MR2 Championship this weekend... anyone else on here?

[RobM77]

Count Johnny said:

Methinks, there was a time (before BTCC, obviously) when the result of deliberately door-handling each other into a corner, and equally deliberately making contact, wasn't described as a 'racing accident'.

Am I missing something?

I can't comment as to whose fault this incident was, but I would hope that there is at least an investigation.

[Munter]

Z3MCJez said:

That second video is amazing/horrifying footage. If you watch it frame by frame (well, as much as you can on youtube) then it looks like the crash barrier deforms and becomes a take-off ramp.

Not good is it that. I wonder what difference a single layer of tyres would have made there or better support for the Armco.

I don't know what normally happens to that setup of barrier, but I don't think that was supposed to be in the plan.

[Count Johnny]

RobM77 said:

I can't comment as to whose fault this incident was, but I would hope that there is at least an investigation.

One would hope so.

Unfortunately, tin tops are gaining a bit of a reputation for this kind of thing; I doubt that this will really change while folk see the likes of Plato et al getting away with it; and I also doubt that the brainstrust in Colnbrook will do much about it when the paying public flock to watch such MSA sanctioned banger racing.

A wider missive could follow of it all being syptomatic of our 'me-first', 'f*ck you' broken society but, thanks to somebody else's oil, I really need to do some work to pay for my own expensive weekend.

Edited by Count Johnny on Monday 18th April 14:53

[RobM77]

Count Johnny said:

RobM77 said:

I can't comment as to whose fault this incident was, but I would hope that there is at least an investigation.

One would hope so.

Unfortunately, tin tops are gaining a bit of a reputation for this kind of thing; I doubt that this will really change while folk see the likes of Plato et al getting away with it; and I also doubt that the brainstrust in Colnbrook will do much about it when the paying public flock to watch such MSA sanctioned banger racing.

A wider missive could follow of it all being syptomatic of our 'me-first', 'f*ck you' broken society but, thanks to somebody else's oil, I really need to do some work to pay for my own expensive weekend.

Edited by Count Johnny on Monday 18th April 14:53

I agree with your sentiment (and have been on the receiving end of deliberate contact in the past when I raced tin tops), but of course we must be careful on this thread as we don't know what caused this particular accident. Note that there were three cars approaching Paddock, with the centre one dropping back before the corner. It's possible that when this happened, the red car on the right thought he was clear and pulled across and clipped the front of the retreating car, which would then result in a sharp turn to the left. I'm not saying that's what happened, but I'm just giving an example explanation that wouldn't be panel bashing or in any way deliberate.

[Count Johnny]

RobM77 said:

I agree with your sentiment (and have been on the receiving end of deliberate contact in the past when I raced tin tops), but of course we must be careful on this thread as we don't know what caused this particular accident. Note that there were three cars approaching Paddock, with the centre one dropping back before the corner. It's possible that when this happened, the red car on the right thought he was clear and pulled across and clipped the front of the retreating car, which would then result in a sharp turn to the left. I'm not saying that's what happened, but I'm just giving an example explanation that wouldn't be panel bashing or in any way deliberate.

You're right, of course, but it looks to me like the third car sensibly got himself out of there, when braking like a normal person, while the other two banzied more or less to the 50 metre board before doing anything serious about slowing down and...erm ...didn't.

I suspect your Formula Renault might usefully brake that close to the 50 metre board (and my Speads probably would if we weren't on endurance compound brakes, and I wasn't such a pussy) but an MR2?

Anyway, just my perspective.

[captainsensible]

I was spectating at the bottom of paddock bend so saw most of it and it was completely terrifying. The car on the outside had a good run from clearways and got alongside the left side of the car in the centre. They ran virtually the whole top straight line astern - then I believe that the car in the centre lent slightly to the left to give himself some room - they touched and both got on the grass just before the start of braking zone - so no proper braking - which is why they were travelling so fast when they hit the barriers. I just saw the car on the far side vault the fence into the spectator area - it was truly an horrific sight and I was convinced many people would have been killed. Absolute miracle but no one was standing or walking in that area but make no mistake if they had it would been curtains. The other miracle was the driver being cut out ok and thumbs up to the spectators. The air ambulance took him away but he seemed more or less intact and ok. I've raced and spectated all my life and I've never seen anything so potentially appaling as that.

