How to play a CD - A easy guide.

[The_Burg]

JustinP1 said:

As a result, tracks were mixed and mastered with a lot less bass because basically the listener's system couldn't really reproduce it anyway and it would only induce distortion. To gain clarity on things like a snare drum, and to make a bass drum audible at all engineers used to have to boost a high frequency with the drum to keep the drum audible in the rhythm.

Sorry but i strongly disagree with this. I would in fact say that HiFi in general peaked around the late 80s.
Or do you mean 'HiFi' as in crappy midi system type setup?
There have been improvement to the true high end esoteric stuff but the average real HiFi has not.
(Strangely the death of real affordable HiFi died around the same time that CD quality declined, so not only has the horrendous quality of modern CDs affected the recording and artists it has also killed of reasonably priced HiFi. No longer are there specialist in every town, FFS even Dixons, Comet sold proper seperates back then).

[JustinP1]

The_Burg said:

JustinP1 said:

As a result, tracks were mixed and mastered with a lot less bass because basically the listener's system couldn't really reproduce it anyway and it would only induce distortion. To gain clarity on things like a snare drum, and to make a bass drum audible at all engineers used to have to boost a high frequency with the drum to keep the drum audible in the rhythm.

Sorry but i strongly disagree with this. I would in fact say that HiFi in general peaked around the late 80s.
Or do you mean 'HiFi' as in crappy midi system type setup?
There have been improvement to the true high end esoteric stuff but the average real HiFi has not.
(Strangely the death of real affordable HiFi died around the same time that CD quality declined, so not only has the horrendous quality of modern CDs affected the recording and artists it has also killed of reasonably priced HiFi. No longer are there specialist in every town, FFS even Dixons, Comet sold proper seperates back then).

Yep I am talking about what 99% of listeners were listening on - car stereos (if they were stereo!), midi systems, ghettoblasters etc.

Even an 'average' car system or £200 system with smallish speakers can reproduce bass in a way that 80's system just couldn't.

[GetCarter]

JustinP1 said:

The_Burg said:

JustinP1 said:

As a result, tracks were mixed and mastered with a lot less bass because basically the listener's system couldn't really reproduce it anyway and it would only induce distortion. To gain clarity on things like a snare drum, and to make a bass drum audible at all engineers used to have to boost a high frequency with the drum to keep the drum audible in the rhythm.

Sorry but i strongly disagree with this. I would in fact say that HiFi in general peaked around the late 80s.
Or do you mean 'HiFi' as in crappy midi system type setup?
There have been improvement to the true high end esoteric stuff but the average real HiFi has not.
(Strangely the death of real affordable HiFi died around the same time that CD quality declined, so not only has the horrendous quality of modern CDs affected the recording and artists it has also killed of reasonably priced HiFi. No longer are there specialist in every town, FFS even Dixons, Comet sold proper seperates back then).

Yep I am talking about what 99% of listeners were listening on - car stereos (if they were stereo!), midi systems, ghettoblasters etc.

Even an 'average' car system or £200 system with smallish speakers can reproduce bass in a way that 80's system just couldn't.

er... re: the 'what we were mixing in the 1980's' bit. I started mixing in studios (Battery/Eden/Abbey Road) in the early 80's (and have been doing it ever since) and that just isn't right. We mixed the bottom end (by and large), just as we do now. Unless it was for TV (where the speakers were truly crap), we mixed the best mix we could, hoping that people would buy decent kit to listen to it on. we NEVER 'mixed it down' to accommodate bad car stereos. I don't know where you read/heard that, but it just isn't the case.

And just out of interest, I have four good stereos in my house, and the best one was made in 1982

[Plotloss]

Studio mixing isnt the be all and end all of acoustic perfection.

I know of an album that has been mixed incorrectly because the top flight one of kind studio it was mixed in didnt pay enough attention to the rooms acoustic characteristics.

Play it through a system with room correction electronics and it sounds correct, turn them off and its way too bright, which can be evidenced by the fact that the massive monitors it was mixed on are way to much speaker for the room.

