RMA and Radicals
Discussion
This was in the recent RMA newsletter.....
"Day Member Radical Sports Car Owners Banned from RMA Track Days
After some pretty inconsiderate driving at earlier events this year we reluctantly accepted a few Radical sports cars for our recent Spa event on the very firm understanding that they had to behave themselves and stay well out of the way of our regular customers. Whilst the majority did so there were small number of thoughtless drivers who showed no respect whatsoever for our required standards and consequently we have reluctantly taken the decision to ban most Radicals from future RMA events. The only exception being RMA Gold level members or higher who are true track day enthusiasts rather than racers using our events for cheap testing.
If anyone has booked a Radical on any of our future events we will attempt to contact you."
When our SR3 was running we have enjoyed some great days with RMA. We planned to enjoy some more, but seems that option has now been removed.
We are exemplary in our track manners and won't get in anyones way.
Who is at fault......the nobhead Radical drivers or the TDO for accepting race teams on a track day in the first place?
Might it not also be some of the other attendees in very expensive kit who don't like a plastic kit car (their description of a Radical, not mine) being quicker than their car?
More and more though we are hearing about inappropriate behaviour on track days, and it's going to kill it for us that just like to go and have fun with like minded people. So often though when you dig down into it its the racers at the root of the problem, be it Radicals, Caterhams or others.
It might also be said that the marshalling needs to deal with those that break the rules.
My experience of having a Radical at a track day is that people are just interested in them...in the same way that I am interested in what they are running, and they jump at the chance for some passenger laps.
We weren't at Spa by the way, so it wasn't 3 fat middle aged geezers causing the problems.
"Day Member Radical Sports Car Owners Banned from RMA Track Days
After some pretty inconsiderate driving at earlier events this year we reluctantly accepted a few Radical sports cars for our recent Spa event on the very firm understanding that they had to behave themselves and stay well out of the way of our regular customers. Whilst the majority did so there were small number of thoughtless drivers who showed no respect whatsoever for our required standards and consequently we have reluctantly taken the decision to ban most Radicals from future RMA events. The only exception being RMA Gold level members or higher who are true track day enthusiasts rather than racers using our events for cheap testing.
If anyone has booked a Radical on any of our future events we will attempt to contact you."
When our SR3 was running we have enjoyed some great days with RMA. We planned to enjoy some more, but seems that option has now been removed.
We are exemplary in our track manners and won't get in anyones way.
Who is at fault......the nobhead Radical drivers or the TDO for accepting race teams on a track day in the first place?
Might it not also be some of the other attendees in very expensive kit who don't like a plastic kit car (their description of a Radical, not mine) being quicker than their car?
More and more though we are hearing about inappropriate behaviour on track days, and it's going to kill it for us that just like to go and have fun with like minded people. So often though when you dig down into it its the racers at the root of the problem, be it Radicals, Caterhams or others.
It might also be said that the marshalling needs to deal with those that break the rules.
My experience of having a Radical at a track day is that people are just interested in them...in the same way that I am interested in what they are running, and they jump at the chance for some passenger laps.
We weren't at Spa by the way, so it wasn't 3 fat middle aged geezers causing the problems.
Having almost had a very nasty shunt with a Radical at Silverstone once when he either ignored or didn't see the waved yellow that several other drivers had seen before he came along and witnessing many other incidents, I am not surprised it has come to this.
Although the driving standards of many other track day drivers in non-Radicals also need some attention, it's the speed difference which is the real problem.
Unfortunately, Radical builds very quick cars which can be driven pretty easily fairly near the top end of their capabilities, even by nobheads. It's one reason they've sold so many cars, but it can also be a problem when the owners think they're driving gods.
Maybe Radical should run their own exclusive trackdays so they could all play together?
Although the driving standards of many other track day drivers in non-Radicals also need some attention, it's the speed difference which is the real problem.
Unfortunately, Radical builds very quick cars which can be driven pretty easily fairly near the top end of their capabilities, even by nobheads. It's one reason they've sold so many cars, but it can also be a problem when the owners think they're driving gods.
Maybe Radical should run their own exclusive trackdays so they could all play together?
I'd like to see less race teams testing at track days, but how would the TDO's ban them? It's not like they enter as a team, the TDO would just get a name for the booking.
Seems a shame to ban all Radicals based on one bad track day, I like seeing them, even from the other end of the speed scale.
Seems a shame to ban all Radicals based on one bad track day, I like seeing them, even from the other end of the speed scale.
splitpin said:
Personally, I think everyone under 40, ginger-haired, bald, of same sex sexuality inclination, doesn't vote Conservative or who doesn't have an AMEX Black Card should be banned from all trackdays.
Ah, you've met the average RMA trackday attendee then! FaineantFreddy said:
Having almost had a very nasty shunt with a Radical at Silverstone once when he either ignored or didn't see the waved yellow that several other drivers had seen before he came along and witnessing many other incidents, I am not surprised it has come to this.
Although the driving standards of many other track day drivers in non-Radicals also need some attention, it's the speed difference which is the real problem.
Its actually the drivers that are at fault, not the cars, even with high speed differentials. You sit low in a Radical, but seeing flags is not more difficult than any other car, provided one is concentrating.Although the driving standards of many other track day drivers in non-Radicals also need some attention, it's the speed difference which is the real problem.
FaineantFreddy said:
Unfortunately, Radical builds very quick cars which can be driven pretty easily fairly near the top end of their capabilities, even by nobheads. It's one reason they've sold so many cars, but it can also be a problem when the owners think they're driving gods.
Maybe Radical should run their own exclusive trackdays so they could all play together?
There are Radical only track days. The don't particularly appeal to be frank as it's nice to have some variety.Maybe Radical should run their own exclusive trackdays so they could all play together?
Radical do indeed build quick cars but you are WAY off the mark if you think they can be driven close to the limit by just anyone. We don't get close to what our SR3 can do. We run out of talent way before that, and it will punish you for so doing. We are therefore driving way within the limits of our car. Can the same be said of others we are sharing track space with?
Track days are about having a lot of fun doing something potentially dangerous in a safe and friendly environment. All participants need the right attitude and the rules exist to deal with those who transgress, rather than simply banning a particular type of vehicle.
Read some of the comments from Melindi and Johnny in threads of this sort and they will tell you the same I'm sure.
gtdc said:
In that case I'm going to issue a fatwa against... Fiat Multiplas.
From this moment on no Fiat Multiplas will be allowed on Gold Track days. Their drivers are too ugly and it's not fair on the rest of the people on the trackday.
Melindi
From this moment on no Fiat Multiplas will be allowed on Gold Track days. Their drivers are too ugly and it's not fair on the rest of the people on the trackday.
Melindi
RMA bring it on themselves.. think they're gods of the trackday world when they're really not. Not sure what they expect to be honest having their overtaking rules the same as test days then not wanting people testing. Of course it's going to happen. I've been on a few days where there've been a few very quick cars 'testing' (including one of your days Melindi) and on one occasion I was actually with one of the teams. I personally have never found them an issue at all and the drivers have more than enough skill to not get in trouble. The problem is just as likely to arise with someone driving a GT3 as a radical if they can't drive for s**t.
Oh, and RMA would be better focusing their time on teaching Graham his left and rights for the drivers briefing
I agree that it's going to be the drivers that are at fault. However, with a car as fast as an SR3, there are inherent problems especially with OPL. They are just so fast that even being very considerate, you end up making lots of regular cars let you by an awful lot.
It doesn't strike me as super-sensible for Radicals and road going Clios (for example) to be on track at the same time. So perhaps we should ban both Radicals and Multiplas?! Or do sessions? Or only allow fast machinery on track on road tyres, not slicks?
I did a BaT Donington track day in my SR3 and got no complaints. But flippin eck being on track at the same time as an Austin 7 (750MC type) track car is extreme! I'll be at the BaT Brands GP track day at the 26th trying to keep out of trouble.
Bert
It doesn't strike me as super-sensible for Radicals and road going Clios (for example) to be on track at the same time. So perhaps we should ban both Radicals and Multiplas?! Or do sessions? Or only allow fast machinery on track on road tyres, not slicks?
