"Modern Classics" 40 minute race series

[andy97]

If you have not raced with us before then you usually need to do two races with us to come to Spa with us.

There is an on-line booking system available on the clubs web site so as soon as the races are on there you can book up. Otherwise members will be sent out race entry forms and Supplementary Regs in the usual mail and you just have to return ASAP! The club does enforce the late entry additional fee and late entries are not available on line. First come first served.

Registration forms for the Series are available on the web site. You can download those now and return them to the club office by mail or you could do them at the Autosport show.

[andy97]

tbdgriff500 said:

hi Andy
I would like to run in modern classics this year as I have bought a new AJP Tuscan, I will be changing the induction and fitting a new bonnet to keep the silhouette but it has a drenth dg400 sequential box, they did have these in some cars back in the nineties, just need to know if I can run with it or not before I bother changing the induction. it is not really an option for me to swap boxes alternating between CSCC and BRSCC as the motec system is all mapped for the sequential.
cheers
Tim Davis

Hi Tim

I'm afraid that you can't run a sequential box in a Tuscan in Modern Classics as it was not available from the factory in this configuration. Sequential's are only allowed if they are things like the Porsche Tiptronic, VAG DSG or BMW SMG box in the same car type as available for the road.

To answer Paul's question about the Tuscan in MC - we allow them in to MC as they were allowed in to Future Classics some time ago under "cars in the spirit of the regulations" factor, and the fact that the Tuscan was originally planned to be a road car. It's a special case, I suppose.

[andy97]

rralston said:

Hmmm Modern Classics, very tempting.

Andy - did the Ginetta G20 get the green light for the series?

Cheers
Rich

Yes, we had a couple out at Brands Hatch and another couple out at Snetterton at the end of the season. Great cars for the 1600-1800cc class and quick enough to trouble many other cars in the bigger engined classes. Can't be many more cars about with the sort of performance (and reliability) these cars can give for £5-6K. Would be great to get a few out regularly.

Regretting selling mine, but then MC didn't exist then.

[andy97]

woof said:

Autosport rated the series 5 stars in the latest issue

Yes, I was very pleased with that, and I didn't even pay them!

woof said:

Will be out in a few rounds as there's quite a few clashes with the PCGB series.

Or you could do all of the Dunlop Production Porsche series races AND MC (on the same tyres!) at the same CSCC meetings and get plenty of track time for your (travel) money, and just do the non clashing PCGB and/ or Roadsports races!

Edited by andy97 on Monday 6th January 15:31

[andy97]

I'm not sure what days the Porsche races are on yet. maybe worth an e-mail to the series co-ordinator, Chris Clark?

[andy97]

rralston said:

Thanks Andy - what are the regs on running a G20 in a higher engine class?

Thanks
Rich

Rich, the engine has to be the same type as fitted originally, so in this case a Zetec. If you have a 2 litre Zetec fitted then you go into the 1800cc-2500cc Class, where the car will still be very competitive against the others in the class due to the low weight and low frontal area. Others in this class include BMW 325, Mazda MX5 Mk3, Porsche 944, VX220 and me in my lowly 924S!

[andy97]

From memory the Ginetta G40 I was involved with in Britcar (Pit wall not driving!) did 0.7 litres a minute with a 2 litre Zetec and that's a slightly heavier car and less slippy through the air than the G20 so you should use a bit less. Isn't the G20 tank 30 litres? If so you should be OK, the 1800cc cars make it with no problem

[andy97]

Mark Benson said:

It's close Andy, the way ours is mapped it seems to use about 1.5 litres a minute (we seem to regularly use around 13 litres in 20 mins) which would put us close to empty by the end of a 40 minute race. We know we get surge at somewhere around 4 litres and if there are any stoppages etc. I think we'd be in danger of running dry.
It's close, which is why a swirl pot might be all that's needed - we'll book a test day and do some more scientific measurements I think.

Doesn't the G40 use a Duratech anyway, probably a fair bit better on fuel than ours, especially coming from the factory?

Don't forget to factor in the Green flag lap (not much fuel used but if you are close...). On the upside there is the pit stop so there's a minute or so not at racing speed!

The G40s in the Challenge use a Zetec and the one I was involved with in Britcar definitely was a 2 litre Zetec. I think the later G40s, for the road, use the Duratec

Oh and 13 litres in 20 mins is 0.65 litres per minute isn't it?????

Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 8th January 10:32

[andy97]

You'll just have to drive slower to conserve fuel and not embarrass me too much!!!!!

[andy97]

moc said:

Hi Andy, we're just putting our diary together for this year and looks like we'll be doing a few more races in the MC again in the Mini R53 Challenge, are we better runnning this in the new FWD < 2Turbo class, rather than Class B which we did last year in which we weren't too competative...

I don't remember you being uncompetitive! I guess the answer is to try and see how you get on, and see which one suits best.

