work/life balance
Discussion
fat80b said:
When you work in a salaried role that includes travel, you are almost certainly going to add some time onto your day. The OP indicates that some level of travel is expected as part of the employment contract.
Yes but there's usually other days when you can go home early, or even work from home and fit in other stuff.fat80b said:
Personally, I regularly end up staying away / traveling overnight including over the weekends and this is part of the job and the salary that comes with it.
I have on occasion flown to Korea on a Saturday Morning to work 2 full days, fly back on the Tuesday (leaving the office in Seoul at the end of the working day) and made it in to work for 9am Wednesday. Its expected as part of the job.
They'll still chop you without a second thought when they've finished with you though. I have on occasion flown to Korea on a Saturday Morning to work 2 full days, fly back on the Tuesday (leaving the office in Seoul at the end of the working day) and made it in to work for 9am Wednesday. Its expected as part of the job.
fat80b said:
Pontoneer said:
I would disagree .
You are entitled to finish at your normal place of work at your normal finishing time .
It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect anyone to spend hours of their own time returning from a remote location without payment for overtime/traveling time . Since overtime is normally optional , OP should be able to insist on being back to base for finishing time - but equally well might offer to work overtime the night before if need be to ensure the job is completed on time .
This is bordering on hilarious. Entitled is a very strong word and you haven't read the OP's contract. You are entitled to finish at your normal place of work at your normal finishing time .
It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect anyone to spend hours of their own time returning from a remote location without payment for overtime/traveling time . Since overtime is normally optional , OP should be able to insist on being back to base for finishing time - but equally well might offer to work overtime the night before if need be to ensure the job is completed on time .
I have never worked at a job where anything in your employment would give you a right to claim that you should be home at any normal time. If anything, I would expect to do a full days work and then travel home.
Perhaps if you get paid by the hour then you might take this view? I guess by your views of overtime pay, this is the case with you?
When you work in a salaried role that includes travel, you are almost certainly going to add some time onto your day. The OP indicates that some level of travel is expected as part of the employment contract.
Personally, I regularly end up staying away / traveling overnight including over the weekends and this is part of the job and the salary that comes with it.
I have on occasion flown to Korea on a Saturday Morning to work 2 full days, fly back on the Tuesday (leaving the office in Seoul at the end of the working day) and made it in to work for 9am Wednesday. Its expected as part of the job.
When I was in a similar situation to the OP with some Manic St Preachers tickets that I couldn't use as I was in Hong Kong, I just took it on the chin as a bit of bad luck. In the end I gave the tickets to a friend and let them have a night out. Not sure I would have even mentioned it to the boss...What goes around comes around......
Bob
"Entitled" , to my mind , is a very fair and moderate word to describe a person's basic human rights ; which include the right not to be abused by being sent the length and breadth of the country ( or further ) on the whim of a boss and expected to make their way there or back in their own time and without recompense !
I am salaried , but my salary only covers my basic 38 hour working week ; anything outwith that is overtime .
I can be ASKED to travel to remote locations but , unless such travel can be done entirely in normal , paid working hours then a) it is at MY option and b) it is paid at the prevailing rate of overtime . My work with the Fire Service can involve working any hours of the day or night and any day of the year , so I make a strong distinction between 'my' time and 'work' time . Because my personal time is precious to me , I would not accept any intrusion into it without both prior agreement nor proper recompense which can include any or all of - standby allowance , disturbance allowance , overtime and time off in lieu of excess hours worked .
To expect people to give up huge chunks of unpaid time at the whim of an employer is unrealistic , unreasonable , unfair and probably unlawful under the European work/time directive since traveling can be considered 'work' and moreover if that traveling involves driving about which there are rules concerning hours spent behind the wheel and the requirements for periods of rest between periods at the wheel . Many companies also have rules about driving after working days and following flights .
Edited by Pontoneer on Tuesday 29th November 20:27
Pontoneer said:
I don't see the hilarity ?
"Entitled" , to my mind , is a very fair and moderate word to describe a person's basic human rights ; which include the right not to be abused by being sent the length and breadth of the country ( or further ) on the whim of a boss and expected to make their way there or back in their own time and without recompense !
I am salaried , but my salary only covers my basic 38 hour working week ; anything outwith that is overtime .