I did a BaT Donington track day in my SR3 and got no complaints. But flippin eck being on track at the same time as an Austin 7 (750MC type) track car is extreme! I'll be at the BaT Brands GP track day at the 26th trying to keep out of trouble.
Bert
surely this is quite easy to deal with, black flag the driver/car, have a chat about there driving standars etc, send them back out on track, if the driver doesnt stick to the trackday rules,black flag again, then tell them there not welcome back out on circuit, simple!! its always the driver, not make/model of vehicle.
Having done a lot of trackdays (in a Radical) and not once having had my manners/attitude questioned (it isn't difficult to listen to the rules and observe them - if anyone can't then they are as thick as sxxt because they are really very simple), I can safely say, as every regular trackdayer & TDO will know, that driving like a complete knobhead has no relationship whatsoever to the marque, the performance or the value of a car. I've seen displays of knobhead driving right across the board - from slow virtually worthless stuff that is only fit for the skip to £m supercars with way more performance than the pilot can handle.
Irrespective, it's a sad day when someone bans a whole marque of cars (the majority of which have been and would be driven by good paying Customers in the manner a trackday requires) just (and I quote) because "a small number of thoughtless drivers" have apparently transgressed - knowing RMA's mighty odd trackday rules, I wonder how? Going round the track anti-clockwise or perhaps their crime was even worse? Like blowing the socks off some mega-bucks Ferrari/Zonda/Lambo with a funny little plastic car that cost a fraction of what one of RMA's fat cat Customers paid for theirs?
As Melindi I think implies, who is / what make of car is next? I.e. thin end of the wedge. Sad day when cars rather than the twot driving them gets hung out to dry. Cowards way out IMHO - hang your heads in shame RMA; better spend a day at a GoldTrack or a BaT Day and watch and learn from M & J how to sort the t
ts out; that's what proper TDOs do ................ apparently, rumour has it that there's actually more to being a TDO than sitting counting the piles of cash in a big old motorhome.
Irrespective, it's a sad day when someone bans a whole marque of cars (the majority of which have been and would be driven by good paying Customers in the manner a trackday requires) just (and I quote) because "a small number of thoughtless drivers" have apparently transgressed - knowing RMA's mighty odd trackday rules, I wonder how? Going round the track anti-clockwise or perhaps their crime was even worse? Like blowing the socks off some mega-bucks Ferrari/Zonda/Lambo with a funny little plastic car that cost a fraction of what one of RMA's fat cat Customers paid for theirs?
As Melindi I think implies, who is / what make of car is next? I.e. thin end of the wedge. Sad day when cars rather than the twot driving them gets hung out to dry. Cowards way out IMHO - hang your heads in shame RMA; better spend a day at a GoldTrack or a BaT Day and watch and learn from M & J how to sort the t
ts out; that's what proper TDOs do ................ apparently, rumour has it that there's actually more to being a TDO than sitting counting the piles of cash in a big old motorhome.How can you ban a type of car? May as well ban people with Pirellis fitted or those with blonde hair or the ones with green helmets. Ridiculous. Its the driver that causes the issue not the flipping car. So, those who were driving Radicals are allowed on these track days if they turn up in another car but if I go to 1000 track days in my Indy R and behave like a true Gent and then upgrade to a Radical I cant go on track? Duh! Thats just dim.
splitpin said:
Having done a lot of trackdays (in a Radical) and not once having had my manners/attitude questioned (it isn't difficult to listen to the rules and observe them - if anyone can't then they are as thick as sxxt because they are really very simple), I can safely say, as every regular trackdayer & TDO will know, that driving like a complete knobhead has no relationship whatsoever to the marque, the performance or the value of a car. I've seen displays of knobhead driving right across the board - from slow virtually worthless stuff that is only fit for the skip to £m supercars with way more performance than the pilot can handle.
Irrespective, it's a sad day when someone bans a whole marque of cars (the majority of which have been and would be driven by good paying Customers in the manner a trackday requires) just (and I quote) because "a small number of thoughtless drivers" have apparently transgressed - knowing RMA's mighty odd trackday rules, I wonder how? Going round the track anti-clockwise or perhaps their crime was even worse? Like blowing the socks off some mega-bucks Ferrari/Zonda/Lambo with a funny little plastic car that cost a fraction of what one of RMA's fat cat Customers paid for theirs?