[RedLeicester]

Plotloss said:

I know of an album that has been mixed incorrectly because the top flight one of kind studio it was mixed in didnt pay enough attention to the rooms acoustic characteristics.

...and there's plenty more!

[GnuBee]

Plotloss said:

Studio mixing isnt the be all and end all of acoustic perfection.

True - but ultimately it's the limiting factor in what you hear. You can throw tens or hundred of thousands of kit at the "problem" but if modern mixing practices lead to smashed dynamics then it's all to no avail.

[JustinP1]

GetCarter said:

JustinP1 said:

The_Burg said:

JustinP1 said:

As a result, tracks were mixed and mastered with a lot less bass because basically the listener's system couldn't really reproduce it anyway and it would only induce distortion. To gain clarity on things like a snare drum, and to make a bass drum audible at all engineers used to have to boost a high frequency with the drum to keep the drum audible in the rhythm.

Sorry but i strongly disagree with this. I would in fact say that HiFi in general peaked around the late 80s.
Or do you mean 'HiFi' as in crappy midi system type setup?
There have been improvement to the true high end esoteric stuff but the average real HiFi has not.
(Strangely the death of real affordable HiFi died around the same time that CD quality declined, so not only has the horrendous quality of modern CDs affected the recording and artists it has also killed of reasonably priced HiFi. No longer are there specialist in every town, FFS even Dixons, Comet sold proper seperates back then).

Yep I am talking about what 99% of listeners were listening on - car stereos (if they were stereo!), midi systems, ghettoblasters etc.

Even an 'average' car system or £200 system with smallish speakers can reproduce bass in a way that 80's system just couldn't.

er... re: the 'what we were mixing in the 1980's' bit. I started mixing in studios (Battery/Eden/Abbey Road) in the early 80's (and have been doing it ever since) and that just isn't right. We mixed the bottom end (by and large), just as we do now. Unless it was for TV (where the speakers were truly crap), we mixed the best mix we could, hoping that people would buy decent kit to listen to it on. we NEVER 'mixed it down' to accommodate bad car stereos. I don't know where you read/heard that, but it just isn't the case.

And just out of interest, I have four good stereos in my house, and the best one was made in 1982

You may have mixed it in there, but it certainly wasn't there after it was mastered. The Dire Straits track in the example here is a case in point.

I am not saying anyone intentionally 'mixed it down' in the 80's, they just mixed it in the way of the current mode and fashion of the time. It was and always has been the playback technology of the masses which has dictated changes in this. For example, now the masses can hear a kick drum without a high pitched 'click' being mixed with it, you don't get that any more.

[garycat]

This image of Rush album average recording levels gives a good indication of how the dynamic range has been abused since Grace Under Pressure (1982) to the unlistenable Vapor Trails (2002)



Albums like Power Windows (1985) have real punch, whereas VT is just noise. You would think that musicians with the quality of Lee, Lifeson and Peart would have more integrity.

[Hub]

I am not an expert, and don't have expensive equipment but can tell when stuff sounds loud, distorted, and tinny. The Killers fist album, and Keane's last were quite bad in this respect, plus a recent purchase by a fairly unknown band called Longwave. A lot of it is distorted and to be honest, give me a headache.

I have uploaded a track because I am interested to see what the experts/audiophiles think of the loudness on this one! It isn't a great track anyway due to the annoying pounding rhythm, but it sounds pretty awfully mastered too...

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0UZXMJ69

This track is a better tune, but also horribly distorted, ruining the great drumming towards the end!

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y8V7O6MT

[anonymous-user]

garycat said:

This image of Rush album average recording levels gives a good indication of how the dynamic range has been abused since Grace Under Pressure (1982) to the unlistenable Vapor Trails (2002)



Albums like Power Windows (1985) have real punch, whereas VT is just noise. You would think that musicians with the quality of Lee, Lifeson and Peart would have more integrity.

Bought Vapor Trails when it was first issued and couldn't believe how awful it sounded, I genuinely thought there was something wrong with the cd and took it back to the shop (hmv in Bluewater as it happens) turned out "they all sound like that sir", the guy behind the counter thought it sounded ok I just listen to Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures now, it's easier.