Part exchanging my E60 M5
Discussion
Hello there! long time no speak? You well?
Sure you're right but are the gains that worthwhile?
I tend to factor in utility value which is rarely accounted for in these analyses - so your car loses 80% of it's from new/near new status over a few years - but how do you cost the qualitative 'grin factor' (one emotion) over the same time frame?
Like my M5; it's probably worth about 12p but to me, it's unsellable because the trade in for a viable (52 plate, low mile swapper) would never be sufficient - so I keep on truckin!'
My 'investment' is in engineering and (hopefully!) relative reliability.
I paid £35k for it in 2002 and it's worth £10k realistically now - that's £4166/year - or £11/day - to indulge in the most perfect exercise in balance since Olga Corbett went ape in Munchen 34 years ago.
Tricky...
Sure you're right but are the gains that worthwhile?
I tend to factor in utility value which is rarely accounted for in these analyses - so your car loses 80% of it's from new/near new status over a few years - but how do you cost the qualitative 'grin factor' (one emotion) over the same time frame?
Like my M5; it's probably worth about 12p but to me, it's unsellable because the trade in for a viable (52 plate, low mile swapper) would never be sufficient - so I keep on truckin!'
My 'investment' is in engineering and (hopefully!) relative reliability.
I paid £35k for it in 2002 and it's worth £10k realistically now - that's £4166/year - or £11/day - to indulge in the most perfect exercise in balance since Olga Corbett went ape in Munchen 34 years ago.
Tricky...
Hello sir!
You are right, of course. Very rarely do cars actually make good investments - my intention is to buy and hold some relatively affordable car(s) in the near future and use them enough both to enjoy their unique character, and to keep them fit and healthy. Perhaps 20 years in the future, there will be a rare breed of wealthy car collector who grew up in the 70s and 80s, looking to diversify away from his art and vintage wine collection and pining for the days when "personal transportation devices" did not come preinstalled with drive-by-wire GPS robot nannies powered by whisper quiet electric motors.
I think the M6 and the E60 M5 don't really fit the bill as they will not become true classics. I think the 6 and 8 cylinder M5s have a much better chance of that, but the real future value will be in the likes of the E30 M3.
You are right, of course. Very rarely do cars actually make good investments - my intention is to buy and hold some relatively affordable car(s) in the near future and use them enough both to enjoy their unique character, and to keep them fit and healthy. Perhaps 20 years in the future, there will be a rare breed of wealthy car collector who grew up in the 70s and 80s, looking to diversify away from his art and vintage wine collection and pining for the days when "personal transportation devices" did not come preinstalled with drive-by-wire GPS robot nannies powered by whisper quiet electric motors.
I think the M6 and the E60 M5 don't really fit the bill as they will not become true classics. I think the 6 and 8 cylinder M5s have a much better chance of that, but the real future value will be in the likes of the E30 M3.
jollygreen said:
Harrumph. My bawbag of a dentist bought a Dino 246GT in 1998 for £45k.
Now THAT's what Willis was talking 'bout WRT car investments.
10 years on, it's gotta be worth double that.
Not for long: exotic cars tend to follow houses on the way up, and on the way down – but with a one-year time-lag!Now THAT's what Willis was talking 'bout WRT car investments.
10 years on, it's gotta be worth double that.
Zod said:
Indeed. That is precisely what happened in the early 90s.
1988 House prices that were already high went up 30% in a year1989 348 Ferraris still in production were making £30k over list; a speculator put an F40 on the market at £750,000.
1989 House prices crashed
1990 Exotic/collector car prices crashed
Apologies to the OP that I've taken this thread so far off topic, but allow me to respond to recent comments anyway.
I think what I'm saying is that the world is fundamentally changing. Our daily lives are subject to excessive health and safety regulations, our children are driven to and from schools in what would once have been viewed as military transport, our every movement is watched by a tiny high mounted camera on every street corner, and the cars we buy in the showroom today reflect society's changed attitude to risk.
The M6 I drive is by every empirical measure a truly brilliant miracle of engineering. It has a lusty, mighty engine, perfect balance and malleable dynamics, space for two (small) adults in the back, fine build quality and a boot big enough for the airport run. And yet I don't desire one.
This car represents a very sad trend to me. Today's consumer prefers slightly more comfortable (read anaesthetised) responses from his daily hack, even if it's a high performance one. For my liking, there's just a bit too much rubber and silicon circuitry between the (too fat) steering wheel and the contact patch.
The golden age of motoring has probably already passed (at least in Britain), but in 20 years time I think we will well and truly rue the day we sold our E30 M3 / Integrale / ur Quattro / 355 / Elise / air-cooled 911. Nothing will ever be built like those cars again, and if we ignore the white noise of multiple economic cycles, I am convinced good examples of these will be considered (in a sterile and joyless future) the motoring equivalent of the purest class A drugs.
Is that depressing enough for you all?
I think what I'm saying is that the world is fundamentally changing. Our daily lives are subject to excessive health and safety regulations, our children are driven to and from schools in what would once have been viewed as military transport, our every movement is watched by a tiny high mounted camera on every street corner, and the cars we buy in the showroom today reflect society's changed attitude to risk.
The M6 I drive is by every empirical measure a truly brilliant miracle of engineering. It has a lusty, mighty engine, perfect balance and malleable dynamics, space for two (small) adults in the back, fine build quality and a boot big enough for the airport run. And yet I don't desire one.
This car represents a very sad trend to me. Today's consumer prefers slightly more comfortable (read anaesthetised) responses from his daily hack, even if it's a high performance one. For my liking, there's just a bit too much rubber and silicon circuitry between the (too fat) steering wheel and the contact patch.
