CSL Vs 911 Turbo...
Discussion
Had a little play with a couple of chaps in a 911 Turbo (996) the other night. They booted it as we came off a roundabout so I thought I'd go for it for a laugh, not expecting to keep up (if I'm honest). However, I was on his bumper for quite a while, hitting 1.5+ units then he eventually slowed a bit and pulled over to let me past so I obliged and he gave chase - same result, neither of us could make any ground on the other. Thumbs up were duly swapped and we went on our seperate ways. Great fun 
Must say I was really surprised as I expected to, how you say, get my ass handed to me on a plate. How do the CSLs figures compare to a 996 Turbo? Mine is "breathed on" but I had three-up, compared to the 911's two so....
Must say I was really surprised as I expected to, how you say, get my ass handed to me on a plate. How do the CSLs figures compare to a 996 Turbo? Mine is "breathed on" but I had three-up, compared to the 911's two so....
rods said:
The Dude said:
Had a little play with a couple of chaps in a 911 Turbo (996) the other night. They booted it as we came off a roundabout so I thought I'd go for it for a laugh, not expecting to keep up (if I'm honest). However, I was on his bumper for quite a while, hitting 1.5+ units then he eventually slowed a bit and pulled over to let me past so I obliged and he gave chase - same result, neither of us could make any ground on the other. Thumbs up were duly swapped and we went on our seperate ways. Great fun
Must say I was really surprised as I expected to, how you say, get my ass handed to me on a plate. How do the CSLs figures compare to a 996 Turbo? Mine is "breathed on" but I had three-up, compared to the 911's two so....
Must say I was really surprised as I expected to, how you say, get my ass handed to me on a plate. How do the CSLs figures compare to a 996 Turbo? Mine is "breathed on" but I had three-up, compared to the 911's two so....
Hi Neal mate,long time no see,you sure it was not a body kitted VW Beetle
Alright Rob! Been meaning to get in touch, I'll give you a bell this week sometime (if you're in the country?) It obviously wasn't your car if the stories I've heard are true...
Beemer-5 said:
I am surprised that the 420 bhp 996 TT didn't have an advantage in general shove, it has 60 bhp and a huge amount of torque in hand over my CSL.
I know i couldn't stay with a optioned 996 (450 bhp) which i came across recently.
Both damn good and fast machinery, whatever.
I know i couldn't stay with a optioned 996 (450 bhp) which i came across recently.
Both damn good and fast machinery, whatever.
If it has 60bhp over the CSL then is the 996 a lot heavier (lowering the BHP/tonne)? Doesn't make sense otherwise, there really was nothing in it, in what was essentially a drag race.
Marquis_Rex said:
Good work!
[Did the 996 Turbo driver know you were racing him?]
[Did the 996 Turbo driver know you were racing him?]
Oh definitely, we swapped over a few times (chaser and chasee) and we both gave each other a
when we parted ways. It seemed that he was faster off the roundabouts (when we had to come to a stop) up to about 40, then I seemed to be faster to about 100, after that there was nothing in it at all. And I wasn't holding him up as we were on a virtually empty dual-carriageway so plenty of opportunity for either of us to pass each other, we just couldn't do it.
And it was definitely a 996 turbo, not a 993.
klm said:
Sorry but I'm not buying this, a turbo is a very quick car and although a Csl is quick the Porka would streak away.
Csl 0-60mph 4.8secs
996tt 0-60mph 3.6secs
Get my drift now
Csl 0-60mph 4.8secs
996tt 0-60mph 3.6secs
Get my drift now
What about 0-100 or 0-150 times?
What are you "not buying"? I'm not making it up, it did really happen just as I described. Perhaps, as you say, he was a crap driver or something. I'm no great shakes myself though and as I said, I had three-up compared to his two. My car is also not standard, as I said, but only about 20-25 bhp above a normal CSL. And, as I said, I did expect to get left for dust but it didn't happen.
I'm not one for cock waving, I honestly didn't expect to keep up (and vice versa) and would've said "yeah, fair enough" if I'd watched him disappear into the horizon. We were both certainly making an effort and I kept up with him well over 1.5 units where we both backed off.
