Sequential Shifter for G50
Discussion
I think I have a solution for a Sequential shifter for a G50
If you look at the Seqshift site, they have a page for bowden stroke measurements http://www.sqsracing.com/download/Bowden_stroke_me...
The model second from the bottom VAG 002,02T,02R has the correct shift pattern.
So what is needed is a lever system on the box to translate the selector movement into "push-pull" on the A and B cables.
Im thinking something like the below setup....
or like this ... so that the pink arm is a little longer and less affected by the in-out movement of the B cable.
If you look at the Seqshift site, they have a page for bowden stroke measurements http://www.sqsracing.com/download/Bowden_stroke_me...
The model second from the bottom VAG 002,02T,02R has the correct shift pattern.
So what is needed is a lever system on the box to translate the selector movement into "push-pull" on the A and B cables.
Im thinking something like the below setup....
or like this ... so that the pink arm is a little longer and less affected by the in-out movement of the B cable.
Edited by crafty on Friday 1st June 14:53
Edited by crafty on Friday 1st June 14:56
Hi Grant
Not sure that would work looks like there will be some twist with push pull! do you meen sequencial or just a cable system? this is an area i have played with before did a Hewland MK9 conversion to sequencial, we have a local rally prep team here and one day!! (never have the time) I will be making a electronic shifter for a mechanical box which would be ideal for our cars. Simon
Not sure that would work looks like there will be some twist with push pull! do you meen sequencial or just a cable system? this is an area i have played with before did a Hewland MK9 conversion to sequencial, we have a local rally prep team here and one day!! (never have the time) I will be making a electronic shifter for a mechanical box which would be ideal for our cars. Simon
The Sequshift is a sequential shifter for cable shift boxes..... have a look at their site - same one that Peter (UltimaCZ) has on his LS7'd GTR in the vid posted today.
The Sequshift is a sequential shifter for cable shift boxes..... have a look at their site - same one that Peter (UltimaCZ) has on his LS7'd GTR in the vid posted today.
The A cable movement is -21 to R.... -11 to 1st/2nd.... 0 for 3rd/4th and +10.5 to 5th.
On the G50 the rotation is very small so I think if the pink arm were long enough it might be OK???
The Sequshift is a sequential shifter for cable shift boxes..... have a look at their site - same one that Peter (UltimaCZ) has on his LS7'd GTR in the vid posted today.
The A cable movement is -21 to R.... -11 to 1st/2nd.... 0 for 3rd/4th and +10.5 to 5th.
On the G50 the rotation is very small so I think if the pink arm were long enough it might be OK???
Edited by crafty on Friday 1st June 15:14
Crafty
Haven’t read the attached pdf yet, but initial thoughts are:
The pink rod, and the light blue will need to have rose joints, rod ends or spherical bearings at each end in order to account for the rotation of the selector shaft.
Also, the yellow GTR in Australia, with the LS engine in it has 1 cable for managing the longitudinal movement, similar to the light blue link, and the rotation is handled directly by a rod arrangement connected in line with the pivot point of the shifter. Its probably not a sequential shifter. I think I sent you some photos a while back, if not they might be up on my site, as I think the original site has long since disappeared.
Also you mentioned a while ago about using some solenoids to control it all. Some of the teams in the FSAE comp were using an air powered system, they would only get a finite number of shifts with it, but it was light and only had to last to the end of the race. Managed to get the clutch, and sequential shifting all worked out. Was controlled through the Motec on the car I helped with.
Ryan
Haven’t read the attached pdf yet, but initial thoughts are:
The pink rod, and the light blue will need to have rose joints, rod ends or spherical bearings at each end in order to account for the rotation of the selector shaft.
Also, the yellow GTR in Australia, with the LS engine in it has 1 cable for managing the longitudinal movement, similar to the light blue link, and the rotation is handled directly by a rod arrangement connected in line with the pivot point of the shifter. Its probably not a sequential shifter. I think I sent you some photos a while back, if not they might be up on my site, as I think the original site has long since disappeared.
Also you mentioned a while ago about using some solenoids to control it all. Some of the teams in the FSAE comp were using an air powered system, they would only get a finite number of shifts with it, but it was light and only had to last to the end of the race. Managed to get the clutch, and sequential shifting all worked out. Was controlled through the Motec on the car I helped with.
Ryan
Crafty, I think you should make this into a product. But (without doing my homework), I think the design could be reworked to put the solenoids directly on the T/A (on, or really close to the shift levers) and then just run wires from the shifter. That way, the "shifter" could be paddles, buttons, or a stick, with up-down switches rather than long cables that run all the way from the cabin.
put the solenoids directly on the T/A
I had a bit of a look into the different actuators that are available, and there is probably something that will work
Getting the shift quick enough will depend on the power that they have available, and the amount of movement that is required.
