"Modern Classics" 40 minute race series
Discussion
I didn't realise I was that quick!
In fairness, the car isn't PCGB spec, my dad knows the technical side a little bit better but we've done a tiny bit of work to it. Wouldn't be too much work to change it back. On the flipside we were running old Dunlop Direzza Hards which we first used at Snetterton (and subsequently Brands, Cadwell and Pembrey!). Hoping to get the race done at Oulton with them too. Good tyres!
In fairness, the car isn't PCGB spec, my dad knows the technical side a little bit better but we've done a tiny bit of work to it. Wouldn't be too much work to change it back. On the flipside we were running old Dunlop Direzza Hards which we first used at Snetterton (and subsequently Brands, Cadwell and Pembrey!). Hoping to get the race done at Oulton with them too. Good tyres!
My race report:
Well, I had my first race in the car on Saturday at Donington Park. My first race for 18 months. I was very nervous beforehand but I thoroughly enjoyed it in the end.
We had some issues, though. When we got to the circuit on Friday evening we discovered that the radiator had come loose at a Mallory track day last Saturday, and the fan had then chopped through its own wiring and damaged the alternator belt! Not possible to fix the fan (just don't run the engine too much when stood still!) and a couple of phone calls around to see if I could get a new belt locally didn't achieve the desired result so I had to plan to run it as long as I could and hope the belt would not snap! The contingency plan was to change the battery at the pit stop/ driver change if necessary! Fortunately the belt held.
Scrutineering in the morning was also difficult. The wiring has been a little problematic throughout but we thought we had it sorted. Wrong. The rear lights refused to work (when they had previously) and when we fixed that, the brake lights refused to work. I could have done without that stress! We got it fixed eventually only for the ignition switch to break up in the collecting area for Practice. No electricity! My trusty mechanic, Dermot, jury rigged a solution and we got out. More stress.
I had decided to race on some second hand Michelin Pilot Cup Sport tyres that I had bought off a PCGB Club Championship racer - however these tyres are well known to be not great in the wet. The weather forecast was for heavy rain on Saturday so at the last minute I had acquired a set of 15 x 7J Teledial wheels and mounted a new set of Toyo R888s (from my Toyota race saloon) as a contingency, figuring that these would be less bad in the wet than worn Michelins. Unfortunately in the Paddock we had found that the teledials did not fit - they were the right wheels but I had not factored in that the previous owner had fitted wheel spacers, and the nuts impinged on the inside of the wheel. My mood was not helped when Kevin Eacock wandered over, looked at my Michelins and said, "be careful, be very careful". Cheers. More stress.
Practice went OK - I took it very easy in very slippery conditions but there was vibration from the front discs. I had not noticed this at Mallory but it was marked at Donington. Warped front discs. Great. We qualified 26th out of 28 and 5th out of 6 in class. I min 53. The class pole was Robert Alman in a BMW 325 with 1 min 40. I was delighted just to be out there.
Come the race and the wet weather had thankfully held off. It was a rolling start but I was so far back I couldn't see the lights go out! I caught up the back of the pack and was going quite well for a couple of laps, ahead of a couple of cars. At Mcleans on about lap 3 I caught up with a Golf Turbo; he left the door open and I tried to go up the inside. Unfortunately he hadn't seen me and turned in, I braked but still tagged his bumper and bent my front left wing and losing the driving light in the process. He fishtailed on to the grass but carried on behind me. Sorry, it wasn't deliberate, honest.
The next few laps felt pretty good and the gap to the cars behind and to the cars in front was fairly consistent until I over cooked it at Redgate and had a tank slapper. I had turned in too early and got on the power too early and thought I'd held the slide until I got on the grass and around I went. Fortunately no one hit me and I carried on but a couple of cars got back ahead of me.
We had a slow pit stop after 20 mins for the driver change - caged 924s are not easy to get in and out of with my level of flexibility! and my co-driver continued until the race was red flagged on about 32 minutes. The leading BMW M3 had gone off at Redgate after losing brakes. It was a big hit but fortunately the car and cage did its job and the driver was wearing a Hans device. He is Ok, but has a broken wrist.
We finished 23rd out of 27 starters, and 6th out of 6 in class. Not great but what the hell. It was fantastic fun despite the morning stress. My fastest lap time was 1 min 31.6 and the nearest lap time to me in my class was 1 27.4 (MX5 and the 250 Bhp Honda S2000) and the class winner had a fastest lap of 1min 24. Lots to do to improve but not too far off an Elise (1 min29) in class B and bearing in mind that I was probably the second least powerful car (next to a Smart 4:2, yes, really) on the grid I wasn't too unhappy. The bench mark for me is probably the 2 x Mazda MX5 Mk3s with 170Bhp (20 Bhp more than me) and about the same weight as me. If I can get anywhere near them, within a couple of secs, I'll be very happy.