Take it or leave it, I'm not particularly arsed TBH, I never started the thread as a claim that CSLs are faster than 996 turbos.
__LEE__ said:
I don't know about anyone else but I thought this thread was quite interesting.
They are both superb cars and it interesting to see the outcome of a head to head. I'm personally not doubting you but I would expect the 996TT to see of the CSL espcially with an extra passenger. There are many variables to take into account though and as I have experienced sometimes you need a large amount extra to make the difference stick.
Keep driving the CSL the way it is supposed to be driven!
Thanks Lee, that is indeed the spirit in which I posted it - because I was as surprised as anyone to have kept up. I know the spec sheet pecking order between a CSL and a TT, I even said to the girlfriend "Shall I have a try with this 911, I know it'll leave me standing but it'll be fun anyway....." And it was.
No danger of me driving my car any other way
rods said:
Check the vmax forum under FAQ for results Standard 996TT mid 170's,CSL's low 160's.
Over the 1.5 mile runway this equates to a long way behind for the CSL.
Over the 1.5 mile runway this equates to a long way behind for the CSL.
Was that a standard CSL though Rob? Mine is derestricted and has another 20-25bhp (and more torque but I don't know the figures) than a standard one.
m12_nathan said:
Yep, I'd except to be battered by one in a straight line, I've seen with my own eyes that isn't the case on a track, above the speeds you see on track I'd expect the TT to bugger off too due to it's power and shape.
So many variables, maybe he had a tip which are slower than the manuals? Maybe he wasn't changing gear very well? Either way the Dude abides
So many variables, maybe he had a tip which are slower than the manuals? Maybe he wasn't changing gear very well? Either way the Dude abides
The "test track" was several miles of dual carriage-way with 3 or 4 roundabouts interspersed. Some we flew around, some we had to stop at.
The Dude does, indeed, abide.
rods said:
The Dude said:
rods said:
Check the vmax forum under FAQ for results Standard 996TT mid 170's,CSL's low 160's.
Over the 1.5 mile runway this equates to a long way behind for the CSL.
Over the 1.5 mile runway this equates to a long way behind for the CSL.
Was that a standard CSL though Rob? Mine is derestricted and has another 20-25bhp (and more torque but I don't know the figures) than a standard one.
Not sure mate,probably standard.
Howabout we run mine against yours at the next vmax as they are both not standard
Fancy meeting up for a drink over xmas?
Definitley yes on the drinks, perhaps we can do the race in reverse or something, give me a fighting chance?
Beemer-5 said:
Part-exhaust and a remap for £3,000, right? If that price is accurate, it seems expensive for what you are actually getting. Half an exhaust system and 30 minutes on a laptop.
Whether it's worth it or not all depends on the customer.
I can assure you that it was much more than 30 mins though. I was there all day watching them work on my car.
Zod said:
The Dude said:
It's been "stage twoed" at Thorneys...plus better pads and hoses.
I'm probably going to let Thorney do my exhaust. It doesn't have quite the sense of drama 500bhp should bring.Mine certainly has "drama" though it is quite droney (as has been well documented regarding the CSL Miltek) but I just couldn't go back to standard now, sounds awesome when you're pressing on
Beemer-5 said:
Beemer-5 said:
So did it cost three big ones dude?
Was it worth it, in your opinion?
What did you actually get for £3000 if so. Ta.
Was it worth it, in your opinion?
What did you actually get for £3000 if so. Ta.
Dude?
Like I said really, I can't say if it's worth it for you. I'm very happy with the changes but admitedly for £3k it is a bit expensive. All the details for the package are on Thorney's website - I even did a write up in the modification section on BM3W. If you can't find it, drop me a PM on there and I'll paste you the link (no point doing it on here as you have to be a member, which I know you are but plenty of others probably aren't).