As I don’t have an Ultima or a T/A at present, I would need some more info, specifically:
How hot,
How much moisture is in the area on the back of the T/A
Would probably want it sealed from dust as well.
I’m also not sure on the amount of force that’s required, and am assuming that once a gear has been selected, relatively little force is required to keep it in gear ?
I had a bit of a look into the different actuators that are available, and there is probably something that will work
Getting the shift quick enough will depend on the power that they have available, and the amount of movement that is required.
As I don’t have an Ultima or a T/A at present, I would need some more info, specifically:
How hot,
How much moisture is in the area on the back of the T/A
Would probably want it sealed from dust as well.
I’m also not sure on the amount of force that’s required, and am assuming that once a gear has been selected, relatively little force is required to keep it in gear ?
ezakimak said:
I had a bit of a look into the different actuators that are available, and there is probably something that will work
Getting the shift quick enough will depend on the power that they have available, and the amount of movement that is required.
Movement in and out is about 10mmGetting the shift quick enough will depend on the power that they have available, and the amount of movement that is required.
Rotational movement is easily adjustable depending on the length of the arm, but remember that
3rd / 4th gate is zero.... if 1st / 2nd gate is -10 then Reverse is -20 and 5th is +10
.... so the solenoid needs to be able to have two positions in one direction.
ezakimak said:
As I don’t have an Ultima or a T/A at present, I would need some more info, specifically:
How hot,>>>Engine bay temps I would assume 100degrees, but with exhaust nearby I would assume more... anyone measured exhaust temps?
How much moisture is in the area on the back of the T/A
>>>Wet when raining.
Would probably want it sealed from dust as well.
>>>yes
I’m also not sure on the amount of force that’s required, and am assuming that once a gear has been selected, relatively little force is required to keep it in gear ?
>>> zero when in gear.
ezakimak said:
put the solenoids directly on the T/A
I had a bit of a look into the different actuators that are available, and there is probably something that will work
Getting the shift quick enough will depend on the power that they have available, and the amount of movement that is required.
As I don’t have an Ultima or a T/A at present, I would need some more info, specifically:
How hot,
How much moisture is in the area on the back of the T/A
Would probably want it sealed from dust as well.
I’m also not sure on the amount of force that’s required, and am assuming that once a gear has been selected, relatively little force is required to keep it in gear ?
A servo will allow multiple steps. It will have to be PIC-controlled and use PID (I think) to handle the combination of moving both servo motors for the combination of two axis. I had a bit of a look into the different actuators that are available, and there is probably something that will work
Getting the shift quick enough will depend on the power that they have available, and the amount of movement that is required.
As I don’t have an Ultima or a T/A at present, I would need some more info, specifically:
How hot,
How much moisture is in the area on the back of the T/A
Would probably want it sealed from dust as well.
I’m also not sure on the amount of force that’s required, and am assuming that once a gear has been selected, relatively little force is required to keep it in gear ?
I can't imagine it takes more that 30# of effort to make the shift. Servos allow speed control, as well as position. So, a standard mode can be selected along with a "performance" mode (with a new program) with the touch of a button. Speeds of 4"/sec and 4" of travel can be had with medium-priced servos.
You may want to consider puting a "reverse button" somewhere away from the paddles (or steering wheel shift buttons) to avoid the possibility of shifting from 4th to reverse.
The clutch would still be "manual".
Ive searched high and low for a product, there does not seem to be one out there.
There's a couple of patents... this one references most of them http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6070485.pdf
There's a few more things that would need to be considered:
1. You would want to have some sort of secondary reverse block-out
2. You'd want to have speed sensor + rev sensors and program it so that you cant downshift at certain speed/rev combinations.
Those two reasons above could be why there is no product available... liability issues. The only other paddle shifter that I know of is http://www.twistmachine.com/ ... but this is for Autos... this system maintains a shifter, and only operates the fwd gears (once you have selected D)..... for the reasons above.
There's a couple of patents... this one references most of them http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6070485.pdf
There's a few more things that would need to be considered:
1. You would want to have some sort of secondary reverse block-out
2. You'd want to have speed sensor + rev sensors and program it so that you cant downshift at certain speed/rev combinations.
Those two reasons above could be why there is no product available... liability issues. The only other paddle shifter that I know of is http://www.twistmachine.com/ ... but this is for Autos... this system maintains a shifter, and only operates the fwd gears (once you have selected D)..... for the reasons above.
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