Nurburgring - new lap record for a road car
Discussion
For those who might be interested: on Monday afternoon the 7:19 lap done by a road-legal Radical in 2003 was bettered by one second.
A privately-run Donkervoort, supposedly weighing 650kg and having a 400bhp turbocharged Audi V6, achieved a 7:18 lap in less-than-ideal conditions. The car bore a current German registration plate, although it was transported to the circuit on a trailer.
I cannot say how much of a "production" car it was, although I have not before seen a similar Donkey. It had a very large elevated wing at the back, a diffuser, a hard roof, sizeable Formula One-style winglets for additional downforce and a full-width front wing that gave about 2 1/4" of ground clearance.
The circuit was dry but air temp was maybe ten degrees and there was a strong wind. Knowledgeable people reckoned that warmer weather would have allowed a lap at least five seconds quicker.
The time was certified by "Sport Auto" magazine.
Now we just have to reopen the discussion about whether cars such as this and the Radical are production cars, or something else.
If they are capable of being driven legally on the road with no emission fiddles and type approved - then that's fair game.
So a Ferrari would be, a kit car wouldn't. Kit cars are built to be finished off by the owners to get around regulations. Plus they can't count as 'production' because they are not 100% finished by the factory.
So a Ferrari would be, a kit car wouldn't. Kit cars are built to be finished off by the owners to get around regulations. Plus they can't count as 'production' because they are not 100% finished by the factory.
flemke, does it have any further meaning that the time was certified by Sport Auto? Will the record replace the recently reported Carrera GT record, or does the car not fulfil the criteria for the official title?
I've searched the web for Sport Auto's criteria for the official title of the fastest production car on the Nordschleife the other week, but there's nothing published; not even in German.
I've searched the web for Sport Auto's criteria for the official title of the fastest production car on the Nordschleife the other week, but there's nothing published; not even in German.
Bodo,
There is not, to my knowledge, an organisation such as FIA or ADAC that keeps track of the record.
"Sport Auto" seems to have become an arbiter because they are in the business of reporting car news and they do a lot of lap-timing there for their monthly "Super Test" of performance road cars. The fact, however, that Phil Bennett's time got a lot more attention in the UK than it did in Germany suggests that there is no universally-acknowledged referee or single set of criteria. I would bet that if the Radical had been road-legal in Germany, not only in the UK, then "Sport Auto" and other German media would have recognised its time.
Yesterday Horst von Saurma, the SA editor and the man who set the time in the CGT, was there to observe. SA provided the timing equipment and after the record-breaker von Saurma congratulated the driver, posed with him for pictures, etc. I expect that there will be a small article on the 7:18 in a forthcoming issue of the mag, the fairly limited number of obssessives such as I and perhaps yourself will take note admiringly, and life will move forward.
Overall the matter of the record seems to be a free-floating affair.
There is not, to my knowledge, an organisation such as FIA or ADAC that keeps track of the record.
"Sport Auto" seems to have become an arbiter because they are in the business of reporting car news and they do a lot of lap-timing there for their monthly "Super Test" of performance road cars. The fact, however, that Phil Bennett's time got a lot more attention in the UK than it did in Germany suggests that there is no universally-acknowledged referee or single set of criteria. I would bet that if the Radical had been road-legal in Germany, not only in the UK, then "Sport Auto" and other German media would have recognised its time.
Yesterday Horst von Saurma, the SA editor and the man who set the time in the CGT, was there to observe. SA provided the timing equipment and after the record-breaker von Saurma congratulated the driver, posed with him for pictures, etc. I expect that there will be a small article on the 7:18 in a forthcoming issue of the mag, the fairly limited number of obssessives such as I and perhaps yourself will take note admiringly, and life will move forward.
Overall the matter of the record seems to be a free-floating affair.
With Audi V6 and 270 horsies - J25 Donkervoort
Edit to say:
Donkervoort makes kars - no kits. It'll cost you but you'll have a serious weapon that's made to last. I see em pass since late 70s. Those Ford 1.6 / 2.0 4pots are still working well. New ones have the TT 1.8 Audi Turbo 4, Cosworth. They try to make the Audi V6 roadworthy for about 3 years now . . . I think its a stunner.
About the N-ring: well done. We all wait for the Radical to smash the laptime - it won't be easy.
>> Edited by dinkel on Tuesday 26th October 12:46
GavinPearson said:
If they are capable of being driven legally on the road with no emission fiddles and type approved - then that's fair game.
So a Ferrari would be, a kit car wouldn't. Kit cars are built to be finished off by the owners to get around regulations. Plus they can't count as 'production' because they are not 100% finished by the factory.
What about factory build turn-key kitcars??
GingerNinja said:
It'll be interesting to see if they take the new Radical SR8 over to the 'ring for a run....2.6litre V8....hmmmmmmmmm.
I guess they will run the Ring pretty soon. The V8 is OK, the Radical car is: where are they waiting for . . .
"The V8 will be available with a capacity of 2.0 litre, 2.6 litre and 3.0 litres."
"Designer, Steve Prentice, has completed the detail design of the cast crankcases and billet crankshaft. This is where the inherent reliability will come from. We expect power to be over 350bhp with maximum torque in the region of 240Nm. The first car to have this motor installed will, of course, be the Radical SR3."
The engine and transmission will be available after the launch at Autosport International 2005."
From www.autosport-international.com/Default_PUBLIC.asp?SetID=1&TextID=408
. 
Not sure how "close to reality" that would be but it looked fast on my telly!!! Still couldn't beat the b'stard in the Cerb Speed 12 though.
I've got Phil Bennett's phone number....
Gonna call him to wrest the title back for the Brits!
Dunkeywart, WTF...Get Radical.
Phil reckons there was loads of time left in the Turbo SR3 and he was on totally road legal tyres. I bet that Dutch (cap?) horror was on super stickies!!!
Phers to the fore. Honour is being eroded. The Nordschleife is ours!!
Gonna call him to wrest the title back for the Brits!
Dunkeywart, WTF...Get Radical.
Phil reckons there was loads of time left in the Turbo SR3 and he was on totally road legal tyres. I bet that Dutch (cap?) horror was on super stickies!!!
Phers to the fore. Honour is being eroded. The Nordschleife is ours!!
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