I need some help
Discussion
What a stupid situation.
FWIW my generic take on the difference would be that a Team Leader heads a team for day to day duties, but a Manager actually hires, fires and manages people.
Titles vary from place to place.
Now if HR at your old place have you down as a Team Leader there's really nothing you can do to change that. You can tell your new HR that you didn't lie and that everyone you worked with called you a manager rather than a Team Leader.
You can get your current manager onside, and for whatever good it may do you, as many people as possible from the old place to confirm that you were performing a managers role.
Quite why your former manager would collude with you to get rid of a good employee I do not know, but there you go.
On the plus side, it sounds like some silly HR tizzy that will blow over quite quickly.
FWIW my generic take on the difference would be that a Team Leader heads a team for day to day duties, but a Manager actually hires, fires and manages people.
Titles vary from place to place.
Now if HR at your old place have you down as a Team Leader there's really nothing you can do to change that. You can tell your new HR that you didn't lie and that everyone you worked with called you a manager rather than a Team Leader.
You can get your current manager onside, and for whatever good it may do you, as many people as possible from the old place to confirm that you were performing a managers role.
Quite why your former manager would collude with you to get rid of a good employee I do not know, but there you go.
On the plus side, it sounds like some silly HR tizzy that will blow over quite quickly.
I do have an update, but unfortunately not a resolution yet - I went in for the 2nd informal meeting last week and was 'invited' to a formal probationary review on Friday.
Throughout the whole process, the issue has always been over my role title, yet during the 2nd informal meeting, the issue of my pay at my old company was [u]mentioned[/u] - from memory the conversation was, Them -"you told us your pay at your old company was £X", Me - "Yes".
(When asked what my pay was at my old company, I told them £X. This included shares that the company give me - the shares made up around £10k a year, so my basic is effectively £10k less than the sum I gave them. I have always included non-optional benefits as salary - I don't ask for them, they give them to me, so why should I not?)
I went to the formal probationary review on Friday after over a week of sleeping less than an hour per night and throwing up everything I ate through nerves, only to find the entire conversation was about my pay and not about the subject I had been led to believe it was about - I think we spoke for around a minute on the issue of the job title before parking that subject and moving onto the money.
I now have to wait for a SECOND formal investigation to take place on Tuesday next week. This is to give me chance to get some evidence together to prove that I haven't bulls
tted about my salary too. This should be a pretty simple one to get over though as I have P60's, payslips and P45's and, although these don't show the shares, I also have share certificates to prove that I paid £X amount in each month and my company also paid the same, plus they show that they paid me dividends of £1k a year on top of that too.
It is utterly disgusting that they can get away with putting someone through this for what I can only see as their own sick little game. I took a £6k a year pay cut to come to this job as the company could offer me a hell of a lot more in the long run and they are still saying that I have BS'd my way into the job - WHY THE HELL WOULD I LIE TO GET A PAY CUT?!?!?!
Throughout the whole process, the issue has always been over my role title, yet during the 2nd informal meeting, the issue of my pay at my old company was [u]mentioned[/u] - from memory the conversation was, Them -"you told us your pay at your old company was £X", Me - "Yes".
(When asked what my pay was at my old company, I told them £X. This included shares that the company give me - the shares made up around £10k a year, so my basic is effectively £10k less than the sum I gave them. I have always included non-optional benefits as salary - I don't ask for them, they give them to me, so why should I not?)
I went to the formal probationary review on Friday after over a week of sleeping less than an hour per night and throwing up everything I ate through nerves, only to find the entire conversation was about my pay and not about the subject I had been led to believe it was about - I think we spoke for around a minute on the issue of the job title before parking that subject and moving onto the money.
I now have to wait for a SECOND formal investigation to take place on Tuesday next week. This is to give me chance to get some evidence together to prove that I haven't bulls
tted about my salary too. This should be a pretty simple one to get over though as I have P60's, payslips and P45's and, although these don't show the shares, I also have share certificates to prove that I paid £X amount in each month and my company also paid the same, plus they show that they paid me dividends of £1k a year on top of that too.It is utterly disgusting that they can get away with putting someone through this for what I can only see as their own sick little game. I took a £6k a year pay cut to come to this job as the company could offer me a hell of a lot more in the long run and they are still saying that I have BS'd my way into the job - WHY THE HELL WOULD I LIE TO GET A PAY CUT?!?!?!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I do agree with you and I can see how it may seem misleading to them (I've told them this too), but I have never seen the shares as an 'extra' as they are something just given to me. I suppose a 'perk' would probably have been a better description in hindsight.I have a payslip at home that is from 4 months into the last tax year (old company moved online only after that, so that's the last one I have) and the YTD figure at the top is 1/3rd of what I told them my salary was (give or take £500), so I am providing this as evidence to them on Tuesday which I hope will clear it up.
As for playing the game, I do know what you mean. I know of and have interviewed a lot of people who have embellished their income by a thousand or two, but I've had no need to do that. The pay cut I took was a little under £6k (off base + shares) and if I were to inflate what i was earning, I would have done it by enough that the new company at least came up to what I was earning before, other wise it's a bit of a pointless task!