As an aside, I have looked at the lap times in the sister "Future Classics" series and I am delighted to have been quicker than a 944 (2.5) and a BMW E21 323, and very nearly the same lap time as a 4 litre TVR Griffith. I need to persuade the 944 (2.5) and the BMW E21 to come and race in my class so we can have a battle together!
All in all It was a thoroughly enjoyable day and at least I was out there racing again. The car has some problems to sort (brakes, electrics, bent wing) but it handles really well and is enjoyable to drive and that's the main thing.
I won't pretend that racing is cheap but at this level, with this sort of car, and with a co-driver that shares costs it is more affordable than many realise. Roll on Oulton Park on 21 Sept.
Well, I had my first race in the car on Saturday at Donington Park. My first race for 18 months. I was very nervous beforehand but I thoroughly enjoyed it in the end.
We had some issues, though. When we got to the circuit on Friday evening we discovered that the radiator had come loose at a Mallory track day last Saturday, and the fan had then chopped through its own wiring and damaged the alternator belt! Not possible to fix the fan (just don't run the engine too much when stood still!) and a couple of phone calls around to see if I could get a new belt locally didn't achieve the desired result so I had to plan to run it as long as I could and hope the belt would not snap! The contingency plan was to change the battery at the pit stop/ driver change if necessary! Fortunately the belt held.
Scrutineering in the morning was also difficult. The wiring has been a little problematic throughout but we thought we had it sorted. Wrong. The rear lights refused to work (when they had previously) and when we fixed that, the brake lights refused to work. I could have done without that stress! We got it fixed eventually only for the ignition switch to break up in the collecting area for Practice. No electricity! My trusty mechanic, Dermot, jury rigged a solution and we got out. More stress.
I had decided to race on some second hand Michelin Pilot Cup Sport tyres that I had bought off a PCGB Club Championship racer - however these tyres are well known to be not great in the wet. The weather forecast was for heavy rain on Saturday so at the last minute I had acquired a set of 15 x 7J Teledial wheels and mounted a new set of Toyo R888s (from my Toyota race saloon) as a contingency, figuring that these would be less bad in the wet than worn Michelins. Unfortunately in the Paddock we had found that the teledials did not fit - they were the right wheels but I had not factored in that the previous owner had fitted wheel spacers, and the nuts impinged on the inside of the wheel. My mood was not helped when Kevin Eacock wandered over, looked at my Michelins and said, "be careful, be very careful". Cheers. More stress.
Practice went OK - I took it very easy in very slippery conditions but there was vibration from the front discs. I had not noticed this at Mallory but it was marked at Donington. Warped front discs. Great. We qualified 26th out of 28 and 5th out of 6 in class. I min 53. The class pole was Robert Alman in a BMW 325 with 1 min 40. I was delighted just to be out there.
Come the race and the wet weather had thankfully held off. It was a rolling start but I was so far back I couldn't see the lights go out! I caught up the back of the pack and was going quite well for a couple of laps, ahead of a couple of cars. At Mcleans on about lap 3 I caught up with a Golf Turbo; he left the door open and I tried to go up the inside. Unfortunately he hadn't seen me and turned in, I braked but still tagged his bumper and bent my front left wing and losing the driving light in the process. He fishtailed on to the grass but carried on behind me. Sorry, it wasn't deliberate, honest.
The next few laps felt pretty good and the gap to the cars behind and to the cars in front was fairly consistent until I over cooked it at Redgate and had a tank slapper. I had turned in too early and got on the power too early and thought I'd held the slide until I got on the grass and around I went. Fortunately no one hit me and I carried on but a couple of cars got back ahead of me.
We had a slow pit stop after 20 mins for the driver change - caged 924s are not easy to get in and out of with my level of flexibility! and my co-driver continued until the race was red flagged on about 32 minutes. The leading BMW M3 had gone off at Redgate after losing brakes. It was a big hit but fortunately the car and cage did its job and the driver was wearing a Hans device. He is Ok, but has a broken wrist.
We finished 23rd out of 27 starters, and 6th out of 6 in class. Not great but what the hell. It was fantastic fun despite the morning stress. My fastest lap time was 1 min 31.6 and the nearest lap time to me in my class was 1 27.4 (MX5 and the 250 Bhp Honda S2000) and the class winner had a fastest lap of 1min 24. Lots to do to improve but not too far off an Elise (1 min29) in class B and bearing in mind that I was probably the second least powerful car (next to a Smart 4:2, yes, really) on the grid I wasn't too unhappy. The bench mark for me is probably the 2 x Mazda MX5 Mk3s with 170Bhp (20 Bhp more than me) and about the same weight as me. If I can get anywhere near them, within a couple of secs, I'll be very happy.