The other poster was right the gaurd rail did deform and create a ramp - Dr Palmer needs to redesign that whole run down to Paddock.

[jagracer]

captainsensible said:

The other poster was right the gaurd rail did deform and create a ramp - Dr Palmer needs to redesign that whole run down to Paddock.

Speed bumps and Gatsos? It's racing, It's dangerous.

[UH-Matt]

.. makes what I did at paddock hill the race before look tame!

I had a great qualifying session for first time ever, was on heat 1 grid in 12th, made up to around 8th on first lap and then got too cocky trying to go around the outside too quickly into paddock hill bend..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHxl0Pq0s_w

got incar to upload of this (and I think simon the guy I was next to also has incar).

[RobboC]

I've noticed some of the wooden retaining poles for the metal barriers and indeed the tyre walls are in pretty poor shape, some appear to be quite rotten.

Saying that, I would of thought the ones there aren't too old due to the number of crashes there over just the past 2 years.

The result of the incident on track was a freak accident, I just wonder what drove the accident. Be interesting to see incar footage if there is any.

Luckily, I imagine not much more will be made of this, but I'm sure on another day, with just a few people in that area, it would be national news and I wonder where the fingers would be pointed.....

[captainsensible]

RobboC said:

Luckily, I imagine not much more will be made of this, but I'm sure on another day, with just a few people in that area, it would be national news and I wonder where the fingers would be pointed.....

Spot on - that point will not be lost on MSV - the notion that motor racing is inherently dangerous so no point in pursuing safety is unutterably stupid - on Sunday there were families and young kids spectating - the 750mc meetings do engender a family atmosphere - and what Mr. Jagracer is saying is they are not worthy of protecting adequately. Quite extraordinary and something even he wouldn't be saying if 15 people had been killed, and the terrible, terrible thing was it was only pure luck that stopped that happening. Mr Jagracer you can go out and kill yourself for a stupid Sunday afternoon sport but count me out.

[CDP]

captainsensible said:

RobboC said:

Luckily, I imagine not much more will be made of this, but I'm sure on another day, with just a few people in that area, it would be national news and I wonder where the fingers would be pointed.....

Spot on - that point will not be lost on MSV - the notion that motor racing is inherently dangerous so no point in pursuing safety is unutterably stupid - on Sunday there were families and young kids spectating - the 750mc meetings do engender a family atmosphere - and what Mr. Jagracer is saying is they are not worthy of protecting adequately. Quite extraordinary and something even he wouldn't be saying if 15 people had been killed, and the terrible, terrible thing was it was only pure luck that stopped that happening. Mr Jagracer you can go out and kill yourself for a stupid Sunday afternoon sport but count me out.

+1

When I get in a car I know there's some risk attached and while doing what I can to minimise it have to accept it. But marshalls and (especially) spectators are an entirely different matter. Especially as motorsport is presented as family entertainment.

[steveiow]

Terrible accident. I was sat in the end grandstand 7 rows up with my team. Couldnt believe it when Bgatov went through the gap and the secondary fence. Just moments before there had been a family walking through there. I felt sorry for the children in the front row, covered in debris. The mother was feeding her baby in the front row. Scary stuff. It did make me wonder if we would be racing later (locosts), but we eventually got out albeit a shorter race. However, serious questions need answering as to spectator safety in that area - certainly the fence design and the "gap" needs sorting. Good to hear that Bgatov is doing ok.

As for the comments about safety, as a driver, you limit the risk but you will never remove it fully. As a spectator, you should be at an absolute minimum if not zero risk. Specifically to the comment by jagracer - I am sure if you were about 10 metres from it, and saw how bad it could have been, you wouldn't post such flippant and frankly distasteful remarks.

