IT Contracting and "references"...

[JonRB]

Romanymagic said:

a) job number/reference - if (and only if) its a big company, bluechip/FTSE250 etc. i.e. these firms will have formal processes which inevitably will involve having job/reference numbers.

The only client I have ever provided a list of previous clients to before an interview is Barclays Capital. And that was only because I knew from the grapevine that was their policy and was expecting it.

Edit: But as you say, they also put out a spec with a reference number on it.

[theboss]

Romanymagic said:

Client said "not interested, as this is part of the process for application and if the candidate could not be arsed to conform to our (clients) process then that candidate would not fit in our (clients) organisation".

So your clients hiring managers would be quite happy for their details to be handed out routinely, every time a former contractor as much as enquires about an advertised opportunity? (I speak to agents at least several times a week even when I'm not looking)

I can only imagine it would be rather like having your name and number scrawled on the wall of every toilet cubicle in the country i.e. you'd have nothing but wkers calling you up every minute of the day/night.

Edited by theboss on Monday 26th July 16:14

[DJC]

zippy3x said:

DJC said:

spanishchocolate said:

Romanymagic said:

Your post insinuates (note *insinutates* ie to me, IMHO, willing to be corrected yada) that the client is superior to the candidate, and that their opinion and requirements matter more. Why isn't the candidate's request equally as valid as the client's?

They are. For 2 reasons:

1. The client is paying. End of.
2. You're an IT contractor thats all. For most of you with most of your skills you are 10 a penny and most of the decent ones are already employed.


Its a very simple and brutal reality.

Firstly - all contractors are always employed by their own Limited company, or their MSC. No contractors are ever employed by the end client. That's rather the point of contractors.

I've had negotiations (you would call them interviews) with nob-ends with this exact mentality. Unless they are paying exceptional rates I will always walk away. They are always far more trouble than they are worth. The majority of decent contractors who will have options, will also walk away. Leaving the lower end (in both skills and attitude) of the contractor pool to work with these clients.

This of course perpetuates the image of contractors in their minds convincing them they were right all along.

Its a very simple and brutal reality.

I dont really care, I dont interview people. I get CVs handed to me at times and asked which ones I think are OK and I tell them, there my involvement ends. Ive never yet seen a circumstance where either many more blokes are sniffing for the role or I cant ring someone up to get them and apply for the job if someone is needed urgently.

IT contractors, you're 10a-penny.

[JonRB]

DJC said:

IT contractors, you're 10a-penny.

My accountant would be able to confirm that my company income has been more than 0.1p this year.

Edited by JonRB on Monday 26th July 17:25

[zippy3x]

DJC said:

IT contractors, you're 10a-penny.

whatever helps you sleep at night.....

[theboss]

DJC said:

Ive never yet seen a circumstance where either many more blokes are sniffing for the role or I cant ring someone up to get them and apply for the job if someone is needed urgently.

Oh well, that's just a reflection on the type of business or team that you oversee and the skills required.

I can assure you that some contractors and their skills are a little more 'sought after'. Speaking for myself, I turn something down every other day because I can't possibly take any more work on.

[JonRB]

zippy3x said:

DJC said:

IT contractors, you're 10a-penny.

whatever helps you sleep at night.....

I've met the type. Permies who consider all contractors to be chancers and rip-off merchants doing a job they can easily do, but for way more money.

My attitude is to politely say that if the grass is that much greener on the other side of the fence then I'll happily help them over onto this side. Tends to shut them up.

[Romanymagic]

theboss said:

Romanymagic said:

Client said "not interested, as this is part of the process for application and if the candidate could not be arsed to conform to our (clients) process then that candidate would not fit in our (clients) organisation".

So your clients hiring managers would be quite happy for their details to be handed out routinely, every time a former contractor as much as enquires about an advertised opportunity? (I speak to agents at least several times a week even when I'm not looking)

I can only imagine it would be rather like having your name and number scrawled on the wall of every toilet cubicle in the country i.e. you'd have nothing but wkers calling you up every minute of the day/night.

Edited by theboss on Monday 26th July 16:14

Nope and be fair that is not what I said. The reference is taken when the candidate confirms they are happy for their application to go forward. My candidates don't apply and go forward for 50 odd contracts, they might go forward for one or two.

You have a notable opinion to which you are entitled but probably slightly off tack from my day to day dealings. Still hey, I could go to the head of procurement/director of HR at BP Oil or Barclays Wealth and tell them that the process they have painstakingly put in place is "wrong" and people on the "internet" disagree so clearly they should change that process. Nah, sorry, its not gonna happen.

At the end of the day if YOUR ltd company decides to work with xxxxx corporate then you/it should be happy to provide references. When my company tendors and completes ITT's to join a PSL, guess what, we have to supply references from our other clients. So its not too unnatural to expect your company to do the same, or would you perchance be working as a temp/disguised employment?

[smack]

Original Poster said:

All he is trying to do is get two references so he can ring them and try and gain new business, an age old trick in the industry, I am amazed people still try it to be honest, I wouldn't dream of doing it personally.

[oyster]

So does this basically mean you can't apply for a role whilst you are still in another role? As your current boss will find out you're job-hunting?

[JonRB]

oyster said:

current boss

I think you mean 'principal point of contact with the client'

[MH]

Romanymagic said:

At the end of the day if YOUR ltd company decides to work with xxxxx corporate then you/it should be happy to provide references. When my company tendors and completes ITT's to join a PSL, guess what, we have to supply references from our other clients. So its not too unnatural to expect your company to do the same, or would you perchance be working as a temp/disguised employment?

With respect in that kind of process your company already knows who the client is and what you are tendering for. You sounds like a decent enough bloke (?) but I think you'll struggle to get any sympathy from the majority of contractors on here - purely because your an agent. At some point most contractors will have been shafted in one way or another by an agent so in those contractors minds you are all tarred with the same brush. For what it's worth when I was contracting I was never asked for references, my CV just had a couple of very long contracts with very large companies which involved multiple contract extensions - that speaks for itself IMO. Nowadays as a permie who occasionally has to look for contractors I would rather see that kind of thin on a CV than a reference that could be totally irrelevant.

PS. Companies like Barclays 'whatever' will have huge HR departments that stipulate procedures and seem to revel in stifling or delaying the recruitment process because they have to justify their own existence and like to stick their nose in everywhere even when they have no clue what they are looking at, they usually add nothing to the operation of a business but have a totally out of perspective influence on most large organisations. There, got that off my chest

Mike