I can be ASKED to travel to remote locations but , unless such travel can be done entirely in normal , paid working hours then a) it is at MY option and b) it is paid at the prevailing rate of overtime . My work with the Fire Service can involve working any hours of the day or night and any day of the year , so I make a strong distinction between 'my' time and 'work' time . Because my personal time is precious to me , I would not accept any intrusion into it without both prior agreement nor proper recompense which can include any or all of - standby allowance , disturbance allowance , overtime and time off in lieu of excess hours worked .
To expect people to give up huge chunks of unpaid time at the whim of an employer is unrealistic , unreasonable , unfair and probably unlawful under the European work/time directive since traveling can be considered 'work' and moreover if that traveling involves driving about which there are rules about hours spent behind the wheel and the requirements for periods of rest between periods at the wheel . Many companies also have rules about driving after working days and following flights .
Almost any order from a boss can be justified by saying that the requirement is down to operational effectiveness."Entitled" , to my mind , is a very fair and moderate word to describe a person's basic human rights ; which include the right not to be abused by being sent the length and breadth of the country ( or further ) on the whim of a boss and expected to make their way there or back in their own time and without recompense !
I am salaried , but my salary only covers my basic 38 hour working week ; anything outwith that is overtime .
I can be ASKED to travel to remote locations but , unless such travel can be done entirely in normal , paid working hours then a) it is at MY option and b) it is paid at the prevailing rate of overtime . My work with the Fire Service can involve working any hours of the day or night and any day of the year , so I make a strong distinction between 'my' time and 'work' time . Because my personal time is precious to me , I would not accept any intrusion into it without both prior agreement nor proper recompense which can include any or all of - standby allowance , disturbance allowance , overtime and time off in lieu of excess hours worked .
To expect people to give up huge chunks of unpaid time at the whim of an employer is unrealistic , unreasonable , unfair and probably unlawful under the European work/time directive since traveling can be considered 'work' and moreover if that traveling involves driving about which there are rules about hours spent behind the wheel and the requirements for periods of rest between periods at the wheel . Many companies also have rules about driving after working days and following flights .
A refusal to comply with the contract you've signed will inevitably result in dismissal.
Regarding my contract, it gives my home office as my normal work location, but also states work on site is expected 'as required' also with regards to pay, we have no overtime entitlement, again my contract states I may be required to work in excess of my normal hours, but apparently my salary takes this into account, so it says! In the past I have frequently travelled on Sundays in my own time when working away, so it's not like I've never given anything to the company.
I wouldn't be half as angry as I am now if he had handled it differently, if he had just replied to my request with something along the lines of "I'll ask the client if they will let us do the work on any of the first four days of that week, but if they don't agree than I'm afraid you'll have to work the Friday. I'm sorry you'll miss your concert but you can claim your ticket back on expenses" It's although he has no understanding of me having a life outside work.
I don't work for a bank
just an engineering firm.
I wouldn't be half as angry as I am now if he had handled it differently, if he had just replied to my request with something along the lines of "I'll ask the client if they will let us do the work on any of the first four days of that week, but if they don't agree than I'm afraid you'll have to work the Friday. I'm sorry you'll miss your concert but you can claim your ticket back on expenses" It's although he has no understanding of me having a life outside work.
I don't work for a bank
just an engineering firm.rainagain said:
Regarding my contract, it gives my home office as my normal work location, but also states work on site is expected 'as required' also with regards to pay, we have no overtime entitlement, again my contract states I may be required to work in excess of my normal hours, but apparently my salary takes this into account, so it says! In the past I have frequently travelled on Sundays in my own time when working away, so it's not like I've never given anything to the company.
I wouldn't be half as angry as I am now if he had handled it differently, if he had just replied to my request with something along the lines of "I'll ask the client if they will let us do the work on any of the first four days of that week, but if they don't agree than I'm afraid you'll have to work the Friday. I'm sorry you'll miss your concert but you can claim your ticket back on expenses" It's although he has no understanding of me having a life outside work.
I don't work for a bank just an engineering firm.