[Bensonv8]

I was on the Patio of a hospitality suite, between the start/finish line and the pit exit.
The three cars involved started making contact just after they passed us.
The "Black Russian" No 55 was on the left and the red car on the right, side by side. the black & red car (i think it had a green roof) had his nose in the gap between them.
The No 55 and the red car moved towards each other and squeezed the black and red car, which bumped into the RH rear of No 55 and then into the LH rear of the red car, this turned the red car to the left, into No 55 taking them both off the track.
The black & red car braked and avoided the rest of the accident.
I then lose sight of them until i see the red car tumbling along the catch fencing.

I think i saw the guy in the red car walked away unaided, so no broken bones, i assume !!!?? well he did tumble to a stop rather than an instant stop.

It took about 30 minutes to get Andrei out of the No 55 car.
as they took him to the ambulance i saw him waving his left arm about, but i'm not sure if he was waving or trying to feel his head.
All i heard mention of was minor head injuries


Anyway, i think we've hijacked UH-Matt's first race weekend topic, sorry.

UH-Matt, how did your first race weekend go ??
Hope this accident doesn't put you off.

[Dowks]

Matt

Here you go, to save everyone watching me lap slowly, 2.10 onwards shows you nose in front and then off. Camera position is a bit cr*p and I should have really had cam 2 on the rear but will be sorted for Snetterton

http://www.youtube.com/user/dowks120?feature=mhsn#...

Simon

[RobM77]

Dowks said:

Matt

Here you go, to save everyone watching me lap slowly, 2.10 onwards shows you nose in front and then off. Camera position is a bit cr*p and I should have really had cam 2 on the rear but will be sorted for Snetterton

http://www.youtube.com/user/dowks120?feature=mhsn#...

Simon

That was weird, the driver in front braked, despite not being directly at risk of hitting the white car in front. The car was under the limit before it braked, but of course as soon as the braking force started it just went round.

[UH-Matt]

Thanks for that, I don't remember braking so your video has helped me work out exactly what happened... that would certainly do it !!

[RobM77]

UH-Matt said:

Thanks for that, I don't remember braking so your video has helped me work out exactly what happened... that would certainly do it !!

It's always nice to know what causes things - you can avoid that in future now!

[Z3MCJez]

jagracer said:

captainsensible said:

The other poster was right the gaurd rail did deform and create a ramp - Dr Palmer needs to redesign that whole run down to Paddock.

Speed bumps and Gatsos? It's racing, It's dangerous.

It's dangerous for the participants. It shouldn't be dangerous for spectators. As soon as a car ever leaves a circuit there should be a proper look at why and whether anything could have been done differently. It will happen from time to time. Cars can get higher than you could build catch fencing if things go really badly wrong, but to dismiss the notion that safety can be improved is stupid.

Jez

[RobM77]

Z3MCJez said:

jagracer said:

captainsensible said:

The other poster was right the gaurd rail did deform and create a ramp - Dr Palmer needs to redesign that whole run down to Paddock.

Speed bumps and Gatsos? It's racing, It's dangerous.

It's dangerous for the participants. It shouldn't be dangerous for spectators. As soon as a car ever leaves a circuit there should be a proper look at why and whether anything could have been done differently. It will happen from time to time. Cars can get higher than you could build catch fencing if things go really badly wrong, but to dismiss the notion that safety can be improved is stupid.

Jez

I agree, and for the participants as well. Yes, motor racing is dangerous, but why not make it safer if you can? Like most drivers, I've bought a decent helmet, paid out for a HANS device, got decent fireproof stuff etc, because I value my own well being, as anyone should. I don't race because it's dangerous, I just happen to love driving cars fast competitively, and the danger is a very unfortunate part of that. I could have just as easily got into any other sport. To dismiss racing as "just dangerous" and not constantly work on improving safety is a competely unnacceptable attitude in my opinion. I don't want my car slowed down, or spectator viewing impinged too much, of course, but if safety can be improved without detracting from the spectacle and enjoyment of the sport, then I'm all for it. The safety improvements here will probably amount to a higher and closer fence on the access road, a redesigned barrier, and maybe even a wider gravel trap. What's wrong with that?

[Count Johnny]

Personally, I don't think penalty points, licence suspensions and - ultimately - bans, detract from the spectacle.