As an aside, I have looked at the lap times in the sister "Future Classics" series and I am delighted to have been quicker than a 944 (2.5) and a BMW E21 323, and very nearly the same lap time as a 4 litre TVR Griffith. I need to persuade the 944 (2.5) and the BMW E21 to come and race in my class so we can have a battle together!
All in all It was a thoroughly enjoyable day and at least I was out there racing again. The car has some problems to sort (brakes, electrics, bent wing) but it handles really well and is enjoyable to drive and that's the main thing.
I won't pretend that racing is cheap but at this level, with this sort of car, and with a co-driver that shares costs it is more affordable than many realise. Roll on Oulton Park on 21 Sept.
Yes - great drive Luke - really well deserved podium.
My race was boring after I was hit going into the chicane by a BMW taking evasive action to avoid the spinning 911. That created a big gap and, once I'd got past the BMW I could see you guys ahead scrapping in the top 5, but couldn't close the gap. Nothing behind me either so lap after lap of empty track. Though nobody ever wants a safety car, once it was out I was hoping it would bring us all back together, but the race was soon red flagged. I really hope the driver is ok and not put off by his crash. His car looked terrible, and that is/was a heck of a quick car.
My race was boring after I was hit going into the chicane by a BMW taking evasive action to avoid the spinning 911. That created a big gap and, once I'd got past the BMW I could see you guys ahead scrapping in the top 5, but couldn't close the gap. Nothing behind me either so lap after lap of empty track. Though nobody ever wants a safety car, once it was out I was hoping it would bring us all back together, but the race was soon red flagged. I really hope the driver is ok and not put off by his crash. His car looked terrible, and that is/was a heck of a quick car.
Ref Porsche 944 S2 No 68. No serious mods on the car. We have tried to save weight wherever we can. The car was a club car ex Cieren Brewer. The car was re shelled by EMC after Cieren wrote it off at silverstone. Only had 2 weeks to rebuild it. So the car never got dipped. It weighs 1125 kilos without the driver,i dont know what a club car weighs. Luke is just getting to know the car now and is growing in confidence every meeting. Ian at County Classics has also been involved with the car in recent years. So it is thanks to Kevin at EMC and Ian at County Classics for making this car perform as well as it does.Ps. Also Luke is a good driver and getting better all the time.
Bazz
Bazz
lukekarts said:
I didn't realise I was that quick!
In fairness, the car isn't PCGB spec, my dad knows the technical side a little bit better but we've done a tiny bit of work to it. Wouldn't be too much work to change it back. On the flipside we were running old Dunlop Direzza Hards which we first used at Snetterton (and subsequently Brands, Cadwell and Pembrey!). Hoping to get the race done at Oulton with them too. Good tyres!
Your too modest. I watched your vid and your hanging onto 4th on the straight which on the standard chip/limiter would have you topping out at 118 mph or so. My own car will hit the limiter on that straight so I have tended to grab 5th 2/3 way down the straight. Marcus's lap record with a data logger overlay is on his youtube feed if you want to have a look and compare:In fairness, the car isn't PCGB spec, my dad knows the technical side a little bit better but we've done a tiny bit of work to it. Wouldn't be too much work to change it back. On the flipside we were running old Dunlop Direzza Hards which we first used at Snetterton (and subsequently Brands, Cadwell and Pembrey!). Hoping to get the race done at Oulton with them too. Good tyres!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-sD-8k0okE
Difficult to tell from the engine sound but your car didn't sound monster fast down the straights to me so you must be driving the thing pretty damn well indeed to get that lap time.
BAZZ69 said:
Ref Porsche 944 S2 No 68. No serious mods on the car. We have tried to save weight wherever we can. The car was a club car ex Cieren Brewer. The car was re shelled by EMC after Cieren wrote it off at silverstone. Only had 2 weeks to rebuild it. So the car never got dipped. It weighs 1125 kilos without the driver,i dont know what a club car weighs. Luke is just getting to know the car now and is growing in confidence every meeting. Ian at County Classics has also been involved with the car in recent years. So it is thanks to Kevin at EMC and Ian at County Classics for making this car perform as well as it does.Ps. Also Luke is a good driver and getting better all the time.
Bazz
Hi Bazz, Mine weighed 1130 when EMC first finished it off (dipped shell but still has leccy windows, door bars, hand brake etc). A really light car like the green one they had and Graeme drove is down around 1090 Kg. PCGB regs dropped the min weight including driver down to 1165 Kg which is a very big ask if you ask me for anyone other than jockey sized drivers.Bazz
Oulton will be my CSCC comeback now that I have got over the stomach bug that me out for Donny, looking forward to seeing you all. Are you the same Bazz from the 968 forum? small world this game.
