Ultima with audi engine's V8 Biturbo 650bhp as in Apollo

[GTRene]

At the Essen Motorshow was the Technocars GTR with a audi V8 very short engine, standard around 380bhp? and tuned version around 435bhp(no turbo's and with cat).
I also was at the stand where the Gumpert Apollo was and they use the "same" engine as the GTR does, but then with a copple of turbo's, its a biturbo V8 with 650bhp, and those are "clean" bhp's and reliable I think, here a picture of that 650bhp engine...

and here the figures from the Gumpert Apollo fitted with that engine...

The cars weight is just under 1100 kilograms its a 4.163cm3 with 650bhp and around 850nm @ 4.500rpm! high revs can go to 7.400rpm 0 to 100kmph in 3sec and 0 to 200kmph in 8,9sec and a higspeed of 360kmph acording to the brochure I've got on the Essen show!
just an option when you still look for an engine thats light and short and pass emisions.

René

>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 28th November 13:49

[G Man]

That graph looks dodge to me, should the power and torque lines cross at 5252 ?

[polus]

G Man said:

That graph looks dodge to me, should the power and torque lines cross at 5252 ?

Just out of interest (maybe this is something that I haven’t got to in my engine theory book ) but why should they cross? Is it a characteristic of a V8 or maybe when the turbo’s are on boost?

"I know nothing"

[steve_d]

They may not cross in quite the same way when the gragh is in Kw and newton metres.
5252 is a constant in the torque to HP calculation but is (I think) imperial only.

Steve

[canam-phil]

In these units, the graph cross will be at 9550

Torque NM = KW x 9,550

On a hp, ft.lbs graph it will cross at 5252

[GTRene]

Thats Turbo when it spouls up youve got a lot of torgue 850nm at 4.500rpm a peak power but still more then 610nm at max revs by 7.500rpm! and remember its in KW(the diagram) not bhp
So that sounds good enough for me, ofcorse a engine without turbo's got a smooter line but what you want?? 435bhp or 650bhp? out the audi engine...
René

>> Edited by GTRene on Monday 28th November 16:29

[chuntington101]

any idea how much one of these lumps would cost????

Chris.

[polus]

GTRene said:

Thats Turbo when it spouls up youve got a lot of torgue 850nm at 4.500rpm a peak power but still more then 610nm at max revs by 7.500rpm! and remember its in KW(the diagram) not bhp So that sounds good enough for me, ofcorse a engine without turbo's got a smooter line but what you want?? 435bhp or 650bhp? out the audi engine... René >> Edited by GTRene on Monday 28th November 16:29

Ahh yep... Thanks.

[cymtriks]

Will it fit?

The SBC with al the bits on it, i.e. the exhaust headers, is very narrow.

How much room is there between the engine bay top tubes at a point level with the back of the engine?

A 4 valve head V8 is normally a fair bit wider than an SBC. How wide is the Audi lump with all the bits on it?

[GTRene]

cymtriks said:

Will it fit? The SBC with al the bits on it, i.e. the exhaust headers, is very narrow. How much room is there between the engine bay top tubes at a point level with the back of the engine? A 4 valve head V8 is normally a fair bit wider than an SBC. How wide is the Audi lump with all the bits on it?

Don't know for shure, but the Technocars GTR uses the same? engine in theirs but without the turbo's, and I saw that car in Essen Germany and theirs a lot of free spare room for things because of that compact engine the Audi V8, here is a picture of that audi fitted in the Technocars(Ultima) GTR...

GTRene

[cjt]

Here's another way to fit the same engine with twin turbos....

http://static.flickr.com/27/63690518_4725cafab3.jpg

[technocars]

To AUDI engines: there are differences !
Our TECHNOCARS Engine is one of the new V8s - used in the future S4 - with a narrower angle than V8s on older engines!
Beware: The biturbo V8 needs lots of cooling by intercoolers in the sidepots which can be achived with both tanks being replaced from the sidepots and put elsewhere.
Best regards
Christoph

[GTRene]

technocars said:

To AUDI engines: there are differences ! Our TECHNOCARS Engine is one of the new V8s - used in the future S4 - with a narrower angle than V8s on older engines! Beware: The biturbo V8 needs lots of cooling by intercoolers in the sidepots which can be achived with both tanks being replaced from the sidepots and put elsewhere. Best regards Christoph

I'm not such a fan of an Turbocar, If I wanted more power and the engine can't go much higher naturaly, then I would not go for Turbo's but Superchargers, that way the exhaust is now problem(so is the extra place for 2 turbo's)
Those days there are some nice Twin Screw chargers, with high outputs...are there also chargers for the audi V8 engine's (both the "older" and newer narrower ones?) and to what power can they bring the audi V8 without losing much of durabillity?
GTRene

[chuntington101]

GTRene, i recon you could fabricate a whipple 2.3ltr to fit ontop of the audi engine! not sure if anyone has already done it but would make for a nice package i think!

Chris.

[donkeasy]

Hello,

The engine used by Technocars is a normally asperated engine (standard).
Motormanagement by van kronenburg motorsport, holland.
The other engine can only be an RS6 engine. I think with bigger turbo's.

To give you an Idea, of what you are talking about:
My (4wd) RS6 is tuned to 505 PK and 650 Nm from lets say about 2000..to ..5500 rpm.
You could go higher, but with a standard car the restriction is as always the gearbox.
My 1850 kg (empty)car goes 300kmh. When it is damped in corners it spins.
But if you put a set of good turbo's on it, the engine has massive possibilletys.

Personally I would not want to have the engine from the appollo.
It's like an old ford sierra cosworth 2wd. from 1975 technic. Over a field of 2000 rpm you have power. Not drivable at all. It comes in to fast and will spin then with 2 wheel drive.

Forget the high KW and go for: let's say 650 PK and a torque of 750 over 4000RPM

Greetings Joop

[chuntington101]

.....oe you could try and get one of these to fit!!!!

http://popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/

thanks Chris.

PS. sorry for yet another daft link but its just soooo mad!

[GTRene]

or the Audi DIESEL engine from the R10 new lemans car its got a V12 5.5 650hp! diesel engine a real TDI
looks like a nice biturbo
GTRene

>> Edited by GTRene on Tuesday 13th December 16:25