As Melindi I think implies, who is / what make of car is next? I.e. thin end of the wedge. Sad day when cars rather than the twot driving them gets hung out to dry. Cowards way out IMHO - hang your heads in shame RMA; better spend a day at a GoldTrack or a BaT Day and watch and learn from M & J how to sort the tts out; that's what proper TDOs do ................ apparently, rumour has it that there's actually more to being a TDO than sitting counting the piles of cash in a big old motorhome.
Lol, I think you've got it spot on there Split.Irrespective, it's a sad day when someone bans a whole marque of cars (the majority of which have been and would be driven by good paying Customers in the manner a trackday requires) just (and I quote) because "a small number of thoughtless drivers" have apparently transgressed - knowing RMA's mighty odd trackday rules, I wonder how? Going round the track anti-clockwise or perhaps their crime was even worse? Like blowing the socks off some mega-bucks Ferrari/Zonda/Lambo with a funny little plastic car that cost a fraction of what one of RMA's fat cat Customers paid for theirs?
As Melindi I think implies, who is / what make of car is next? I.e. thin end of the wedge. Sad day when cars rather than the twot driving them gets hung out to dry. Cowards way out IMHO - hang your heads in shame RMA; better spend a day at a GoldTrack or a BaT Day and watch and learn from M & J how to sort the t
ts out; that's what proper TDOs do ................ apparently, rumour has it that there's actually more to being a TDO than sitting counting the piles of cash in a big old motorhome.It does make you wonder what happened on the day, what with RMAs overtake either side stuff. One of my co drivers was a bit more anglo-saxon in his description of the days and the people who go on them
Now I'm not going to be a hypocrite and pretend that we have not had some great days with RMA in the past, we have. But you can't avoid the feeling that some are rather looking down their noses, probably from a higher seating position in a 360 or GT3, at the little Busa engined thing that keeps going past them.
Unless you have the gearing right Spa isn't great for most Radicals, in my view. You can spend time sitting on the limiter, and in those situations some of the long legged cars will be catching you, only for you to brake 100m later and disapear through the twiddly bits.
I understand that before I got involved in our car my chums did have the odd run in with others on the RMA days. Typically with point and blast pilots who felt they had a greater right to track space.
You are also right Split about the ability of almost anyone to drive like a prat, irrespective of what they are driving.
I was going to say it will be RMA that lose out, but I don't think they will realise that. Much happier for our quids to go elsewhere.....(at least now the fecking thing is fixed......at least we hope it is.) Apparantly polishing it between track days does not count as maintainence!
And let me tell you, when you are sitting with a broken Radical in the pits, all TDO's look the bloody same!
silverthorn2151 said:
Now I'm not going to be a hypocrite and pretend that we have not had some great days with RMA in the past, we have. But you can't avoid the feeling that some are rather looking down their noses, probably from a higher seating position in a 360 or GT3, at the little Busa engined thing that keeps going past them.
By singling out particular models you're lowering yourself to the same sort of level as RMA. Which is a shame because most folk in this thread agree that it is driver issues that they (RMA) need to address, not what car they take.or as it was supposed to read...
"Cheapskate Radical Sports Car Owners Banned from Superior RMA Track Days...
After some pretty humiliating overtaking of our expensive Porsches and Ferraris etc at earlier events this year we reluctantly accepted a few plainly cheap and plebeian Radical sports cars for our recent upper class Spa event on the very firm understanding that they had to stay well out of the way of our regular and expensively equipped customers.
Whilst the majority did as they were told there were small number of thoughtless proletariat who showed no respect whatsoever for our rich and superior customers and consequently we have reluctantly taken the decision to ban most rank and file Radicals from future RMA events. The only exception being elite RMA Gold level members who have paid us loads of cash from their Coutts accounts and who are exceptionally wealthy track day enthusiasts, rather than poor scumbag club racers using our events for cheap testing.
