Elise to Z4MC?
Discussion
Morning,
Bit of a strange one here...I have owned my Elise for approx. 4 years and do honestly love it but there always comes a time when I fancy a change.
Obviously being a car fan I have read all the usual articles in magazines and some threads on here, and decided upon a very short list from which to try...Cayman S, Z4MC, early 997.
I want to move away from the basic feel of the Elise and perhaps go for something a little more refinded and practical, whilst still retaining the 'sportscar' feel and not going too big, i.e. M3. Having said this, the car certainly won't be used everyday and ideally want it to feel special come the weekend. Ideally, what I want is a german TVR!
Cayman S - have now test driven and to be honest I wasn't taken with it. Lovely looking car, build quality as you'd expect was top notch, but it just felt a little too smooth and polished to be regarded as 'special'. In terms of pace, I'm sure on an autobahn it would feel very good, but it did feel that it needed to be encouraged a fair bit to get it going...presumably down to the torque fig being at the higher end of the rev-range. This sort of characteristic is what I want to get away from, as it is very much like the Elise, but in my opinion didn't execute it as well. For a near £50k price tag I don't think the Cayman is value for money when looking for an exciting drive when coming from a Lotus, and by exciting I don't mean thumping along at xxxmph.
After driving the Cayman I have now ruled out the 997, as (maybe wrong for doing so) I feel that this will be no better - perhaps they're just too good at being the quick daily driver which I'm not looking for.
I really want to drive the Z4MC - and hoping to this week - but means driving to the midlands as nobody can seem to source one for me in this area unless I effectively agree to buy one over the phone, before I can get a test drive in the thing. From what I have read, whilst being completely different to the Elise, the Z should be the more entertaining drive and more of a hooligan - more of the type of driver's car I'm hankering for - as despite people's perception of the Elise, that can also be quite tricky on the limit due to engine position and short wheelbase.
Concerns I have are:
The steering feel - I'm sure it'll be no Elise but are they really that bad in terms of feedback?
Suspension - a lot of articles talk about stiff/crashing ride - surely no worse than an Elise, or enough to put someone off if they're looking for an entertaining drive?
Value - they seem to have plummeted recently which is good for second-hand buyers, and I know the new model is due out next year with a folding metal roof, hence doing away with need for the fixed head coupe - but could this mean the current Z4MC is the last in the line of 'pure' M coupes and should therefore get to a certain price level and remain, or would values be hit further?
Can anyone give any idea on what to look out for other than the crucial 1,200 mile service on a used one?
Can anyone give indications of maintenance costs / consumables per year?
Can anyone tell me where I can get a white one!!
Finally, excuse the long post!
Thanks
Rich
Bit of a strange one here...I have owned my Elise for approx. 4 years and do honestly love it but there always comes a time when I fancy a change.
Obviously being a car fan I have read all the usual articles in magazines and some threads on here, and decided upon a very short list from which to try...Cayman S, Z4MC, early 997.
I want to move away from the basic feel of the Elise and perhaps go for something a little more refinded and practical, whilst still retaining the 'sportscar' feel and not going too big, i.e. M3. Having said this, the car certainly won't be used everyday and ideally want it to feel special come the weekend. Ideally, what I want is a german TVR!
Cayman S - have now test driven and to be honest I wasn't taken with it. Lovely looking car, build quality as you'd expect was top notch, but it just felt a little too smooth and polished to be regarded as 'special'. In terms of pace, I'm sure on an autobahn it would feel very good, but it did feel that it needed to be encouraged a fair bit to get it going...presumably down to the torque fig being at the higher end of the rev-range. This sort of characteristic is what I want to get away from, as it is very much like the Elise, but in my opinion didn't execute it as well. For a near £50k price tag I don't think the Cayman is value for money when looking for an exciting drive when coming from a Lotus, and by exciting I don't mean thumping along at xxxmph.
After driving the Cayman I have now ruled out the 997, as (maybe wrong for doing so) I feel that this will be no better - perhaps they're just too good at being the quick daily driver which I'm not looking for.
I really want to drive the Z4MC - and hoping to this week - but means driving to the midlands as nobody can seem to source one for me in this area unless I effectively agree to buy one over the phone, before I can get a test drive in the thing. From what I have read, whilst being completely different to the Elise, the Z should be the more entertaining drive and more of a hooligan - more of the type of driver's car I'm hankering for - as despite people's perception of the Elise, that can also be quite tricky on the limit due to engine position and short wheelbase.
Concerns I have are:
The steering feel - I'm sure it'll be no Elise but are they really that bad in terms of feedback?
Suspension - a lot of articles talk about stiff/crashing ride - surely no worse than an Elise, or enough to put someone off if they're looking for an entertaining drive?
Value - they seem to have plummeted recently which is good for second-hand buyers, and I know the new model is due out next year with a folding metal roof, hence doing away with need for the fixed head coupe - but could this mean the current Z4MC is the last in the line of 'pure' M coupes and should therefore get to a certain price level and remain, or would values be hit further?
Can anyone give any idea on what to look out for other than the crucial 1,200 mile service on a used one?
Can anyone give indications of maintenance costs / consumables per year?
Can anyone tell me where I can get a white one!!
Finally, excuse the long post!
Thanks
Rich
stuthemong said:
after going from m3 to 2002 K seried 111s I can give you one bit of advice.
Go drive a modern Exige S or elise SC.
They will be a similar cost to the z4mc, and they are utterly, utterly mint.
