Private Pilots Licence
Discussion
A while ago I was given a voucher for a 60 min Extended flight voucher for a present and was looking to book this up in the next few months before it expires.
Shoreham Aviation flight centre is likely to be the most convenient location for me - on looking at their website, I was distracted by their PPL packages, which looks to be around £12k in total.
For those of you who have done this, how long do people normally take to do the 45 hours required flying time? Realistically one or twice a month would be the maximum commitment, so it would take 2-3 years to complete the hours.
Shoreham Aviation flight centre is likely to be the most convenient location for me - on looking at their website, I was distracted by their PPL packages, which looks to be around £12k in total.
For those of you who have done this, how long do people normally take to do the 45 hours required flying time? Realistically one or twice a month would be the maximum commitment, so it would take 2-3 years to complete the hours.
Thanks - I’ve not even had the trial experience, so this is somewhat getting ahead of myself, but assuming I enjoy the experience, I do like getting new skills and the technical nature (mathematics etc) appeals to me - similar to when I did Scuba diving etc. I ’ve been doing exams all my life, so these don’t put me off at all!
The £12k cost (does this seem reasonable as in all-in cost?) is feasible if it is spread over 2-3years, is there anything else I need to think about?
I was wondering about purchasing the first PPL book to read up ahead of my trial experience - would this help make my first experience more interesting, do you think?
The £12k cost (does this seem reasonable as in all-in cost?) is feasible if it is spread over 2-3years, is there anything else I need to think about?
I was wondering about purchasing the first PPL book to read up ahead of my trial experience - would this help make my first experience more interesting, do you think?
Edited by Sport_Turismo_GTS on Sunday 31st December 14:41
Just seen this:
https://flyer.co.uk/shorehams-fta-flight-school-cl...
But the Shoreham website suggests that they are offering training / flight experiences again, so I assume this got resolved.
https://flyer.co.uk/shorehams-fta-flight-school-cl...
But the Shoreham website suggests that they are offering training / flight experiences again, so I assume this got resolved.
Edited by Sport_Turismo_GTS on Sunday 31st December 15:09
Sticks. said:
If that's the case it's not the first and won't be the last. I was told never to put a lot of money up front when doing a PPL.
I think you'd need to be looking to fly more than 1-2 times per month. Otherwise, weather being what it is, plus planes being repaired or serviced, you could easily go a month or more without flying and you'll spend half the lesson remembering what you did before.
Other costs will include club membership, charts etc, headphones were £500 when I did it so more now I imagine. Plus landing fees - if you 're paying hourly are they included?
Thanks!I think you'd need to be looking to fly more than 1-2 times per month. Otherwise, weather being what it is, plus planes being repaired or serviced, you could easily go a month or more without flying and you'll spend half the lesson remembering what you did before.
Other costs will include club membership, charts etc, headphones were £500 when I did it so more now I imagine. Plus landing fees - if you 're paying hourly are they included?
When I was suggesting two lessons a month, I was going on the basis that I probably could not commit to more than 2 weekends a month, given other priorities (and the potential costs), and wasn’t sure if this was feasible or not.
However, allowing for flying on both a Saturday and Sunday on the same weekend and/or the odd mid-week excursion (particularly in the summer months when the daylight hours are so much greater, and which would be much more accessible now I’m working at home 2 days a week), then 3 or 4 times a month, on average, might be feasible.
Let’s see how my first ‘extended flying experience’ goes and then I can decide whether this is something I want to progress or not!
Anyone have any experience of training at Headcorn airport?
However, allowing for flying on both a Saturday and Sunday on the same weekend and/or the odd mid-week excursion (particularly in the summer months when the daylight hours are so much greater, and which would be much more accessible now I’m working at home 2 days a week), then 3 or 4 times a month, on average, might be feasible.
Let’s see how my first ‘extended flying experience’ goes and then I can decide whether this is something I want to progress or not!
Anyone have any experience of training at Headcorn airport?
Sticks. said:
A friend of mine still flies there so hopefully this is still about right.
