Renovating an old wooden sports boat, am I mad?
Discussion
Fishtigua said:
Depending on Hp and prop size/weight of boat. Lets say a 390kg 5.7ltr V8 300hp through a ZF/Hurth g/box spinning a 3 blade prop, a 1 inch shaft would be okay but 1 1/4 a better bet.
http://www.clementsmarine.co.uk/home/
Clements are the best at calculating these things.
I can supply an engine and gearbox VAT free if you like.
http://www.offshorepowerci.co.uk/contact.html
PM sent. http://www.clementsmarine.co.uk/home/
Clements are the best at calculating these things.
I can supply an engine and gearbox VAT free if you like.
http://www.offshorepowerci.co.uk/contact.html
ETA - what's the disadvantage over over-sizing the shaft apart from price? I'm guessing the extra weight will hardly add any significant extra stress to the engine, so it's better to size up rather than keep small?
Edited by maser_spyder on Saturday 15th March 13:16
Fishtigua said:
maser_spyder said:
Hmm. Where would one purchase such a tool if they were in the market?
It's an old 1" shaft with a machined end to fit the bit, running through the 1" P bracket that has been fitted as close to square as possible. Not rocket science, just stuff we make up to do jobs.A couple of extensions and a forstner drill bit.
A 1" shaft with a thread on the end attached to a hole cutter (using a chisel to break away the core every inch or so).
An auger that's well lined up (risky in my opinion).
The upshot is, I'll cross this bridge when I come to it. I'll probably start getting something together when the bottom starts to go on, which is some time away yet.
I might get the shaft and rudder lined up to purchase though, it would be good to have some hardware kicking about as well as the timber.
Busy week, not much chance for boat building until today.
That's the last if the notches, thank almighty Christ for that. I think there was about 200 of them all told, and at least 1/2 of them are not straightforward and have one or two extra dimensions to fiddle about with as well, and the double thickness notches too that are twice as difficult to cut.
I thought the side would be easier than the bottom as there's much less in the way, but what I didn't think about was the whole thing is done kneeling down or bending over. My knees and back are killing me.
I've got the deck clamp laminations to add (deck clamp is the very bottom strip of wood that runs front to back in this pic - it should have two layers glued together), plus some double laminations at the bow and transom, and then it's nearly ready for fairing.
I need to get hold of a belt sander, but screwfix are totally out of stock of the Bosch ones so I'll have to wait. In the meantime, I'll cut and fit the transom curves and get that ready to plank, given it has to be done before the bottom and sides go on.
Starting to take shape now, it looks like an upside down boat at last.
That's the last if the notches, thank almighty Christ for that. I think there was about 200 of them all told, and at least 1/2 of them are not straightforward and have one or two extra dimensions to fiddle about with as well, and the double thickness notches too that are twice as difficult to cut.
I thought the side would be easier than the bottom as there's much less in the way, but what I didn't think about was the whole thing is done kneeling down or bending over. My knees and back are killing me.
I've got the deck clamp laminations to add (deck clamp is the very bottom strip of wood that runs front to back in this pic - it should have two layers glued together), plus some double laminations at the bow and transom, and then it's nearly ready for fairing.
I need to get hold of a belt sander, but screwfix are totally out of stock of the Bosch ones so I'll have to wait. In the meantime, I'll cut and fit the transom curves and get that ready to plank, given it has to be done before the bottom and sides go on.
Starting to take shape now, it looks like an upside down boat at last.
MOTORVATOR said:
maser_spyder said:
Oh, and I haven't swept the floor because I've been cutting notches all day which leaves loads of little offcuts and dust. The plan was to do it when I'd finished but it was 9pm and my knees were shot to pieces.
I'll have a tidy up before the fairing starts Mr. Rotovator, I promise.
It wasn't me, that was Huntsman.I'll have a tidy up before the fairing starts Mr. Rotovator, I promise.
But he's right you're a
I will sweep up soon though, honest.
Pixel-Snapper said:
I see what you did there. Makes sense. Sort of.