Are you going to the Midlands Xmas Dinner? If so, you can check out my car there, no problem, and see if you feel that the difference is enough.
klm said:
The Dude said:
rods said:
Check the vmax forum under FAQ for results Standard 996TT mid 170's,CSL's low 160's.
Over the 1.5 mile runway this equates to a long way behind for the CSL.
Over the 1.5 mile runway this equates to a long way behind for the CSL.
Was that a standard CSL though Rob? Mine is derestricted and has another 20-25bhp (and more torque but I don't know the figures) than a standard one.
How do you know its got this much extra bhp as the Csl does not run on the rolling road, my mate had a car messed about with and said yeah it's alot quicker, untill he put it on the rollers, boy did he get a shock.
It was worse than official figures.
Just take the bhp gains claim with a pinch of salt.
As I said before, my mate Csl has got the full Supersprint system with race kats and when he floored it I could pass him and just streak off into the distance quite easy, but when I had the Csl and had a blat with a TT I was fairly close then, but when we got to a roundabout the guy was in his 60's and looked terrified of the thing, so it just depends on all different factors I suppose.
Yes, it's well known that CSLs don't run on rolling roads. My car is faster than standard (it's plainly obvious when you drive it back to back to the pre-modified car, which I did). I too have new exhaust (Miltek back-box and centre section) and 100-cell CATs. The BHP figure is a realistic estimate based on what I know from Thorney's about the gain they got from their engine when they developed the remap package (it actually is possible to dyno a CSL actually but it involves modifying the wiring loom which obviously they don't do to customer cars but did to their own during development). In terms of figures, I think the pre and post modification figures off the dyno for my car showed a gain of 4 BHP! The other effect of the remap is to bring peak tourque lower down the rev range - makes a real difference to the car.
All that is reasonably irrelevant as you'll note I never claimed that my CSL is as powerful as a TT. Like I keep saying, I was very surprised to keep up with him and believe me he *was* making an effort and was certainly not some old pensioner (well done for keeping up with one though
) - we very quickly got to stupid speeds so he wasn't hanging about. Obviously I can't say if he was making 100% effort but if it helps you sleep better at night, lets agree and say he probably wasn't. Carrera2 said:
Beemer-5 said:
klm said:
Hope that was a joke
No, the boot floor is made from compressed cardboard for weight saving on the CSL.
Big things fit well, especially with the rear seats down but heavy things are a no-go.
Horsecrap I'm afraid.
I carry guitar amps and all sorts in mine, no bother.
Zod said:
alexarm said:
There is a lot on this thread I disagree with. Apart from the main point about a CSL being as quick if not quicker than a 996tt (which is simply not true)
overall, I agree with you, but Horst von Saurma of Sport Auto took the CSL round the Ring faster than the 996TT. Now the CSL was developed with a strong focus on being quick at the Ring, so that means little on other tracks or on the road. One thing about PH though is you always know that whenever there is a debate about an M BMW, it will attract hordes of people to put it down, in case the upstart is seen to challenge the establishment. BY the same token, there will be a solid core of M car fans to defend their homour.
Edited by Zod on Thursday 7th December 15:35
I thought we'd already decided it was because I'm an awesome driver?
klm said:
Beemer-5 said:
klm said:
my mate had a car messed about with and said yeah it's alot quicker, untill he put it on the rollers, boy did he get a shock.
It was worse than official figures.
Just take the bhp gains claim with a pinch of salt.
As I said before, my mate Csl has got the full Supersprint system with race kats
It was worse than official figures.
Just take the bhp gains claim with a pinch of salt.
As I said before, my mate Csl has got the full Supersprint system with race kats
Hmmmmmmmmm............
Yes, my mate had "a car" messed about with
And my other mate had a full SuperSprint on his "Csl"
Can't see where I said the "Csl" has been tuned
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM god you get some Divs on these forums, really sad that they read something that is not there, try getting out more, maybe to buy a new anorak
In Beemer-5's defence, it seemed to me like you said your mate's car that had been messed with was a CSL - "as I said earlier" seemed in reference to the messed about with car.
Don't think there's much need to refer to people as "divs" though mate, chill out a bit.
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