 
Thursday 25th October 2012 quote quote all
gtdc said:
Which will be so easy to police.
How would I prove I am not the same person as my namesake who is quite a successful driver?
Not that I'm attending.

These days are supposed to be for novices, there are plenty of days for more experienced drivers.
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