Some of the instructors there have been so for a long time, so very experienced and all very helpful. The one who taught me isn't though, and to al large extent it's who you get on with. If you feel it's not working, say so and change, it's your money.
So a pretty friendly and relaxed place with a club atmosphere. All grass, so subject to closure if it's too wet in Winter and you don't experience concrete/tarmac landings until you land elsewhere. Some people don't like it because of the (small) no fly zones and the parachuting. But the circuit is easy to learn and the airfield easy to find, (except from the S) being by a long stretch of straight railway and the area is largely flat.
There were (not sure if still are) 2 Cessnas, 4 Robins and a PA28. I hated the Cessna I tried. The Robins are forgiving in the last few feet, which is handy, though they get very hot in Summer. My favourite was FV, which is a 120hp because the instrument layout was vaguely sensible and it handled as you'd expect. I wonder if they ever fixed the P1 seat ratchet. The 108 I hated and the 140 and 160 are more expensive per hr though better for distances.
Summer and weekends can get busy, which is not only a pain but adds risk as people are unfamiliar with the circuit, plus parachuting and microlights. Planes can need attention on Mondays, so not a good day to book. Plane unavailability was an issue then. There's an opportunity for night flying late in the year. It's licensed to 19.30 iirc.
Given what you've said about your availability I'd choose wherever is nearest to you so you can go as often as possible, maybe book one last minute if the weather's better than forecast, say. Otherwise there's a risk of giving up a lot of time for not much gain.
That’s really helpful, thanks.Some of the instructors there have been so for a long time, so very experienced and all very helpful. The one who taught me isn't though, and to al large extent it's who you get on with. If you feel it's not working, say so and change, it's your money.
So a pretty friendly and relaxed place with a club atmosphere. All grass, so subject to closure if it's too wet in Winter and you don't experience concrete/tarmac landings until you land elsewhere. Some people don't like it because of the (small) no fly zones and the parachuting. But the circuit is easy to learn and the airfield easy to find, (except from the S) being by a long stretch of straight railway and the area is largely flat.
There were (not sure if still are) 2 Cessnas, 4 Robins and a PA28. I hated the Cessna I tried. The Robins are forgiving in the last few feet, which is handy, though they get very hot in Summer. My favourite was FV, which is a 120hp because the instrument layout was vaguely sensible and it handled as you'd expect. I wonder if they ever fixed the P1 seat ratchet. The 108 I hated and the 140 and 160 are more expensive per hr though better for distances.
Summer and weekends can get busy, which is not only a pain but adds risk as people are unfamiliar with the circuit, plus parachuting and microlights. Planes can need attention on Mondays, so not a good day to book. Plane unavailability was an issue then. There's an opportunity for night flying late in the year. It's licensed to 19.30 iirc.
Given what you've said about your availability I'd choose wherever is nearest to you so you can go as often as possible, maybe book one last minute if the weather's better than forecast, say. Otherwise there's a risk of giving up a lot of time for not much gain.
Headcorn is around 30mins away, subject to traffic, so this is likely to be the most convenient location for me. It’s a shame that the flight voucher that I have is for Shoreham.
this is my username said:
I'm a flying instructor.
For some people getting the licence is the priority - maybe they are on a journey to become a professional pilot, or they have a particular project or requirement for which they need to be able to fly. In that case the most cost and time effective way is to fly frequently so that by the time you are near the end of the course you haven't forgotten too much of the stuff that you were taught at the beginning.
For most people they are looking for a new leisure activity - in which case getting a licence is a journey not a destination. It doesn't matter how long or how many hours it takes as long as you are enjoying yourself on the way. Flying doesn't suddenly become free (or even cheap) once you have a licence, so extra hours with an instructor aren't costing you much more than you would be paying if you are flying on your own.
If someone comes to me and tells me that they are planning to fly once a month, I will normally tell them that they are unlikely to ever get a licence with that run-rate. If they come once a week, then it will work. Somewhere between the two there is a cross-over where achieving a licence will happen - where that is depends on their ability and how much effort they put in.