[andy97]

There is no mandatory minimum time limit to be in the pits unless you are an overall race winner, you do the stop as quickly as possible noting woof's comments above. You also have to obey pit lane speed limit in supplementary regs, be safe and not loosen / tighten belts whilst moving. There are observers and speed guns and penalties are applied.

[andy97]

Woof , we have looked at it a number of times and there are pros and cons. We don't have the resources to time everyone in all of our races (750 only have one pit stop race I think, most of our races are) and in fact many of our member s have expressed the view that they like to involve their pit crew (family and friends) in a format where they are part of the reason for a competitive result.

Being quick in a pit stop can be a source of competitive advantage and it's cheaper to achieve that than an extra 20 Bhp!!!

Those without a "pit crew" can always ask others for help and that always happens.

Edited by andy97 on Saturday 8th March 13:45

[andy97]

No plans to.

It's good that different clubs have different formats.

[andy97]

Spoilers etc must have been available as an option from a main dealer, although pattern copies are allowed. The onus is on the competitor to prove that the spoilers etc are genuine items or copies of genuine ones for that type of car. In extremis I'll ask for the part number!

Cars can run with aero from within the range, hence a Porsche 996 could run with GT3 (Mk1 Only) aero kit.

There is no doubt that some people pushed the boundaries in the past (and some cars from the previous Deutsche Marque series had been allowed to run beyond what is allowed and we let that go in a transitional phase) but we are going to tighten up this year.

[andy97]

The funny thing is that everyone points to Dave Whelan's Porsche 993, but it is legal as you can go and buy a 993 RSR kit from the Porsche dealer.

Similarly the John Cooper Works Mini kit can be bought but in contrast I am yet to have proven to me that you can buy a BMW E36 M3 "Super Tourer" type front air dam and splitter from a a BMW dealer!!

We don't have that many eligibility rules (probably about 4 pages less than most series!) so its not unreasonable to expect people to comply with the few we do have!

Pick the right car if you want to adorn it with go faster bodywork!

Most people don't have any issues whatsoever, from the Ferrari 355 Challenge to the SEAT Leon Cupra Mk1, all of who removed their additional appendages that were not from a road car model in the range.

[andy97]

shim said:

Me+1 have bought the EMc 325i and are looking maybe at racing MC mid season onwards.

Just thinking about aero rules (andy97) does your earlier post (996 running 996gt3 spoiler) mean a e36 325i can run an e36 m3 spoiler even though they are in different classes due to different engine sizes.

That's not saying the spoiler will make the car go any faster

Another question is if you want two races in CSCC what could we run in the same day or weekend (ie are there an invitational races)

The ex EMC 325 is a very good car - there's just one thing I don't like about it, and that's the fact its in the same class as me!

Yes you can put an E36 M3 spoiler on your E36 325 if you really want to, but you couldn't put an E36 M3 spoiler on an E46.

If you want to do a second race then CSCC sometimes do a 15 or 20 min Sports Vs Saloon Allcomers race in which anyone can race and which the entry fee is usually about £100-125 if you have already raced that day in another race. I think we have 4 of these races this year but can't remember at which meetings.

I think we will also have an Allcomers race at the Mallory meeting on July 2oth (IIRC) but there won't be the normal series races. If you have a car that is eligible for more than one series (eg an Mazda MX5 Mk1 is eligible for Future Classics and Modern Classics, ditto a Porsche 944, ditto an E30 BMW; and Renault Clio or Honda Integra are eligible for Tin Tops and/or Modern Classics etc) you can enter both races with a bit of a discount on one of the entry fees. Unfortunately I don't think that the E36 325 is eligible for FC or TT so you can only race in MC, unless we do a Sports Vs Saloon race.

[andy97]

Yes there is a pit lane speed limit and it is enforced by observers wit) speed guns. Transgressors get a drive through penalty.

I can't remember what the speed limit is and it may differ depending on the circuit.

[andy97]

27 cars entered so far for the first Modern Classics race of the season at Snetterton on 13 April and we haven't even reached the closing date yet. Awesome.

[andy97]

MB 1 said:

I'm booked up for Snet and looking forward to it.

Just a question on tyres.. I've always used A048 but this year the other series I run in uses R888 so I've got a set of these now. Are they suitable for a 40 minute race?

Also, is it allowed for someone to help you with belts when you pit?

I have used both A048s and Toyo r888 in CSCC 40 in races on both a 1000Kg(ish) FWD saloon and a 1000Kg (ish) RWD Coupe both are fine.

If you can have help with the belts it will be easier & quicker for you. If you don't have your own help, ask around the paddock for help. People will usually be happy to help.

[andy97]

Boxster66 said:

I'd favour A048 over 888,s......i have a couple f questions...Do we know who gets garages ahead of Snetterton? Also can we stop anywhere in the pit lane for our stops?

Don't know yet who gets garages. The series with this pleasure will be in the Finals when issued. Each series gets a turn.

Yes, you can stop anywhere in the pit lane (clearly sensible to co-ordinate with others around you), Unless you have a success penalty (not applicable for Snett) where there is a specific box.