Rust inside the steel frame
Discussion
3Dee said:
THAT - is very very scary indeed!
..and surfaces a worry for us all...
Have you spoken to the factory?
Makes me wonder if we should be drilling all sections and force injecting Waxoil everywhere!
http://www.bilthamber.com/dynax-s50..and surfaces a worry for us all...
Have you spoken to the factory?
Makes me wonder if we should be drilling all sections and force injecting Waxoil everywhere!
Edited by 3Dee on Wednesday 14th November 09:14
drill hole. spray dynax. fill hole with sealant, put rivet in hole, cover rivet with sealant.
kev b said:
If water is already present in a tube or panel then the preventative wax just floats on top, leaving the water to continue corroding the metal. Wax based rust treatment should only be applied onto perfectly dry metal. HTH
Have a read of the info on the bilt hamber website that i linked to. they do a product to clean and dry metal before applying the cavity wax.it's worth looking at the test results between the dynax S50 and waxoyl too...
V8Dom said:
Are the chassis not wax oiled before they leave the factory.... Im sure they must be?
No, the chassis is "air tight" until you drill the first hole for panelling (unless there is a faulty weld!), thus the build manual instruction to inject Waxoyl into the tubes as you drill the holes (and the one aerosol supplied with my kit in 1998 was not enough!)Welds start to corrode as soon as they begin to cool....weld through preparations/treatments being the norm on production vehicles and better quality repair shops.
Its a kit car Gents, what do we want for 5k ?? (chassis with cage and drat added)
I remember years ago a MK1 Mexico I did the motor and axle for had been treated since new with a black tar-like spray injection product, the name escapes me but it was excellent stuff .... doors, sills, inner wings, arches all the usual places.. mint !
Drill and injecting your newly collected chassis is the only way.. no-one else has a better opportunity to protect it.
Its a kit car Gents, what do we want for 5k ?? (chassis with cage and drat added)
I remember years ago a MK1 Mexico I did the motor and axle for had been treated since new with a black tar-like spray injection product, the name escapes me but it was excellent stuff .... doors, sills, inner wings, arches all the usual places.. mint !
Drill and injecting your newly collected chassis is the only way.. no-one else has a better opportunity to protect it.
Its all relative ........these are very small production numbers by comparison .
If customers want the chassis producing to a guaranteed more corrosion resistant standard... Im sure its possible but will cost proportionally..
The factory do advise you wax any drilled section !
If some corrosion occurs elsewhere within a short period of production Im sure they would look at it... its possible their chassis supplier picked up a piece of older stock tube in this instance, or spilled Coke in it, or or or ?
Stuff happens, the dealing of it is usually the mark of ones standards.
When Ford screwed up on the Mk3 escort design and had their washer pipe clip drilling right over the battery, causing it to overfill, spill acid and rot away the passenger side bulkhead so the battery fell through onto the glove box ...what did they do about it ?? They altered the clip mount but never replaced a rotten bulkhead. So a 3 yr old RS Turbo with a major ingress and bulkhead repair was not uncommon.. One or two partially corroded members in the odd Ultima chassis shouldn't be either.
The point about being British is spot-on .. Sadly a reflection of the whole system of motor production ... we have great engineering ability and brains but the execution and Government support severely lack hence our own-bred products eventually fail.
We do seem to be able to assemble other manufacturer products okay ....
If customers want the chassis producing to a guaranteed more corrosion resistant standard... Im sure its possible but will cost proportionally..
The factory do advise you wax any drilled section !
If some corrosion occurs elsewhere within a short period of production Im sure they would look at it... its possible their chassis supplier picked up a piece of older stock tube in this instance, or spilled Coke in it, or or or ?
Stuff happens, the dealing of it is usually the mark of ones standards.
When Ford screwed up on the Mk3 escort design and had their washer pipe clip drilling right over the battery, causing it to overfill, spill acid and rot away the passenger side bulkhead so the battery fell through onto the glove box ...what did they do about it ?? They altered the clip mount but never replaced a rotten bulkhead. So a 3 yr old RS Turbo with a major ingress and bulkhead repair was not uncommon.. One or two partially corroded members in the odd Ultima chassis shouldn't be either.
The point about being British is spot-on .. Sadly a reflection of the whole system of motor production ... we have great engineering ability and brains but the execution and Government support severely lack hence our own-bred products eventually fail.
We do seem to be able to assemble other manufacturer products okay ....
738 driver said:
Its all relative ........these are very small production numbers by comparison .
If customers want the chassis producing to a guaranteed more corrosion resistant standard... Im sure its possible but will cost proportionally..
The factory do advise you wax any drilled section !
If some corrosion occurs elsewhere within a short period of production Im sure they would look at it... its possible their chassis supplier picked up a piece of older stock tube in this instance, or spilled Coke in it, or or or ?
Stuff happens, the dealing of it is usually the mark of ones standards.
When Ford screwed up on the Mk3 escort design and had their washer pipe clip drilling right over the battery, causing it to overfill, spill acid and rot away the passenger side bulkhead so the battery fell through onto the glove box ...what did they do about it ?? They altered the clip mount but never replaced a rotten bulkhead. So a 3 yr old RS Turbo with a major ingress and bulkhead repair was not uncommon.. One or two partially corroded members in the odd Ultima chassis shouldn't be either.
The point about being British is spot-on .. Sadly a reflection of the whole system of motor production ... we have great engineering ability and brains but the execution and Government support severely lack hence our own-bred products eventually fail.
We do seem to be able to assemble other manufacturer products okay ....
i don't think your point stands unless you can prove that this is common across Ultimas. If this is a stand alone case then you would have to look at other criteria, such as did the powder coat get a small but deep scratch so that oxidation caused the metal to bubble, which then created a water trap? or did the suspect hole not get filled and sealed properly? or was there water ingress from elsewhere on the chassis? when the section gets removed, is there any evidence of cavity wax within the section?If customers want the chassis producing to a guaranteed more corrosion resistant standard... Im sure its possible but will cost proportionally..
The factory do advise you wax any drilled section !
If some corrosion occurs elsewhere within a short period of production Im sure they would look at it... its possible their chassis supplier picked up a piece of older stock tube in this instance, or spilled Coke in it, or or or ?
Stuff happens, the dealing of it is usually the mark of ones standards.
When Ford screwed up on the Mk3 escort design and had their washer pipe clip drilling right over the battery, causing it to overfill, spill acid and rot away the passenger side bulkhead so the battery fell through onto the glove box ...what did they do about it ?? They altered the clip mount but never replaced a rotten bulkhead. So a 3 yr old RS Turbo with a major ingress and bulkhead repair was not uncommon.. One or two partially corroded members in the odd Ultima chassis shouldn't be either.
The point about being British is spot-on .. Sadly a reflection of the whole system of motor production ... we have great engineering ability and brains but the execution and Government support severely lack hence our own-bred products eventually fail.
We do seem to be able to assemble other manufacturer products okay ....
Rather than (with tongue in cheek) blaming the issue on the country of origin, it would be far better to look at all the possible causes and tick them off when they are proven not to be at fault.
as a contrasting example, someone on here has already said that their 1997 chassis is showing no signs at all of anything like this sort of corrosion.
Edited by Life Saab Itch on Monday 19th November 11:05
Say little but quality...... its all in there for those that can digest .
Our lack of production ability is not personal its purely financial as most who have had previous business experience will testify . Only the box movers make the quick/big buck !
No suggestion of a big issue in my posts... simple reading here.
Our lack of production ability is not personal its purely financial as most who have had previous business experience will testify . Only the box movers make the quick/big buck !
No suggestion of a big issue in my posts... simple reading here.
The following picture is very carp but it shows a hole which I suspect was caused by the builder or modifier cutting the tube then blanking off with paper and filling with filler then painting! Some people have no conscience!
This is now fully rectified and properly repaired/replaced.
I post this to show how a builder/modifier can affect a chassis (or other parts of a car). Don't always assume it is the manufacturer!
Paul
This is now fully rectified and properly repaired/replaced.
I post this to show how a builder/modifier can affect a chassis (or other parts of a car). Don't always assume it is the manufacturer!
Paul
738 driver said:
Say little but quality...... its all in there for those that can digest .
Our lack of production ability is not personal its purely financial as most who have had previous business experience will testify . Only the box movers make the quick/big buck !
No suggestion of a big issue in my posts... simple reading here.
you were measuring Ultima products on the same level of quality as perhaps BL of the seventies...these arent mass produced tacked together in 5 seconds products , for the market they are in they are high end, therefore the quality shouldnt be an issue.Our lack of production ability is not personal its purely financial as most who have had previous business experience will testify . Only the box movers make the quick/big buck !
No suggestion of a big issue in my posts... simple reading here.
I dont think anyone has ever had any major issues with the quality of products produced and supplied by the Ultima factory, and i would think this is a bit of a one off problem. That being the case it does make your original post sound a little silly..
Edited by hedgefinder on Tuesday 20th November 09:33
None of that posted is bashing the Brand...
To say no major issue has ever existed is probably very inaccurate... there have been lots and Ultima deal with them how they see fit at the time and do whatever they can to prevent recurrance.
Im sure whatever can be done to minimise corrosion during production is done and there are instructions for the builder too.
But no-one is buying a top end, guaranteed-for-life fully treated, steel tube chassis here, the asking price does not support it.
There are others here who have dealt with tubular corrosion during re-builds or body-off refurbs. Bare thin wall steel tube and british climate just dont mix. Not so long ago there was a trend in the trade where coastal based cars were deemed potential rot-boxes, it wasnt unfounded either.
How many great british Marques survive our climate well ? (even the fibreglass offerings) . How come TVR, Jag, Rover, MG, Triumph etc etc get it wrong.. Even the worlds alleged best were complete rot boxes after a few years (yes RR/Bently)
Yet how do the Scandinavians do it?
Or how did a 60 yr old british made aircraft made from tubular steel (Auster) still look like new when bare metal stripped and boroscoped ... it had lived outside with only a cloth covered airframe ??
Anything is possible but is it financially viable ?.... thats always the bottom line.
The Factory dont sell you a lifetime warranty on your chassis and why should they ? Thankfully most last many years.. so having a handful of premature minor failures should be no surprise... I do not understand the flapping here...... Fill it with wax, oil, spray grease or whatever as soon as you can after collection and fingers crossed.
One simple point though, the hollow rivets supplied are far from 100% air tight. Even if using blind rivets with sealant there still exists the possibility of leaks and ingress.
G luck
To say no major issue has ever existed is probably very inaccurate... there have been lots and Ultima deal with them how they see fit at the time and do whatever they can to prevent recurrance.
Im sure whatever can be done to minimise corrosion during production is done and there are instructions for the builder too.
But no-one is buying a top end, guaranteed-for-life fully treated, steel tube chassis here, the asking price does not support it.
There are others here who have dealt with tubular corrosion during re-builds or body-off refurbs. Bare thin wall steel tube and british climate just dont mix. Not so long ago there was a trend in the trade where coastal based cars were deemed potential rot-boxes, it wasnt unfounded either.
How many great british Marques survive our climate well ? (even the fibreglass offerings) . How come TVR, Jag, Rover, MG, Triumph etc etc get it wrong.. Even the worlds alleged best were complete rot boxes after a few years (yes RR/Bently)
Yet how do the Scandinavians do it?
Or how did a 60 yr old british made aircraft made from tubular steel (Auster) still look like new when bare metal stripped and boroscoped ... it had lived outside with only a cloth covered airframe ??
Anything is possible but is it financially viable ?.... thats always the bottom line.
The Factory dont sell you a lifetime warranty on your chassis and why should they ? Thankfully most last many years.. so having a handful of premature minor failures should be no surprise... I do not understand the flapping here...... Fill it with wax, oil, spray grease or whatever as soon as you can after collection and fingers crossed.
One simple point though, the hollow rivets supplied are far from 100% air tight. Even if using blind rivets with sealant there still exists the possibility of leaks and ingress.
G luck
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