If anyone has booked one of these disgusting machines on any of our future events we suggest you buy something in keeping with our toffee nosed posh twittery and buy a very expensive Lambo/Aston/Porsche/Ferrari/Pagani/Bugatti. We suggest a budget of at least £150,000 plus £100,000 for support vehicles, consumables and 'help'.
We are honestly sick and tired of wiping cheap paint off of the Armco, we demand only exclusive shades of finest pastels! Get with it chaps, OK? "
"Cheapskate Radical Sports Car Owners Banned from Superior RMA Track Days...
After some pretty humiliating overtaking of our expensive Porsches and Ferraris etc at earlier events this year we reluctantly accepted a few plainly cheap and plebeian Radical sports cars for our recent upper class Spa event on the very firm understanding that they had to stay well out of the way of our regular and expensively equipped customers.
Whilst the majority did as they were told there were small number of thoughtless proletariat who showed no respect whatsoever for our rich and superior customers and consequently we have reluctantly taken the decision to ban most rank and file Radicals from future RMA events. The only exception being elite RMA Gold level members who have paid us loads of cash from their Coutts accounts and who are exceptionally wealthy track day enthusiasts, rather than poor scumbag club racers using our events for cheap testing.
If anyone has booked one of these disgusting machines on any of our future events we suggest you buy something in keeping with our toffee nosed posh twittery and buy a very expensive Lambo/Aston/Porsche/Ferrari/Pagani/Bugatti. We suggest a budget of at least £150,000 plus £100,000 for support vehicles, consumables and 'help'.
We are honestly sick and tired of wiping cheap paint off of the Armco, we demand only exclusive shades of finest pastels! Get with it chaps, OK? "
Edited by Oilchange on Friday 6th May 01:33
Oilchange said:
or as it was supposed to read...
"Cheapskate Radical Sports Car Owners Banned from Superior RMA Track Days...
After some pretty humiliating overtaking of our expensive Porsches and Ferraris etc at earlier events this year we reluctantly accepted a few plainly cheap and plebeian Radical sports cars for our recent upper class Spa event on the very firm understanding that they had to stay well out of the way of our regular and expensively equipped customers.
Whilst the majority did as they were told there were small number of thoughtless proletariat who showed no respect whatsoever for our rich and superior customers and consequently we have reluctantly taken the decision to ban most rank and file Radicals from future RMA events. The only exception being elite RMA Gold level members who have paid us loads of cash from their Coutts accounts and who are exceptionally wealthy track day enthusiasts, rather than poor scumbag club racers using our events for cheap testing.
If anyone has booked one of these disgusting machines on any of our future events we suggest you buy something in keeping with our toffee nosed posh twittery and buy a very expensive Lambo/Aston/Porsche/Ferrari/Pagani/Bugatti. We suggest a budget of at least £150,000 plus £100,000 for support vehicles, consumables and 'help'.
We are honestly sick and tired of wiping cheap paint off of the Armco, we demand only exclusive shades of finest pastels! Get with it chaps, OK? "
"Cheapskate Radical Sports Car Owners Banned from Superior RMA Track Days...
After some pretty humiliating overtaking of our expensive Porsches and Ferraris etc at earlier events this year we reluctantly accepted a few plainly cheap and plebeian Radical sports cars for our recent upper class Spa event on the very firm understanding that they had to stay well out of the way of our regular and expensively equipped customers.
Whilst the majority did as they were told there were small number of thoughtless proletariat who showed no respect whatsoever for our rich and superior customers and consequently we have reluctantly taken the decision to ban most rank and file Radicals from future RMA events. The only exception being elite RMA Gold level members who have paid us loads of cash from their Coutts accounts and who are exceptionally wealthy track day enthusiasts, rather than poor scumbag club racers using our events for cheap testing.
If anyone has booked one of these disgusting machines on any of our future events we suggest you buy something in keeping with our toffee nosed posh twittery and buy a very expensive Lambo/Aston/Porsche/Ferrari/Pagani/Bugatti. We suggest a budget of at least £150,000 plus £100,000 for support vehicles, consumables and 'help'.
We are honestly sick and tired of wiping cheap paint off of the Armco, we demand only exclusive shades of finest pastels! Get with it chaps, OK? "
Edited by Oilchange on Friday 6th May 01:33
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