I took an exige S out recently, and it destroyed the 111s in terms of power (felt similar to a M3, so will be similar to a z4mc in outright pace + both rev to 8.5K happily). The US spec interior was much more refined, and servo assisted brakes and other niceties such as aircon made the exigeS way more comfy and quieter than my 111s.
I'd buy one for sure.
So check out an elise SC/exige S - lotus have moved the game on a lot even though they look the same IMO.
That said, I'd love a z4mc too. Too many options
(and I thought the caymanS was slightly gutless too, and got shot down for that, so nice someone else agrees)
Thanks all for your comments so far...re the newer Exige / Elises - I have driven all but the new Elise SC and to be honest whilst they were fantastic on track, on the road in a real world scenario they are not 'that' much different to my lightly tweaked S2 111s - mainly due to them becoming so lardy. I even drove a NA Honda powered Exige on Sat and that didn't appeal to me for what will be primarily road driving with the occasional few track days per year. I'm getting a little tired of all the Elise derivatives and £35k for an Elise SC is too much in my opinion. Even the eagerly anticipated Eagle doesn't sound like it will fill the void at this rate. Trouble is with Lotus, there always seems to be something to upgrade, and once you start you cannot seem to stop - something I want to do away with for at least a couple of years!Go drive a modern Exige S or elise SC.
They will be a similar cost to the z4mc, and they are utterly, utterly mint.
I took an exige S out recently, and it destroyed the 111s in terms of power (felt similar to a M3, so will be similar to a z4mc in outright pace + both rev to 8.5K happily). The US spec interior was much more refined, and servo assisted brakes and other niceties such as aircon made the exigeS way more comfy and quieter than my 111s.
I'd buy one for sure.
So check out an elise SC/exige S - lotus have moved the game on a lot even though they look the same IMO.
That said, I'd love a z4mc too. Too many options
(and I thought the caymanS was slightly gutless too, and got shot down for that, so nice someone else agrees)Perhaps I just need to hurry up and drive the Z4MC and make a decision from there.
Thanks again, any input re maintenance costs would be appreciated. Is fuel comsumption as bad as many articles' stats suggest?!
bher said:
RichQuy said:
Thanks all for your comments so far...re the newer Exige / Elises - I have driven all but the new Elise SC and to be honest whilst they were fantastic on track, on the road in a real world scenario they are not 'that' much different to my lightly tweaked S2 111s - mainly due to them becoming so lardy. I even drove a NA Honda powered Exige on Sat and that didn't appeal to me for what will be primarily road driving with the occasional few track days per year. I'm getting a little tired of all the Elise derivatives and £35k for an Elise SC is too much in my opinion. Even the eagerly anticipated Eagle doesn't sound like it will fill the void at this rate. Trouble is with Lotus, there always seems to be something to upgrade, and once you start you cannot seem to stop - something I want to do away with for at least a couple of years!
I moved from 111R to M3 E92.What you mention is EXACTLY what I felt while I had the Lotus and wanted to move on.
The M is by far as exciting (with less feedback at the wheel but more rewarding to drive well due to the amount of power) than the Lotus but mainly is really usable everyday.
Regarding maintenance, it will be less that what I spend to upgrade my 111R and less frequent that the 5000 mls oil change (another way to push you the dealer for another change for the endless track mods).
BTW I choose for the "serenity" contract at 50£ per month all included (5 years/50000 mls). Same price per month than VW touran of my wife....
I thought I recognised your username - I have frequently read with interest your posts over on the Elise forum. If I remember correctly you had an unfortunate accident in your 111R on track, Spa maybe?! I did hear that you'd moved on to the new M3, so your comments are certainly taken on board re the M seeing as you were once a fellow owner.
Thanks again. By serenity pack I presume this is the 5 year parts and labour warranty that is offered over here?
Thanks for all your further comments.
I'm hoping to take a Z4MC out this Friday - weather permitting.
This brings me on to my next question...the model I'm hoping to see is a 56 plate with very low miles, nice colour combination and a reasonable spec. I say reasonable as it does not have Sat-Nav. The price is a touch under £29k.
I think it makes more sense with these cars to buy slightly used as so much of a saving over list price can be achieved, even when only six months old. However, whilst Sat-Nav is not too important to me, in your opinion(s) would this affect it more than necessary come re-sale in say 3 years time, and does this price give a fair reflection of spec? It does seem to be priced quite a few ££££ cheaper than others that are currently advertised at dealers nationwide.
Additionally, can someone please tell what the button is infront of the gear stick, to the left? Some models I've seen via the web have this, and some don't.
Benoit - thanks for your input. It's very useful to have an unbiased view and I shall let you know how I get on. By the way, your English is just fine, in fact better than many I have come across on here.
Regards
Rich
I'm hoping to take a Z4MC out this Friday - weather permitting.
This brings me on to my next question...the model I'm hoping to see is a 56 plate with very low miles, nice colour combination and a reasonable spec. I say reasonable as it does not have Sat-Nav. The price is a touch under £29k.
I think it makes more sense with these cars to buy slightly used as so much of a saving over list price can be achieved, even when only six months old. However, whilst Sat-Nav is not too important to me, in your opinion(s) would this affect it more than necessary come re-sale in say 3 years time, and does this price give a fair reflection of spec? It does seem to be priced quite a few ££££ cheaper than others that are currently advertised at dealers nationwide.
Additionally, can someone please tell what the button is infront of the gear stick, to the left? Some models I've seen via the web have this, and some don't.
Benoit - thanks for your input. It's very useful to have an unbiased view and I shall let you know how I get on. By the way, your English is just fine, in fact better than many I have come across on here.
Regards
Rich
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