I suspect you'd be well advised to talk to a solicitor specialising in employment law at this point and ensuring that your current employers have followed due process. One thing that puzzles me is that it would appear your old employer has stated your earnings with them - is this not a breach of trust?
Perhaps some of the other comments earlier in this thread are right - it's nothing to so with pay or job titles and everything to do with wanting to push you out the door by any means possible - whether they don't like your work or you've hit a personality clash or even that someone is worried your work will show in a bad light.
Good legal advice is unlikely to be cheap but probably worth it in the long run because your current employers will have a process to follow and they are currently making a mockery of due process. Legal advice will probably also put your mind at rest as you will know where you stand and what your options really are.
Perhaps some of the other comments earlier in this thread are right - it's nothing to so with pay or job titles and everything to do with wanting to push you out the door by any means possible - whether they don't like your work or you've hit a personality clash or even that someone is worried your work will show in a bad light.
Good legal advice is unlikely to be cheap but probably worth it in the long run because your current employers will have a process to follow and they are currently making a mockery of due process. Legal advice will probably also put your mind at rest as you will know where you stand and what your options really are.
Hi guys, sorry I've not replied to this for a few days!
I've now 'parted ways' with the company over this. I had the final formal probation review on Monday afternoon (was supposed to be Tuesday, but they moved the time) and was told something along the lines of 'we still don't believe you, we're not signing off your probation'.
I've sought legal advice from a few independant experts and from senior union members/leaders that are friends of the family. The outcome of all of the conversations have been that I could quite easily take them to the cleaners over i) the circumstances as they don't equal a 'sackable' offence ii) the disgusting treatment I have received from the company during this situation and iii) the fact that the company have contravened their own policies throughout the process. Unfortunately though, as I haven't been at the company for a year, an unfair dismissal tribunal isn't possible, so I need to follow the appeal process laid out by the company which I am now doing - I should hear back very soon on their thoughts.
As I'm not the kind of person to sit and wallow, I have managed to secure myself a temp role at a nearby company that I start on Friday for at least 3 weeks whilst I look for something more permanent. It's not my ideal job, it's actually doing the role that I've been managing for the past 3 years, but it's a job, which puts me in a much better position than I could be in, so I'm grateful for it!
The oddest thing about this whole situation is that I have absolutely no regrets over the outcome whatsoever. I've found that when I'm talking about it to friends, I'm not saying 'unfortunately I'm not there anymore' or 'it's a shame but xxx' as to me, it's really not a shame or unfortunate. I was part of a company that has absolutely zero trust in almost all of the employees that work for it and where underhand tactics are the encouraged norm rather than being the discouraged exception.
Overall - embarrased that I lost a job over such stty circumstances, but happy that I don't have to explain myself to cowboys on a daily basis anymore!!
Thank you all for your advice throughout this guys. It's been a real support to read your thoughts and opinons on this.
I've now 'parted ways' with the company over this. I had the final formal probation review on Monday afternoon (was supposed to be Tuesday, but they moved the time) and was told something along the lines of 'we still don't believe you, we're not signing off your probation'.
I've sought legal advice from a few independant experts and from senior union members/leaders that are friends of the family. The outcome of all of the conversations have been that I could quite easily take them to the cleaners over i) the circumstances as they don't equal a 'sackable' offence ii) the disgusting treatment I have received from the company during this situation and iii) the fact that the company have contravened their own policies throughout the process. Unfortunately though, as I haven't been at the company for a year, an unfair dismissal tribunal isn't possible, so I need to follow the appeal process laid out by the company which I am now doing - I should hear back very soon on their thoughts.
As I'm not the kind of person to sit and wallow, I have managed to secure myself a temp role at a nearby company that I start on Friday for at least 3 weeks whilst I look for something more permanent. It's not my ideal job, it's actually doing the role that I've been managing for the past 3 years, but it's a job, which puts me in a much better position than I could be in, so I'm grateful for it!
The oddest thing about this whole situation is that I have absolutely no regrets over the outcome whatsoever. I've found that when I'm talking about it to friends, I'm not saying 'unfortunately I'm not there anymore' or 'it's a shame but xxx' as to me, it's really not a shame or unfortunate. I was part of a company that has absolutely zero trust in almost all of the employees that work for it and where underhand tactics are the encouraged norm rather than being the discouraged exception.
Overall - embarrased that I lost a job over such s
tty circumstances, but happy that I don't have to explain myself to cowboys on a daily basis anymore!!Thank you all for your advice throughout this guys. It's been a real support to read your thoughts and opinons on this.
TBH mate it sounds like you're better off without them. Put this sorry episode behind you and move on. I'm not sure what you do, or what line of business you're in but I can safely say that if a new employer had called my ethics into question in such a manner then I'd have voted with my feet long before now. It costs alot of time, effort and money to hire good staff so their loss.
Oh btw a bit cheeky re: the salary and benefits imho but we've all done it haven't we
Oh btw a bit cheeky re: the salary and benefits imho but we've all done it haven't we
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