Selling a boat, advice, state of the market & sea trials
Discussion
I posted up a thread a couple of days ago on a boating forum in response to people who had been moaning about how hard they were finding it to sell their boats or how any offers they had received had been low and insulting. In every instance when you clicked through to their adverts you were greeted by pictures of mould, debris, washing up cloths, rust and so on. In one case a broker had even gone to the trouble of photographing a stain in the carpet presumable hoping that would in some way aid the sale.
I posted up a link to a little micro site I'd done to host photos and details of our boat which we are selling in order to upgrade to a larger model within the Princess flybridge range. I wanted to show how I thought it should be done and ask for advice as to how things might be improved.
The site is here: Princess 42 for sale
I was worried at the time that my post would come across as being arrogant and I nearly didn't post it. I'm glad I did because it's now into it's 7th page and I've had some great advice as to little changes. Things like putting a description under each photo for instance.
What do the collective Pistonheads massiv think? Any other ideas which are relatively easy to implement. I'm going to re photograph the master cabin. At the time Mrs Henry-F had hidden the proper bed cover, well I say hidden - put it in the last place any sane human being would look but apparently I was just being thick
The other question I've asked is what people feel about charging a nominal £100 or so for a sea trial. Traditionally to get a sea trial you are supposed to pony up a 10% deposit on the basis it's only refundable on detection of fairly significant shortcomings during the trial. Within reason I'm quite relaxed about popping out for half an hour to show everything works but I don' fancy entertaining people out on a casual family outing, or someone wanting to check a Princess 42 flybridge isn't for them prior to going off and buying something else.
If need be I'm happy to refund the £100 on completion although given the boat's value I'm not sure the odd £100 is going to make much difference!
I've had mixed thoughts on the motor boat forum so what do you guys think ?
Thanks in advance for your collective input.
Henry
I posted up a link to a little micro site I'd done to host photos and details of our boat which we are selling in order to upgrade to a larger model within the Princess flybridge range. I wanted to show how I thought it should be done and ask for advice as to how things might be improved.
The site is here: Princess 42 for sale
I was worried at the time that my post would come across as being arrogant and I nearly didn't post it. I'm glad I did because it's now into it's 7th page and I've had some great advice as to little changes. Things like putting a description under each photo for instance.
What do the collective Pistonheads massiv think? Any other ideas which are relatively easy to implement. I'm going to re photograph the master cabin. At the time Mrs Henry-F had hidden the proper bed cover, well I say hidden - put it in the last place any sane human being would look but apparently I was just being thick
The other question I've asked is what people feel about charging a nominal £100 or so for a sea trial. Traditionally to get a sea trial you are supposed to pony up a 10% deposit on the basis it's only refundable on detection of fairly significant shortcomings during the trial. Within reason I'm quite relaxed about popping out for half an hour to show everything works but I don' fancy entertaining people out on a casual family outing, or someone wanting to check a Princess 42 flybridge isn't for them prior to going off and buying something else.
If need be I'm happy to refund the £100 on completion although given the boat's value I'm not sure the odd £100 is going to make much difference!
I've had mixed thoughts on the motor boat forum so what do you guys think ?
Thanks in advance for your collective input.
Henry
Thanks for that.
The dimensions and capacities are actually in one of the photos, I photographed the original brochure for layout and dimensions.
I didn't specifically build the site to bypass a broker, more to compliment their efforts. Princess are a bit limited in their brokerage. Princess.com has no links to actual boats for sale, you have to go to Princess.co.uk Once there the presentation is formulaic and only has a few small photos. You don't go on their site and drool over pictures of the boat you're looking at which I want to do when I'm buying. I haven't got it listed with Princess but expected to do so when I started out. I'm not try take food from anyone's mouth. I've already had an off the record chat with a customer (on the Porsche side) who sells boats and said I'm happy to make sure they get what's fair in the event they have a customer.
I think at this level it probably takes a little while to sell a boat though why so long I never know.
The sea trial is an interesting one. I think the answer is to take each approach on it's own merit. If after a few goes you get the sense people are taking the P you act accordingly.
Henry
The dimensions and capacities are actually in one of the photos, I photographed the original brochure for layout and dimensions.
I didn't specifically build the site to bypass a broker, more to compliment their efforts. Princess are a bit limited in their brokerage. Princess.com has no links to actual boats for sale, you have to go to Princess.co.uk Once there the presentation is formulaic and only has a few small photos. You don't go on their site and drool over pictures of the boat you're looking at which I want to do when I'm buying. I haven't got it listed with Princess but expected to do so when I started out. I'm not try take food from anyone's mouth. I've already had an off the record chat with a customer (on the Porsche side) who sells boats and said I'm happy to make sure they get what's fair in the event they have a customer.
I think at this level it probably takes a little while to sell a boat though why so long I never know.
The sea trial is an interesting one. I think the answer is to take each approach on it's own merit. If after a few goes you get the sense people are taking the P you act accordingly.
Henry
Huntsman said:
I think your website is very good, there is defo a link between seller effort and making a sale as you well know. Presentation is very important.
Will other websites (apolloduck etc) allow links? Otherwise how will you penetrate the market?
Its a tricky thing the sea trial, I once tried to sell mine, told a chap it was for sale at £30k, but not for any less, he drove from Cornwall to Hamble, he had a folder of articles and race results over the years, I thought he had to be serious.
He gave the boat a cursory glance, not what I would call a full inspection and asked if we could go out, ordinarily I would have obliged, but on this day I was not too keen, it was blowing a 7.