As others have said - avoid paying up front (flying schools regularly go bust; offering discounts for up-front payments is not a sign of good financial stability), and if you do pay up front use your credit card.
Thank you.For some people getting the licence is the priority - maybe they are on a journey to become a professional pilot, or they have a particular project or requirement for which they need to be able to fly. In that case the most cost and time effective way is to fly frequently so that by the time you are near the end of the course you haven't forgotten too much of the stuff that you were taught at the beginning.
For most people they are looking for a new leisure activity - in which case getting a licence is a journey not a destination. It doesn't matter how long or how many hours it takes as long as you are enjoying yourself on the way. Flying doesn't suddenly become free (or even cheap) once you have a licence, so extra hours with an instructor aren't costing you much more than you would be paying if you are flying on your own.
If someone comes to me and tells me that they are planning to fly once a month, I will normally tell them that they are unlikely to ever get a licence with that run-rate. If they come once a week, then it will work. Somewhere between the two there is a cross-over where achieving a licence will happen - where that is depends on their ability and how much effort they put in.
As others have said - avoid paying up front (flying schools regularly go bust; offering discounts for up-front payments is not a sign of good financial stability), and if you do pay up front use your credit card.
As described in my original post, I’ve yet to experience an initial ‘flight experience’, so thoughts of a PPL are some way off, but I was keen to find out more about the process etc.
At this stage I have no intention of going beyond the PPL, for me this would be very much enjoying the journey and potentially having a new leisure activity that I could participate in in the future.
Siko said:
Some good advice above but there are multiple ways to get your ppl. I started paying for lessons (PPL A) during a year out from uni and did one a month, interspersed with lots of Microsoft Flight Sim (95?) practice to refresh what I learnt. Whilst I ran out of money after 7 or so, it ignited a passion and here I am nearly 30 years later with a relatively modest 6500hrs military/civilian. Currently hold an ATPL H and fly offshore for a living….so you never know where those trial lessons and even a handful of hours might take you. Good luck and have fun 
I’m too old for a career change, but as a new hobby this could be an interesting journey!MesoForm said:
I did the 1 hour experience from Norwich airport, the instructor said the main difference between me (who has no intention of taking it further) and someone doing the PPL was him explaining the pre-flight checklist in more detail.
Was quite a shock being told I was in control of taxiing around Norwich airport near the airliners steering with the rudder controls! It’s good fun though, I was lucky and had a clear blue sky with next to no wind at the third attempt after cancellations due to weather and a broken plane.
For the flight experience, I’d assumed that the instructor would do everything up to and including take-off and when we were up in the air i might be able to feel the controls and undertake some very simple manoeuvres, before the instructor took over and brought us back ‘home’.Was quite a shock being told I was in control of taxiing around Norwich airport near the airliners steering with the rudder controls! It’s good fun though, I was lucky and had a clear blue sky with next to no wind at the third attempt after cancellations due to weather and a broken plane.
I hadn’t expected it to be so ‘hands on’.
Sticks. said:
Can you still fly the likes of Cessnas/Robins on a NPPL and take passengers? It's something I didn't look into when I did my Class 2/PPL but might now.
Sorry, thread hijack.
I read something about the NPPL allowing you to fly up to 3 passengers, subject to certain restrictions. But, quite clearly, I’m not the expert here!Sorry, thread hijack.
MesoForm said:
I can only speak for my experience but on the ground he got us going and off the grass, I steered when we were on the concrete around up to where we stopped to do the checklist (5 minutes I guess), he was in control of the throttle and brakes.
He took off, got us a few minutes away from the airport then I did all the flying up to the last few minutes before landing. Again, he had the power so I just did the ‘steering’, we did a few turns, tried the rudders to show what they did but mostly just flew around North Norfolk enjoying the view.
(He was flying those circles just South of Fakenham too while I was taking photos!)