The golden age of motoring has probably already passed (at least in Britain), but in 20 years time I think we will well and truly rue the day we sold our E30 M3 / Integrale / ur Quattro / 355 / Elise / air-cooled 911. Nothing will ever be built like those cars again, and if we ignore the white noise of multiple economic cycles, I am convinced good examples of these will be considered (in a sterile and joyless future) the motoring equivalent of the purest class A drugs.
Is that depressing enough for you all?
Edited by Harris_I on Friday 20th June 16:09
Sorry Harris, I slightly disagree.
I had my best drive of the year last night in the R400; I mean, I was fizzing at the end, totally wired - quite unmatchable ito on road hedonism.
This morning, I floated down the runway in the M5 at about a very, very naughty plate of suet pudding and despite the insertion of several layers of blubber, I was returned to automotive paradise, just a different department.
In the M6, we're in a GT; a big, bruising but sport mit friskability and screaming kreig always a DSC, fully fattened button dance away - it's not supposed to be the last word in visceral, afaic.
That you rightly asert it's merit amid the otherwise default choices in this category reveals the accurate assessment of it's quality, imo but to lament it's indominatability by the advance of viable technology (when as I've suggested, the real beastie still exists only just beneath the electronic blanket
) is for 90% of it's probable raison d'etre somewhat unnecessary.
I had my best drive of the year last night in the R400; I mean, I was fizzing at the end, totally wired - quite unmatchable ito on road hedonism.
This morning, I floated down the runway in the M5 at about a very, very naughty plate of suet pudding and despite the insertion of several layers of blubber, I was returned to automotive paradise, just a different department.
In the M6, we're in a GT; a big, bruising but sport mit friskability and screaming kreig always a DSC, fully fattened button dance away - it's not supposed to be the last word in visceral, afaic.
That you rightly asert it's merit amid the otherwise default choices in this category reveals the accurate assessment of it's quality, imo but to lament it's indominatability by the advance of viable technology (when as I've suggested, the real beastie still exists only just beneath the electronic blanket
) is for 90% of it's probable raison d'etre somewhat unnecessary.derestrictor said:
Sorry Harris, I slightly disagree.
I had my best drive of the year last night in the R400; I mean, I was fizzing at the end, totally wired - quite unmatchable ito on road hedonism.
This morning, I floated down the runway in the M5 at about a very, very naughty plate of suet pudding and despite the insertion of several layers of blubber, I was returned to automotive paradise, just a different department.
In the M6, we're in a GT; a big, bruising but sport mit friskability and screaming kreig always a DSC, fully fattened button dance away - it's not supposed to be the last word in visceral, afaic.
That you rightly asert it's merit amid the otherwise default choices in this category reveals the accurate assessment of it's quality, imo but to lament it's indominatability by the advance of viable technology (when as I've suggested, the real beastie still exists only just beneath the electronic blanket) is for 90% of it's probable raison d'etre somewhat unnecessary.
Again; in English.I had my best drive of the year last night in the R400; I mean, I was fizzing at the end, totally wired - quite unmatchable ito on road hedonism.
This morning, I floated down the runway in the M5 at about a very, very naughty plate of suet pudding and despite the insertion of several layers of blubber, I was returned to automotive paradise, just a different department.
In the M6, we're in a GT; a big, bruising but sport mit friskability and screaming kreig always a DSC, fully fattened button dance away - it's not supposed to be the last word in visceral, afaic.
That you rightly asert it's merit amid the otherwise default choices in this category reveals the accurate assessment of it's quality, imo but to lament it's indominatability by the advance of viable technology (when as I've suggested, the real beastie still exists only just beneath the electronic blanket
) is for 90% of it's probable raison d'etre somewhat unnecessary.Deutscher said:
derestrictor said:
Sorry Harris, I slightly disagree.
..
..
In the M6, we're in a GT; a big, bruising but sport mit friskability and screaming kreig always a DSC, fully fattened button dance away - it's not supposed to be the last word in visceral, afaic.
..
..
(when as I've suggested, the real beastie still exists only just beneath the electronic blanket)
Again; in English...
..
In the M6, we're in a GT; a big, bruising but sport mit friskability and screaming kreig always a DSC, fully fattened button dance away - it's not supposed to be the last word in visceral, afaic.
..
..
(when as I've suggested, the real beastie still exists only just beneath the electronic blanket
) I always drive the M6 with DSC off, sport 500 and number 5 shift speed (except in stop start traffic to avoid looking like a learner). It has magnificent balance and urge, but what I am missing is that elusive atom of feedback which inspires the confidence to lean hard enough on the car through a corner to get all four wheels drifting at once. A 911 will let me do that (even the modern ones). An E30 M3 will as well. At most, in the M6 I will allow myself some second or occasionally third gear gratuitous oversteer on a clear corner, but that merely requires good balance rather than great feedback.
To my mind, an M6 will do everything brilliantly, except for that one thing, which for me is the reason why it doesn't pass the "keeper for life" test. Having said that, I felt the same way about a Ferrari 550 I used to own, and Evo reckoned it was its Car of the Decade, so I guess not all of us will agree with the journos.
Today, I spied something very rare here in Dubai in the classifieds: a late E30 M3. I am worried that I might cave in and call to see the car, then make a ridiculous impulse decision to buy. My wife is throwing out the papers as I type, so this is probably a good thing.
berry100 said:
Pvapour said:
£26k for an early one now! only 44k miles to 
An E60? Where?
http://www.heathrowdiesels.co.uk/27337/heathrow.ht...
Pvapour said:
berry100 said:
Pvapour said:
£26k for an early one now! only 44k miles to
An E60? Where?
http://www.heathrowdiesels.co.uk/27337/heathrow.ht...
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