As he had driven a long way I gave in, we bashed up and down Southampton water, he drove, everything was fine. He told me he thought the boat was worth £27k, I said that fine, but its not for sale at £27k, its £30k. He buggered off in a sulk, then emailed a few days later and offered £25k, I ignored him. I never worked out if he was serious or not.
Its a good job he didn't buy it, I had it in mind to buy a light aircraft and learn to fly, I'd be upside down in a field of wreckage by now!
It's on the ApolloDuck site, went on last night and they do allow a link. To be fair they allow quite a lot of photos on their own site. It's a bit awkward to navigate around and I'll have a bit of a tidy up of the advert on there when I get a moment. Will other websites (apolloduck etc) allow links? Otherwise how will you penetrate the market?
Its a tricky thing the sea trial, I once tried to sell mine, told a chap it was for sale at £30k, but not for any less, he drove from Cornwall to Hamble, he had a folder of articles and race results over the years, I thought he had to be serious.
He gave the boat a cursory glance, not what I would call a full inspection and asked if we could go out, ordinarily I would have obliged, but on this day I was not too keen, it was blowing a 7.
As he had driven a long way I gave in, we bashed up and down Southampton water, he drove, everything was fine. He told me he thought the boat was worth £27k, I said that fine, but its not for sale at £27k, its £30k. He buggered off in a sulk, then emailed a few days later and offered £25k, I ignored him. I never worked out if he was serious or not.
Its a good job he didn't buy it, I had it in mind to buy a light aircraft and learn to fly, I'd be upside down in a field of wreckage by now!
You realise just how lovely and clean the Pistonheads classified adverts are when you go elsewhere !
Henry
Rum Runner said:
With regards to photos,as brokers we have to work with what we have got. Many owners will not pay for a valet. Also we would rather people see the boat with warts and all so to speak as many people travel a long way to view .
The last thing you want is a over sold boat, wastes time and destroys reputations.
On a boat with value as yours carries, I would strongly advise you put it through a proper broker and the process done to BMF / MCA standard. Title and paperwork, is a issue if buyers require finance its a long process these days. Control of the funds and outstanding bills, survey, engineers report on engines is all a concern for buyers.
Trying to save a few K by not wanting to pay a broker commission could end up costing you help of a lot more and waste a lot of time.
Many brokerages will feed out to all the major top ten dealer sites such as Yachtworld, Yachtmarket etc.
Feel free to contact me, you maybe out of my geographical area but I can point you in the right direction.
I have a very good relationship with Princess from whom I bought the boat new. I had intended listing it with them and did a similar thing when I sold my Phantom 42. I'm honourable enough to ensure they are suitably compensated for their efforts. We have already discussed a figure which I'm happy with. The last thing you want is a over sold boat, wastes time and destroys reputations.
On a boat with value as yours carries, I would strongly advise you put it through a proper broker and the process done to BMF / MCA standard. Title and paperwork, is a issue if buyers require finance its a long process these days. Control of the funds and outstanding bills, survey, engineers report on engines is all a concern for buyers.
Trying to save a few K by not wanting to pay a broker commission could end up costing you help of a lot more and waste a lot of time.
Many brokerages will feed out to all the major top ten dealer sites such as Yachtworld, Yachtmarket etc.
Feel free to contact me, you maybe out of my geographical area but I can point you in the right direction.
Paperwork wise I think it helps being a 1 owner boat bought new in the UK as a private purchase and kept in the UK all its life. There are no Vat issues and the paper trail is simple. We also have a full consumer credit licence on which I am listed, so that may help. But I take your point.
I suspect I will be buying my next boat through Princess, in fact I already know which one it will be subject to availability when mine has sold. So to some extent I'm proving your argument, although there isn't actually anything available privately. All the private sales tend to either be oddball manufacturers or else people living in a dream world price wise. I think a broker can be useful in advising the owner of what constitutes a sensible offer. I'm possibly slightly unique in that my day job involves negotiating and I think I know what's fair.
Henry
Rum Runner said:
Henry what you said is very fair, one thing I would say and we do find it happens, as you well know it can be the same with cars.
If a fairly recent ( age wise )used boat goes on brokerage with the same franchised dealer there can be a conflict of interest. In hard times when people are selling new boats in some cases less than cost, often a buyers interest in the used boat is swung by the dealer into a heavily discounted new boat.
Also the main dealer will sometimes over price the used boat as to not make the depreciation look scary to a potential new boat purchaser.
End result is that some of these boats end up being over priced and hanging around the dealers on brokerage for long periods. They also quite often stipulate sole brokerage agreements .
I am not saying it is always the case, just more point that it does happen.
I've spoken with Princess today and it's going on their brokerage. I'm still listing it independently but their fees are very sensible so I'm not looking to cut them out of the equation, merely reinforce what they are doing. I have set the price and there are enough boats outside the Princess network to make valuing it realistically a fairly easy job.If a fairly recent ( age wise )used boat goes on brokerage with the same franchised dealer there can be a conflict of interest. In hard times when people are selling new boats in some cases less than cost, often a buyers interest in the used boat is swung by the dealer into a heavily discounted new boat.
Also the main dealer will sometimes over price the used boat as to not make the depreciation look scary to a potential new boat purchaser.
End result is that some of these boats end up being over priced and hanging around the dealers on brokerage for long periods. They also quite often stipulate sole brokerage agreements .
I am not saying it is always the case, just more point that it does happen.
Since buying the boat in 2007 the list price of a new 42 has increased by 25%, on top of that Vat has also gone up from 17.5 to 20%. I know what the cost (to a dealer) price is of a new P42 and there would be a significant jump even if they were working to merely pass the boat on, particularly given all you are buying is depreciation.
That being the case I'm happy there is no conflict of interest.
Henry
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