NJH said:
Your too modest. I watched your vid and your hanging onto 4th on the straight which on the standard chip/limiter would have you topping out at 118 mph or so. My own car will hit the limiter on that straight so I have tended to grab 5th 2/3 way down the straight. Marcus's lap record with a data logger overlay is on his youtube feed if you want to have a look and compare:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-sD-8k0okE
Difficult to tell from the engine sound but your car didn't sound monster fast down the straights to me so you must be driving the thing pretty damn well indeed to get that lap time.
Thanks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-sD-8k0okE
Difficult to tell from the engine sound but your car didn't sound monster fast down the straights to me so you must be driving the thing pretty damn well indeed to get that lap time.
I felt like the car was pretty well hooked up - you could probably tell I was on the limit a few times with corrections around Redgate and the Old Hairpin.
Thanks for posting that video - I did some quick comparisons, looks like the cars are more or less identical in speed, the only difference I noticed was a little more speed I carried through the Old Hairpin where Marcus dropped down to 3rd (I stayed in 4th) which could have been the difference in laptimes.
Our car does like to rev but my dad (BAZZ from both forums) doesn't like it... it's his car after all.
Also interesting to compare times with the sister Future Classics series, seeing as both the 944s and the 3 litre 911 SC are eligible for both - Luke would have finished 3rd in that race behind Tim Bates again and the TVR Tuscan.
Maybe as an experiment we should take the front half of the MC grid and the FC grid and let them race together, and the same for the 2 x back halves of the grids!
Maybe as an experiment we should take the front half of the MC grid and the FC grid and let them race together, and the same for the 2 x back halves of the grids!
There are pics from the weekend (inc the Modern Classics and Future Classics practice and race) here: http://www.davidstallardphotography.com/p822225447
David is the club's official photographer.
If you contact the CSCC Office:
http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/contact.htm then they may be able to pass on your message/ request to the E21 competitor.
David is the club's official photographer.
If you contact the CSCC Office:
http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/contact.htm then they may be able to pass on your message/ request to the E21 competitor.
e21Mark said:
What sort of cost would I be looking at per round? I couldn't do a whole season but certainly interested in doing Brands.
Entry fees are between £295 and £365, depending on the track. Brands, Donny and Oulton are the expensive ones.Beyond that you need to become a CSCC member (not expensive but I can't remember how much).
The rest is down to you.
I do highly recommend it though.
That's not too bad. I usually do a sprint at Brands in October and that's not much less, for what equates to 5 or 6 minutes on track!
Thanks for the info. I'll keep watching and hopefully look to do a round or two next year. I'll need to see what class I'd be in too, as my cars being modified slightly?
Thanks for the info. I'll keep watching and hopefully look to do a round or two next year. I'll need to see what class I'd be in too, as my cars being modified slightly?
e21Mark said:
That's not too bad. I usually do a sprint at Brands in October and that's not much less, for what equates to 5 or 6 minutes on track!
Thanks for the info. I'll keep watching and hopefully look to do a round or two next year. I'll need to see what class I'd be in too, as my cars being modified slightly?
Club membership is £39 for 12 months and series registration is £99. Luke has already told you what the entry per round is. I guesstimate £50 per meeting on race fuel and a set of tyres for 4 rounds maybe. There are other consumables but you can race reasonably cost effectively, particularly if you share the car.Thanks for the info. I'll keep watching and hopefully look to do a round or two next year. I'll need to see what class I'd be in too, as my cars being modified slightly?
As for the car and the class - it all depends on engine size and the regs are simple. Mods are allowed as long as its the original TYPE of engine and gearbox (and not sequential unless a production Tiptronic/ DSG type as originally fitted) and there are one or two other bits and pieces. Best to have a look at the regs on the CSCC web site. Its pretty straightforward.
Cars can be eligible for more than one series. Some people may race in both series or you can pick the one that you think best suits your car. For eg, my POrsche 924S could race in Future Classics or Modern Classics but I chose the latter because FC has a class of 2 litre to 3 litre and my 2.5 litre car would not be competitive in that class. In MC there is a class for 1.8-2.5 litre cars so I chose that. It would be good if the E21 323 and the 2.5 litre 944s raced in MC in my view so that a few of us could have our own battles with similar performance cars but, for the moment they have chosen to run in FC.
I'm definitely keen to enter a couple of rounds.
My car is a 2.5 straight six but I'm unsure if I'll be running injection or triple carbs? Hopefully the latter! My only concern is that it also has Group 2 arches and wider rubber than stock.
I'm expecting the car to be delivered back from being prepared on Friday. It will then just require the engine and gearbox install. The cage was finished the other day and the shell is being painted today.
My car is a 2.5 straight six but I'm unsure if I'll be running injection or triple carbs? Hopefully the latter! My only concern is that it also has Group 2 arches and wider rubber than stock.
I'm expecting the car to be delivered back from being prepared on Friday. It will then just require the engine and gearbox install. The cage was finished the other day and the shell is being painted today.
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