Switching from Rwd to Fwd track car – Whose done it?
Discussion
I’m selling my Mx5 track car (I’m too tall to be comfortable in it) and the plan was to replace it with a BMW e36 or Porsche 944.
Having spent the day touring the area looking at a selection of over priced, chav’ed (19 inch alloys and M3 mirrors do not inspire confidence in the seller) and knackered cars (£2k for a car with a blown head gasket anyone) I’m thinking cheap Rwd may not be possible unless I’m willing to travel hundreds of miles for a car.
There is however a good selection of Clio 172’s and Ford Pumas near by and my resolve for only going Rwd is beginning to fade. (Original reason was to learn how to drive rwd properly but oh well….).
Don’t want to start a massive argument on whether Rwd or Fwd is better, I just want to hear from people who have made the switch and if they found one or other any more/less rewarding.
Having spent the day touring the area looking at a selection of over priced, chav’ed (19 inch alloys and M3 mirrors do not inspire confidence in the seller) and knackered cars (£2k for a car with a blown head gasket anyone) I’m thinking cheap Rwd may not be possible unless I’m willing to travel hundreds of miles for a car.
There is however a good selection of Clio 172’s and Ford Pumas near by and my resolve for only going Rwd is beginning to fade. (Original reason was to learn how to drive rwd properly but oh well….).
Don’t want to start a massive argument on whether Rwd or Fwd is better, I just want to hear from people who have made the switch and if they found one or other any more/less rewarding.
Used to run a Radical SR3, now a 2005 Seat Leon Supercopa.
The Radical ran round corners like it was on rails and was hard to throw off. One of the hardest part about a lightwright front-engine, fwd is keeping the back end warm. Was doing a day at Snetterton recently, backed off for one lap, started a flying lap and didn't come out of the first corner.
Saying that, I've been lucky enough to have done a lot of Police and advanced road driving over the last three years in mainly fwd cars, in which I learnt a lot, and this has helped to some extent on the track.
So in short, I personally didn't find the transition too difficult. But everyone is different. Remember: in fwd, if the back end starts to go, floor it!
The Radical ran round corners like it was on rails and was hard to throw off. One of the hardest part about a lightwright front-engine, fwd is keeping the back end warm. Was doing a day at Snetterton recently, backed off for one lap, started a flying lap and didn't come out of the first corner.
Saying that, I've been lucky enough to have done a lot of Police and advanced road driving over the last three years in mainly fwd cars, in which I learnt a lot, and this has helped to some extent on the track.
So in short, I personally didn't find the transition too difficult. But everyone is different. Remember: in fwd, if the back end starts to go, floor it!
I moved from a 944 turbo to a Honda Civic (ex race car and under £2k when I bought it, a bit more in it now...)
The costs are much less (more to do with turbo to n/a, not RWD to FWD), but the car is not far off the same pace. Still loads of fun. For the money you will pick up a faster FWD car than RWD. It's a different driving experience, but you can find a few FWD cars that won't understeer everywhere.
Depends on what you want - if you like drifting round the bends then you probably won't be satisfied...
The costs are much less (more to do with turbo to n/a, not RWD to FWD), but the car is not far off the same pace. Still loads of fun. For the money you will pick up a faster FWD car than RWD. It's a different driving experience, but you can find a few FWD cars that won't understeer everywhere.
Depends on what you want - if you like drifting round the bends then you probably won't be satisfied...
I have never had any trouble with going sideways at track days whether it be in FWD or RWD 
it seems to be if they think you're going to lose it in front of someone they get alittle funny.
I have driven a fair amount of machinery on track and It's not so much of a definate change/switch you just adapt your driving style to suite..... don't really think about it, seem to be able to go briskly in all drivetrain layouts I have driven on track...a little hatch you really can chuck about and have huge fun whereas I suppose RWD recquires a slightly more subtle approach if you want to go quickly / sideways.
E36's are fine ! a guy at my last track day had a 170k mile 328i just stripped out and it had done 20k miles on track with the original 2.8 lump ! it was fine still pulled 190bhp at the rear wheels from a completely STD motor.
it seems to be if they think you're going to lose it in front of someone they get alittle funny.I have driven a fair amount of machinery on track and It's not so much of a definate change/switch you just adapt your driving style to suite..... don't really think about it, seem to be able to go briskly in all drivetrain layouts I have driven on track...a little hatch you really can chuck about and have huge fun whereas I suppose RWD recquires a slightly more subtle approach if you want to go quickly / sideways.
E36's are fine ! a guy at my last track day had a 170k mile 328i just stripped out and it had done 20k miles on track with the original 2.8 lump ! it was fine still pulled 190bhp at the rear wheels from a completely STD motor.
Edited by wackojacko on Sunday 1st May 22:37
You must be big to not fit in mx5? im 6ft 4 & 16 stone & its fine, a dished wheel is a must tho.
Nowt wrong with fwd if thats what you want, but because you can't find a rwd is a bad idea to move IMHO, there are tons of decent cars about, but decnet & well priced cars sell quickly & if you want one you have to be prepared to travel.
Nowt wrong with fwd if thats what you want, but because you can't find a rwd is a bad idea to move IMHO, there are tons of decent cars about, but decnet & well priced cars sell quickly & if you want one you have to be prepared to travel.
A2Z said:
Looking at it the other way. Have you tried other options of getting comfortable in your existing car, new seat etc?