Thanks.He took off, got us a few minutes away from the airport then I did all the flying up to the last few minutes before landing. Again, he had the power so I just did the ‘steering’, we did a few turns, tried the rudders to show what they did but mostly just flew around North Norfolk enjoying the view.
(He was flying those circles just South of Fakenham too while I was taking photos!)
48k said:
Bear in mind the 45 hours is the minimum required for a licence, it's not really a question of how long will it take you to do the 45 hours but a question of how many hours will it take you to complete the syllabus at one or two lessons per month. IME one or two lessons a month would not be regular enough to achieve material progress through the syllabus to complete it in 45 hours for a few reasons, including:
- each lesson will include more refresher of what you did on the previous lesson if that lesson was 2-3 weeks ago than if it was 2-3 days ago.
- the above can be compounded if you don't get the same instructor from lesson to lesson to lesson so there is an aspect of student-pupil familiarity and relationship building
- similarly it's ideal for the learning curve if you can have the same type of aircraft for all your lessons (switching between say C152 and PA28 from lesson to lesson is less ideal than just sticking with one type) so check if your chosen lesson schedule is going to fit with the schools aircraft availability
- several aspects of learning to fly have a "knack" to them and that knack sinks in quicker with regular repetition
- the great British weather may conspire to write off one or both of the two days in the month you were available to fly so your gap between lessons is even longer
So make sure you have realistic expectations about hours and costs.
For costs in particular - make sure you understand what is and more importantly what is not included in that 12K total. For example that figure may or may not include home landing fees and may or may not include home touch and go fees, but almost certainly won't include landing/t+g fees for other airfields when you get in to doing land aways and the navigation part of the syllabus. There may be fuel surchages. The figure almost certainly won't include ground school equipment like the books, whizz wheel, chart. You'll want your own headset. Maybe your own fuel tester. A kneeboard/clipboard. A pad of blank PLOGs. Chinograph pencils. A nice bag to put everything in. Lots of little bits that cost money.
And definitely as others have said do not pay large chunks of money up front especially at the lesson frequency you are proposing. And pay for everything on credit card.
Best of luck!
Thanks for making the effort to write this post - since writing my original post I’ve obtained a lot of extra information, including from the ‘Flyer’ forums. It very much aligns with what you and others have said.- each lesson will include more refresher of what you did on the previous lesson if that lesson was 2-3 weeks ago than if it was 2-3 days ago.
- the above can be compounded if you don't get the same instructor from lesson to lesson to lesson so there is an aspect of student-pupil familiarity and relationship building
- similarly it's ideal for the learning curve if you can have the same type of aircraft for all your lessons (switching between say C152 and PA28 from lesson to lesson is less ideal than just sticking with one type) so check if your chosen lesson schedule is going to fit with the schools aircraft availability
- several aspects of learning to fly have a "knack" to them and that knack sinks in quicker with regular repetition
- the great British weather may conspire to write off one or both of the two days in the month you were available to fly so your gap between lessons is even longer
So make sure you have realistic expectations about hours and costs.
For costs in particular - make sure you understand what is and more importantly what is not included in that 12K total. For example that figure may or may not include home landing fees and may or may not include home touch and go fees, but almost certainly won't include landing/t+g fees for other airfields when you get in to doing land aways and the navigation part of the syllabus. There may be fuel surchages. The figure almost certainly won't include ground school equipment like the books, whizz wheel, chart. You'll want your own headset. Maybe your own fuel tester. A kneeboard/clipboard. A pad of blank PLOGs. Chinograph pencils. A nice bag to put everything in. Lots of little bits that cost money.
And definitely as others have said do not pay large chunks of money up front especially at the lesson frequency you are proposing. And pay for everything on credit card.
Best of luck!
I did buy the Pooley’s Air Pilots Manual Volume 1 (Flying training) e-book which I am thoroughly enjoying reading - roughly halfway through already (231 pages out of 448) and find it fascinating. It does mean I have a (limited) idea of the basics.
Hope to book up my extended trial flight soon, and will be obtaining a Pilot’s log book so that I can log the hour, which could be relevant in the future!
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