Looking good maser, are you keeping to schedule as you seem to be flying alone?
Yes, I guess I am. I have to say though, it's been a lot quicker than I thought it would be. Looking good maser, are you keeping to schedule as you seem to be flying alone?
I've managed a day a week, maybe two, since the start of January. Plus some thinking time at home, reading the instructions and stuff. And even those days haven't been full days, maybe 5-6 hours.
Before I started, I would have estimated around 3-4 years to get it finished. Apparently, from what I've read, the cold moulding is the big, time consuming bit, and I'm a couple of weeks away from starting that. Once the first layer goes on, that'll be the tell-tale as to how quick the rest will be.
If I had the bottom on and fibreglassed by the winter, that would leave the first half of next year to get the engine in and deck on, which given how quick it's gone so far, I can't think will take more than 6 months.
I managed to find a Bosch belt sander at Axminster, and it was even a fiver cheaper than Screwfix. Picking it up later today so I can hopefully get started on the fairing next week. Busy busy today but might sneak a few hours in late this afternoon.
rolando said:
bluesatin said:
In the previous two posts to yours...maser_spyder said:
I managed to find a Bosch belt sander at Axminster
Good shout on Axminster though, ideal stuff for me and they've got other bits I needed too.
It's not that bad! I must admit though, I bloody felt it yesterday, aching all over. And I've still got loads more to do on the sides. 
Like all projects, you normally come out of the blocks like a panther, and then other things come along and it stalls. I've no doubt this will do the same at some point, just, not yet.
I really do want to get the first layer on the bottom before I go away though, then I can order more ply and the mahogany and it'll be ready for when I get back.
It's Winchester beer festival today, so not much chance of boat building! Tomorrow's on the cards though, might get a full day in.
Like all projects, you normally come out of the blocks like a panther, and then other things come along and it stalls. I've no doubt this will do the same at some point, just, not yet.
I really do want to get the first layer on the bottom before I go away though, then I can order more ply and the mahogany and it'll be ready for when I get back.
It's Winchester beer festival today, so not much chance of boat building! Tomorrow's on the cards though, might get a full day in.
A few hours today and it looks no different. I spent the day fine tuning the battens, getting them all flat and aligned so the fairing is easy. There was also a bit of adjustment on one of the frames needed, so that took a bit of fiddling around. Sort of dead time really, but it had to be done.
I also epoxied in the sheer clamp, I'll fit the second laminate next week, plus the couple of extra laminations at the bow and stern. That'll be pretty much it for longitudinals, so just a final few checks and in to the fairing.
The plan is to fair it first, then fit the transom curves and blocking, fair that too, and start to cold mould. It's looking unlikely I'll get a layer on before I head off, but I'll do my best. It would be ideal to have a good idea of how many sheets of ply it's likely to take, then I could get it ordered to be ready when I get back.
A few pics of my newly swept floor.
Some notches were dead easy.
Some were fiddly and difficult. Too many angles to think about.
And just because I could, I had a go with the belt sander to see how easy it was. The fairing is going to take a long time, that's for sure.
I also epoxied in the sheer clamp, I'll fit the second laminate next week, plus the couple of extra laminations at the bow and stern. That'll be pretty much it for longitudinals, so just a final few checks and in to the fairing.
The plan is to fair it first, then fit the transom curves and blocking, fair that too, and start to cold mould. It's looking unlikely I'll get a layer on before I head off, but I'll do my best. It would be ideal to have a good idea of how many sheets of ply it's likely to take, then I could get it ordered to be ready when I get back.
A few pics of my newly swept floor.
Some notches were dead easy.
Some were fiddly and difficult. Too many angles to think about.
And just because I could, I had a go with the belt sander to see how easy it was. The fairing is going to take a long time, that's for sure.
Give a man a chance! Just got back on Monday and catching up with work...
I managed a quick squint at it earlier today (and couldn't resist epoxying in a couple of the stringers, nice easy job).
Really, I think I should fix the frames in place before I do much more fairing. I've attacked the stem to get an idea of what's to be done, and it's not going to be a quick job at all (I did know this before). With battens fixed, at least it'll be moving towards a final shape with everything solid and in place.
I might try and get some of it done this weekend, would be good to get it moving again....
I managed a quick squint at it earlier today (and couldn't resist epoxying in a couple of the stringers, nice easy job).
Really, I think I should fix the frames in place before I do much more fairing. I've attacked the stem to get an idea of what's to be done, and it's not going to be a quick job at all (I did know this before). With battens fixed, at least it'll be moving towards a final shape with everything solid and in place.
I might try and get some of it done this weekend, would be good to get it moving again....
Update - It stalled.
As I knew it would, I just got out of the habit (or have just been very, very busy) of doing 2 or 3 days / part days a week.
However, I've started the fairing which is about as time consuming as I thought it would be.
I have to be at the workshop today to wait for a pallet collection, so the plan is to do a bit of boating at the same time. I'm going to do some things I really should have done ages ago, epoxying in the stringers, adding the final bits of deck clamp, and really attacking the fairing at the difficult ends.
Fingers crossed by the end of the day, I'll have a frame that's completely ready to fair. I still need to make the transom camber parts, so might get that on the way as well.
I've already started on the really difficult bit to fair, the bow. You can see the amount of angles to consider in the pics, but I am getting in to the swing of how best to approach it with a belt sander.
The centre section is quite simple, just shave off the excess frame which won't take any time at all. The stern is a little complex but not too bad, it's mainly based around getting the deck clamps flat, the stringers are all pretty much flush against the frames already.
So..... Cold moulding will probably start in September. I really do need to get it done before the weather turns though, epoxy just won't work at 4 degrees.
As I knew it would, I just got out of the habit (or have just been very, very busy) of doing 2 or 3 days / part days a week.
However, I've started the fairing which is about as time consuming as I thought it would be.
I have to be at the workshop today to wait for a pallet collection, so the plan is to do a bit of boating at the same time. I'm going to do some things I really should have done ages ago, epoxying in the stringers, adding the final bits of deck clamp, and really attacking the fairing at the difficult ends.
Fingers crossed by the end of the day, I'll have a frame that's completely ready to fair. I still need to make the transom camber parts, so might get that on the way as well.
I've already started on the really difficult bit to fair, the bow. You can see the amount of angles to consider in the pics, but I am getting in to the swing of how best to approach it with a belt sander.
The centre section is quite simple, just shave off the excess frame which won't take any time at all. The stern is a little complex but not too bad, it's mainly based around getting the deck clamps flat, the stringers are all pretty much flush against the frames already.
So..... Cold moulding will probably start in September. I really do need to get it done before the weather turns though, epoxy just won't work at 4 degrees.
Eleven said:
So am I safe to cancel the space in my diary for a launch this summer?
I can pretty safely say that we won't be launching any time in the next 12 months, yes. I've got another month to get as much done as possible, and after that, I need to go somewhere else for a couple of months. I don't know where yet, just somewhere else. Then it's September, winter....
Doing my best.
Transom nearly done.
Just worked out today that I need to fit some more stringers before I can cold mould, so more delays.
Fairing hard work but getting there.
I need a good, solid day or two to really get it moving again, fingers crossed I get some free time in the next couple of weeks.
Transom nearly done.
Just worked out today that I need to fit some more stringers before I can cold mould, so more delays.
Fairing hard work but getting there.
I need a good, solid day or two to really get it moving again, fingers crossed I get some free time in the next couple of weeks.
Some advice required from the boat building elite please!
I'm about to order the mahogany.
The idea is you cold mould three layers on the bottom and two on the sides, then finish with a fourth layer of mahogany in lengthwise strips.
The bottom is painted / anti-fouled, so will never be seen as bare wood, apart from a very small section at the very front.
Most builders actually do the fourth bottom layer in ply for 90% of it, and feather in the 'real' wood for the foremost couple of feet. Like this;
The problem I've got is the ply is 3mm, and the thickest mahogany I can get is 2.6mm. Will I get away with feathering/sanding in 0.4mm between the ply and mahogany, or will it leave a nasty line?
If the latter, I won't risk it and will do the entire hull in 2.6mm mahogany despite the extra expense (it's 3 x more expensive than ply!).
The mahogany isn't actually very expensive overall, but doing the whole bottom will add a fair chunk of cash to the build, and isn't strictly necessary.
Answers on a postcard please!
I'm about to order the mahogany.
The idea is you cold mould three layers on the bottom and two on the sides, then finish with a fourth layer of mahogany in lengthwise strips.
The bottom is painted / anti-fouled, so will never be seen as bare wood, apart from a very small section at the very front.
Most builders actually do the fourth bottom layer in ply for 90% of it, and feather in the 'real' wood for the foremost couple of feet. Like this;
The problem I've got is the ply is 3mm, and the thickest mahogany I can get is 2.6mm. Will I get away with feathering/sanding in 0.4mm between the ply and mahogany, or will it leave a nasty line?
If the latter, I won't risk it and will do the entire hull in 2.6mm mahogany despite the extra expense (it's 3 x more expensive than ply!).
The mahogany isn't actually very expensive overall, but doing the whole bottom will add a fair chunk of cash to the build, and isn't strictly necessary.
Answers on a postcard please!
Huntsman said:
What is the difference in cost?
I would say that you could quite easily fair with a long board over a few inches the 0.4mm difference.
Ply around £7 per square metre.I would say that you could quite easily fair with a long board over a few inches the 0.4mm difference.
Mahogany around £20 per square metre.
That bottom section is around 7m long and 1.3m wide, so say 9 square metres allowing for wastage.
£63 to do in ply / £180 to do in mahogany.
Huntsman said:
maser_spyder said:
Ply around £7 per square metre.
Mahogany around £20 per square metre.
That bottom section is around 7m long and 1.3m wide, so say 9 square metres allowing for wastage.
£63 to do in ply / £180 to do in mahogany.
Tight arse! Do it in mahogany.Mahogany around £20 per square metre.
That bottom section is around 7m long and 1.3m wide, so say 9 square metres allowing for wastage.
£63 to do in ply / £180 to do in mahogany.
In my head, mahogany was going to be REALLY expensive, hence using it very sparingly. But it turns out, mahogany isn't all that expensive but ply really is.
It'll be a damned shame to lay it all up in mahogany and then paint over it though. Or.... If she's not ever staying in the water, do I really need to anti-foul?
What's the sort of time limit for leaving a boat in the water without antifouling?
Right, I'm off to measure up for mahogany then.
I've been investigating nylon brad nails for doing the cold moulding, excellent write-ups everywhere. If you use staples to hold the planking in place, it apparently takes hours to take them all out again (although the ideas of using car seat belts or nylon strapping to pull them out easily was excellent).
If I use nylon brad nails, they just stay in place and you can file them flat if necessary. No good for the top layer as they'll be slightly visible, but perfect for the ply layers.
The nail gun itself is the thick end of £200, so that puts the extra mahogany cost in to perspective.
It's a shame I won't be around to get cracking on this over the summer, but I'd like to get it to the point of cold moulding so I can try to get the hull finished before the winter.
I've been investigating nylon brad nails for doing the cold moulding, excellent write-ups everywhere. If you use staples to hold the planking in place, it apparently takes hours to take them all out again (although the ideas of using car seat belts or nylon strapping to pull them out easily was excellent).
If I use nylon brad nails, they just stay in place and you can file them flat if necessary. No good for the top layer as they'll be slightly visible, but perfect for the ply layers.
The nail gun itself is the thick end of £200, so that puts the extra mahogany cost in to perspective.
It's a shame I won't be around to get cracking on this over the summer, but I'd like to get it to the point of cold moulding so I can try to get the hull finished before the winter.
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