If only it was that easy......I'm 'only' 6ft 2 inches but the Mx5 really isn't suited to people with my frame (Tall and skinny). With the stock seats my head is way above the roll bar, I have to tilt my head to get under the roof with a helmet on and my knees hit the steering wheel.
I replaced the stock seats with some lotus elise seats to try and get round the height issues
These seats really really hurt my back after only a handful of miles and I'm only 29. They don't have any significant padding on the backrest of the seat so unless you sit slightly forward they transmit all the force straight into the top of your back.
Plus by sitting yourself so low down you compromise the pedal positions and you can't position the seats as far back as you would like without cutting the floor about.
I’ve messed about for months and missed an entire year of track days trying to sort it so I’m cutting my losses. Yes I could try some buckets but I don’t like the idea without a full role cage.
Anyway, appreciate all the advice guys, I think I am going to have one last push for an e36 Bmw and if not, I’ll thrown my toys out of the pram and buy a Clio 172.
I run both. Prefer the RWD to be honest...
I do like my little 172 cup.. and its great as I can trust anyone with it.
but prefer personally to drive my RWD trackcars as I find they offer more excitement and 'fear' on the ass going! and holding a slide is very very satisfying.
You are welcome for a go in my Clio at a trackday or on a road to see if its for you.
I would go RWD if I was you though.
I do like my little 172 cup.. and its great as I can trust anyone with it.
but prefer personally to drive my RWD trackcars as I find they offer more excitement and 'fear' on the ass going! and holding a slide is very very satisfying.
You are welcome for a go in my Clio at a trackday or on a road to see if its for you.
I would go RWD if I was you though.
used to run a e36 328i, but it was set up badly and we also won a quaife diff - as soon as the diff was fitted it was sideways absolutely everywhere - completely undrivable in the wet, and very nearly had a number of big accidents at cadwell.
Im now thinking of getting a fwd honda civic coupe - on the basis that it will actually be drivable on less than perfect conditions, as it removes the two main reasons we used to spin, which were not heel and toeing on downshifts and thus locking the rear driven wheels, and plain old power oversteer on the exit of tighter corners.
I figure a fwd car will be just as much fun to drive quickly, but a lot safer - and if understeer does prove to be a problem then a little trail braking should cure that no problems.
Im now thinking of getting a fwd honda civic coupe - on the basis that it will actually be drivable on less than perfect conditions, as it removes the two main reasons we used to spin, which were not heel and toeing on downshifts and thus locking the rear driven wheels, and plain old power oversteer on the exit of tighter corners.
I figure a fwd car will be just as much fun to drive quickly, but a lot safer - and if understeer does prove to be a problem then a little trail braking should cure that no problems.
brillomaster said:
I figure a fwd car will be just as much fun to drive quickly, but a lot safer - and if understeer does prove to be a problem then a little trail braking should cure that no problems.
FWD is Just as fun on track IMO although I like the sideways exits to corners you can get in a powerful RWD layout vehicle.... you can still have huge sideways lift off oversteer on purpose slides mid corner, down side is that you're travelling alot faster when 'holding' a slide in a FWD compared sideways exits in RWD.Easier to get a slide under control (you learn) with a FWD is that when you've had enough slide or going a little to far wind off some lock and floor it and it all straightens out nicely...... simples ! It does feel really un-natural to floor it when going sideways but you get used to it.
The 328 sounded like epic fun !
Porkie said:
but prefer personally to drive my RWD trackcars as I find they offer more excitement and 'fear' on the ass going! and holding a slide is very very satisfying.
Its funny, I find understeer scarier than oversteer - agree about finding RWD much more satisfying though, I generally find Fwd ok for short term fun but it doesn't take too long before it starts to frustrate me. To be fair I've never driven a really 'good' Fwd, and my track time has all been in Rwd. Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 24th May 11:08
slepy said:
How about the other way?
I've been always driving fwd or 4wd. How hard would it be to switch to rwd now?
My first ~5 years of driving was mainly in 4wd cars (Subarus) and then I bought an MX5... it definitely taught me more about going sideways, great fun! As long as you have some understanding of vehicle dynamics and can feel what the car is doing then it won't be hard at all.I've been always driving fwd or 4wd. How hard would it be to switch to rwd now?
I'm 6' 2" and had/have the same problems fitting in my MX5 track car. But a smaller wheel solves the legroom issue (and allows you to sit closer and more reclined), rip out the footrest to have more space by the clutch and don't have the roof up (seriously!). We've run trackdays in the wet with the roof down and it's great fun!
come to think of it, two questions which havent been asked yet...
1) when do you normally do trackdays, and
2) hows your driving?
if you only do days in the summer, then stick with rwd - if you're likely to encounter much rain, then consider 4wd or fwd.
then again, if you're a hero driver and are quite happy catching rwd slides, then stick with rwd. whatever you get, as long as its well setup it can be made more neutral - and if you're a good driver you'll be able to drive either layout well.
1) when do you normally do trackdays, and
2) hows your driving?
if you only do days in the summer, then stick with rwd - if you're likely to encounter much rain, then consider 4wd or fwd.
then again, if you're a hero driver and are quite happy catching rwd slides, then stick with rwd. whatever you get, as long as its well setup it can be made more neutral - and if you're a good driver you'll be able to drive either layout well.
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