Perhaps there are other factors affecting the way he reacted. I really don't think that you should expect the company to reimburse you for the concert tickets in this situation.I wouldn't be half as angry as I am now if he had handled it differently, if he had just replied to my request with something along the lines of "I'll ask the client if they will let us do the work on any of the first four days of that week, but if they don't agree than I'm afraid you'll have to work the Friday. I'm sorry you'll miss your concert but you can claim your ticket back on expenses" It's although he has no understanding of me having a life outside work.
I don't work for a bank
just an engineering firm.Everyone has decisions go against them now and then - I would personally just take it on the chin and not create a fuss over it.
Entirely up to you I guess, but talk of human rights and the like will probably not do a great deal to foster a good working relationship.
Pontoneer said:
I don't see the hilarity ?
"Entitled" , to my mind , is a very fair and moderate word to describe a person's basic human rights ; which include the right not to be abused by being sent the length and breadth of the country ( or further ) on the whim of a boss and expected to make their way there or back in their own time and without recompense !
I am salaried , but my salary only covers my basic 38 hour working week ; anything outwith that is overtime .
I can be ASKED to travel to remote locations but , unless such travel can be done entirely in normal , paid working hours then a) it is at MY option and b) it is paid at the prevailing rate of overtime . My work with the Fire Service can involve working any hours of the day or night and any day of the year , so I make a strong distinction between 'my' time and 'work' time . Because my personal time is precious to me , I would not accept any intrusion into it without both prior agreement nor proper recompense which can include any or all of - standby allowance , disturbance allowance , overtime and time off in lieu of excess hours worked .
To expect people to give up huge chunks of unpaid time at the whim of an employer is unrealistic , unreasonable , unfair and probably unlawful under the European work/time directive since traveling can be considered 'work' and moreover if that traveling involves driving about which there are rules concerning hours spent behind the wheel and the requirements for periods of rest between periods at the wheel . Many companies also have rules about driving after working days and following flights .
I agree that to expect people to give up huge chunks of unpaid time at the whim of an employer is unrealistic, unreasonable and unfair but it is the reality for many people."Entitled" , to my mind , is a very fair and moderate word to describe a person's basic human rights ; which include the right not to be abused by being sent the length and breadth of the country ( or further ) on the whim of a boss and expected to make their way there or back in their own time and without recompense !
I am salaried , but my salary only covers my basic 38 hour working week ; anything outwith that is overtime .
I can be ASKED to travel to remote locations but , unless such travel can be done entirely in normal , paid working hours then a) it is at MY option and b) it is paid at the prevailing rate of overtime . My work with the Fire Service can involve working any hours of the day or night and any day of the year , so I make a strong distinction between 'my' time and 'work' time . Because my personal time is precious to me , I would not accept any intrusion into it without both prior agreement nor proper recompense which can include any or all of - standby allowance , disturbance allowance , overtime and time off in lieu of excess hours worked .
To expect people to give up huge chunks of unpaid time at the whim of an employer is unrealistic , unreasonable , unfair and probably unlawful under the European work/time directive since traveling can be considered 'work' and moreover if that traveling involves driving about which there are rules concerning hours spent behind the wheel and the requirements for periods of rest between periods at the wheel . Many companies also have rules about driving after working days and following flights .
In my previous job I travelled the length and breadth of the UK. I was based in Glasgow but a typical week could be Monday/Tuesday London, Wednesday Edinburgh, Thursday/Friday Leeds. I spent more time in hotels than my own home, and all travelling was done in my own time using planes, trains and buses.
I was paid a s
t salary with no overtime or any other recompense. Complaining wasn't an option unless you wanted a reputation as a trouble-maker, never wanted a promotion, and enjoyed teaching introductory level Excel in Dounreay for three months. If I'd starting spouting off to my manager about "entitlement" and "basic human rights" I'd have been laughed out of his office.I sucked it up for two years and used the contacts and experience I'd gained to move on to bigger and better things.
Edited by toddler on Tuesday 29th November 22:25
BlueMeganeII said:
Jasandjules said:
I think it's fair to say the Army is slightly different to Civvy street.
I mean, advance across the desert, then go "Oh no, that's my eight hours done, see ya guys" and drive back to base!!
Ahh I see you havn't met our MT drivers yet I mean, advance across the desert, then go "Oh no, that's my eight hours done, see ya guys" and drive back to base!!
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff