A320 down in Pakistan

[Krikkit]

Max_Torque said:

Realistically a collapse, rather than a deliberate and prepared belly landing, is likely to be asymetric, so the trajectory of the A/C after the collapse is, frankly, anyone guess. At high speed, whilst the aerodynamic control surfaces have some authority i guess there is a bit of flying to do, but once the speed drops below about 100mph, it's hang on an scream time.........

Depends on the speed, but if there's a little aerodynamic lift it'll help, plus differential braking on the other gear can keep it vaguely on the tarmac for the most part. Most collapsed/single sided landings end up reasonably on the runway.

[5150]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK4Ixy2tjd8

[MB140]

aeropilot said:

Krikkit said:

red_slr said:

Juan gives his view on the data.

https://youtu.be/UEYiiZdvNh4?t=217

For those without youtube access he is basically saying they were twice as high as they should have been in fact maybe a touch more. They were at 10,000ft when they should have been around 4,000 ft.

Madness.

This one he uses in the video is a perfect illustration of what was so wrong:



What on earth were they thinking?

I think only the CVR will give any clues to that............and

Which is why I'm very suspicious of the news that the casing of the CVR has been found but not the contents....

Having spent some time in my career down at Boscombe Down and been in the facility where the FDR/CVR data is recovered there is no chance in hell of the internals just coming out ROFL.

They have a lovely collection there to see starting with some of the very first. Metal sheet with needle inscribe setups to the most modern to look out.

The amount of physical abuse they can take (they have quite a few that have been in crashes) is stunning. One was from a plane that went nose in at 500+ mph. It was still intact. Smashed and dented to crap yes but still intact.

[aeropilot]

I suspect its a translation to English issue......(hopefully)

Aviation Herald said:

On May 26th 2020 it became known, the data module of the cockpit voice recorder has not been found so far, only the housing had been recovered. The FDR including data module is about to be taken to Paris for read out by BEA whose investigators arrived in Karachi on May 26th 2020. Authorities are hopeful to find the CVR's data module during removal of the wreckage from the crash site.

On May 26th 2020 a spokesman of the airline reported only the cover of the CVR has been recovered so far. Residents of Model Colony are being urged to hand over any aircraft components found in their houses.

On May 26th 2020 evening the BEA reported their investigators are still on site, the FDR has not yet left Pakistan, the CVR has not been recovered.

[Munter]

aeropilot said:

I suspect its a translation to English issue......(hopefully)

Aviation Herald said:

On May 26th 2020 it became known, the data module of the cockpit voice recorder has not been found so far, only the housing had been recovered. The FDR including data module is about to be taken to Paris for read out by BEA whose investigators arrived in Karachi on May 26th 2020. Authorities are hopeful to find the CVR's data module during removal of the wreckage from the crash site.

On May 26th 2020 a spokesman of the airline reported only the cover of the CVR has been recovered so far. Residents of Model Colony are being urged to hand over any aircraft components found in their houses.

On May 26th 2020 evening the BEA reported their investigators are still on site, the FDR has not yet left Pakistan, the CVR has not been recovered.

I was wondering that. I pondered if they had found some "cosmetic" or ancillary parts of it. But the key part with the data had chosen to relocate elsewhere during the crash.

I would also wonder if someone both relatively poor and mildly unscrupulous were to happen upon it, and know it's value to the investigation, might just decide keep hold of it until some minor reward is offered for anybody who finds it.

[red_slr]

Munter said:

I would also wonder if someone both relatively poor and mildly unscrupulous were to happen upon it, and know it's value to the investigation, might just decide keep hold of it until some minor reward is offered for anybody who finds it.

These 2 will probably turn up shortly..

[stevemcs]

steveo3002 said:

what are pilots trained to do if landing and the gear collapses or otherwise , id have thought staying on the ground would be a good idea rather than taking off for another go?

I'm sure they can land without any wheels

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC8ySY_GlUk

Edited by stevemcs on Wednesday 27th May 18:38

[aeropilot]

Munter said:

I would also wonder if someone both relatively poor and mildly unscrupulous were to happen upon it, and know it's value to the investigation, might just decide keep hold of it until some minor reward is offered for anybody who finds it.

Given where in the world this is, and the circumstances already known, I'd be more inclined to think money has been offered to the first person to find it, so as to make sure it stays, err, missing.

[anonymous-user]

aeropilot said:

Krikkit said:

red_slr said:

Juan gives his view on the data.

https://youtu.be/UEYiiZdvNh4?t=217

For those without youtube access he is basically saying they were twice as high as they should have been in fact maybe a touch more. They were at 10,000ft when they should have been around 4,000 ft.

Madness.

This one he uses in the video is a perfect illustration of what was so wrong:



What on earth were they thinking?

I think only the CVR will give any clues to that............and

Which is why I'm very suspicious of the news that the casing of the CVR has been found but not the contents....

I suspect by "casing" they may mean "covers" and mean the Ebay doors/strucuture where the CVR lives, it would not be unusual for the Ebay to disintergrate and the CVR itself to fly out somewhere. The CVR could also shed it's outer covers if they are of a basic sheetmetal type design i guess, whereas the CVR itself, ie the memory chips, are obviously housed in a rather more substantial metal housing for impact and fire resistance!

[Caruso]

I was just watching this video about belly landing in a 767 and one of the passengers describes it as "one of the smoother landings I've ever had"

https://youtu.be/Z9tsGzRrukQ?t=120

[Starfighter]

A320 gear up landing here.
https://youtu.be/YLwkPJhIPNM

[aeropilot]

CVR confirmed as now being found.

[motomk]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-Pakistan-airpla...

[Trevatanus]

Caruso said:

I was just watching this video about belly landing in a 767 and one of the passengers describes it as "one of the smoother landings I've ever had"

https://youtu.be/Z9tsGzRrukQ?t=120

I am guessing that the pilots are maybe focusing extremely hard on getting this right. Not suggesting that they would not normally do so, but this was not a run of the mill landing.

[nikaiyo2]

aeropilot said:

MB140 said:

aeropilot said:

Bandit110 said:

DuraAce said:

Down to the crew to not get into such a situation in the first place. Shocking CRM. The approach should've been binned long before they got to that point in the chain of events.
Nobody else to blame but themselves (going on current/available info)

Yep, I'm with you, based on the info so far

Data is looking like they 'touched down' onto the runway at something like 200-210 knts......

Jesus Christ. We were 139 over the threshold today with 9 knot correction 707 (E3-D).

I doubt even the old Tornado GR1 flapless was 200knts landing speed.

Even the F-104 Starfighter only landed at around 165knts (as long as its bleed air system was working) and 210knts was the landing speed of the record breaking rocket powered NASA X-15, regarded as having the highest landing speed of a powered flight aircraft......so the muppets were clearly trying to get themselves in the Guinness Book of Records........

I think the F105 Thundercheif landed at 190knts.

[48k]

nikaiyo2 said:

aeropilot said:

MB140 said:

aeropilot said:

Bandit110 said:

DuraAce said:

Down to the crew to not get into such a situation in the first place. Shocking CRM. The approach should've been binned long before they got to that point in the chain of events.
Nobody else to blame but themselves (going on current/available info)

Yep, I'm with you, based on the info so far

Data is looking like they 'touched down' onto the runway at something like 200-210 knts......

Jesus Christ. We were 139 over the threshold today with 9 knot correction 707 (E3-D).

I doubt even the old Tornado GR1 flapless was 200knts landing speed.

Even the F-104 Starfighter only landed at around 165knts (as long as its bleed air system was working) and 210knts was the landing speed of the record breaking rocket powered NASA X-15, regarded as having the highest landing speed of a powered flight aircraft......so the muppets were clearly trying to get themselves in the Guinness Book of Records........

I think the F105 Thundercheif landed at 190knts.

Amazing to think that the Space Shuttle Orbiter had no power and landed at 220mph off something like a 20 degree glide slope.

[red_slr]

Indeed although they don't get a second chance!

They also have brake chutes to slow down.

IIRC they are supersonic until quite late on approach. I have seen the shuttle launch and it was amazing but a landing would have been just as cool to see IMHO but alas I never got to see one.

[Starfighter]

A short lecture on landing the shuttle with some data and in-flight footage.
https://youtu.be/Jb4prVsXkZU

[TheDukeofBork]

Bruce Dickinson had a go in the Shuttle simulator in his series "Flying Heavy Metal". He got it down in one piece.

[Eric Mc]

red_slr said:

Indeed although they don't get a second chance!

They also have brake chutes to slow down.

IIRC they are supersonic until quite late on approach. I have seen the shuttle launch and it was amazing but a landing would have been just as cool to see IMHO but alas I never got to see one.

It wasn't originally intended to have brake chutes. These were added after improvements were instigated following the enquiry into the Challenger accident. The Shuttle had a split rudder which, as well as operating in the normal way a rudder does, could split and act as an air brake. This could be operated all the way down to landing and was actually used as the "throttle" for allowing the Shuttle to slow down or speed up on approach. Finally, once on the ground the air brake would be used to slow it down in conjunction with the wheel brakes.

This was found to be very marginal, especially in any sort of crosswinds and consequently the Shuttles suffered a number of brake and tyre failures. Bringing in the braking parachute solved most of these issues at the expense of additional weight and reduced payload (which is why the idea had been discarded during the original design phase).