More 'Audiophile' bullsh*t

[TonyRPH]

Mr_Yogi said:

Well you can't say fairer than that, at least you've tried it

The Cyrus system I heard was: CDXT SE+/ StreamXP -> Mono X300 -> VA Beethoven Concert Grand's, and there was a subtle but definite difference between the streamer and the CD transport.

While my own system is much more modest; SB Touch -> 8XPd qx + PSX -> Kef QX30 Both adding the linear PSU and the toolkit mods made a more substantial difference to the SB than the difference between the CD and streamer in the Cyrus system.

Maybe your DAC is more tolerant of interference?

I've tried with several DACs, and of course there are audible differences between DACs, but that's obviously due to the design of the DAC itself rather than the transport.

In my experience, get the interface between DAC and transport right, and quite a few issues just go away.

Obviously, jitter will always been an issue to a certain extent, but even that is less of a problem than it used to be.

I tend to regard the DAC / transport interface in the same way one would an RF transmitter to antenna - with RF, matching impedance is critical for optimum signal transfer (or SWR for the more techie types).

I would also argue that interface issues would not cause the sound to be cold / warm etc. but rather would cause loss of detail if anything - but that's just imho.

[TonyRPH]

spikey123 said:

Heres one, do you leave your cd player switched on all the time? <snip>

I leave my DACs turned on all the time - CD player is switched off.

Generally, leaving a CD player switched on is harmless, however on some makes / models the digital display is known to go dull (Marantz, Kenwood + others).

[TonyRPH]

rotarymazda said:

spikey123 said:

One day I will try the suggestion of mains lead for speaker wires. What rating should I use for the mains lead ( 9KV ? )

240V rated is more than enough.

I tried solid core mains lead many years ago (cooker cable, good for 40A). It was rubbish.

Same here - I also tried the solid core stuff, but it did the sound quality no favours.

For me, it sounded as though somebody had inserted a graphic EQ into my system with the 1kHz slider pushed right to the top...

@spikey123 - re: 9KV - please insert the "not sure if serious" meme here.

[TonyRPH]

spikey123 said:

The 9 KV was a reference to the gauge of wire needed for a 9KV shower mains cable. Are we saying that a common or garden 13 amp mains wire can do the biz with more expensive speaker cables?

Ah, you mean 9kW (9000W, 37.5A).

That's seriously heavy stuff, and (in my experience at least) no good for speaker cable.

If you want to use mains stuff, get some 1.5mm 4 core cable.

ETA: Or some 2.5mm 4 core cable

You can bi-wire with it or simply double up the cores.

Edited by TonyRPH on Monday 31st March 18:04

[TonyRPH]

spikey123 said:

Is mains wire seriously a competitor for my Russ Andrews teflon coated weaved anti emi speaker wire?!?

I don't know, try it and see.

I'm using some basic Maplin 42 strand stuff - the thicker 79 strand cable sounds no different to me (I'm running 2.5M lengths).

Oh, and my speakers are 4 ohm too, so that would make them more current hungry.

I've also tried various other cables, none of which seemed to be of any benefit.

[TonyRPH]

spikey123 said:

Strange how folks like Russ Andrews make £100s from specialist interconnects and speaker cable. Wire is wire....isn't it?As with HDMI cables, if you get the 0 and 1s what possible difference can any cable make?
Now, once again...I have a 1992 Pioneer PDS901 cd player..ages old yet plays everything. So why?? did my Cyrus CD8SE2, Rega Apollo and Naim 5CD2 refuse some cds? Loads of expensive cd players that,,,well cant play cds, how hard can it be?

AFAIK, the Cyrus uses custom firmware to control the mechanism, and I seem to recall there were quite a few issues with the earlier models, resulting in returns to the factory for firmware upgrades. One problem was scratching CDs quite badly too.

Perhaps they are trying too hard.

I have an old Sony CDP-227ESD - and that reads almost anything, and very fast too. I also have a couple of old Kenwood players, and they too still play well.

IMHO, most of the British kit is grossly overrated.

You only have to look on Ebay to see how many faulty (British) players there are... Much of it seems to be built in China these days though.

But then so are so many other brands.

[TonyRPH]

spikey123 said:

Do you think that the Legato link made any positive difference? I believe that using the optical output on the Pioneer bypassed the Legato circuitry. I think it is a very lively player and as you said built to such a tremendous standard. They are really heavy and solid.

I have an old Stereophile magazine with an article about Legato, and how it potentially breached Wadia patents.

I'll scan it for you if you want to read it. There is some analysis of a Pioneer player from the time (not a 901 IIRC), but the similarities between the Wadia and Pioneer were interesting.

Here's a bit of info

Edited by TonyRPH on Tuesday 8th April 19:34

[TonyRPH]

With a non oversampling DAC it is possible to see the 'stair step' effect in the resulting analogue wave form.

But with oversampling the wave form is effectively 'smoothed' out, although I suspect if you could really, really zoom the waveform, you may well see artifacts, depending on the level of oversampling used.

Back when I had my turntable, I had a pretty decent setup, and for clarity, CD could not be beaten.

And the bass was superior too IMHO.

And to my mind, the convenience of CD (and latterly streaming) just cannot be beaten.

[TonyRPH]

budgie smuggler said:

I think you might have mixed up filtering (which prevents aliasing and restores the smooth waveform) and oversampling (which makes it easier/cheaper to build said filter)?

You are probably right - it's been 30+ years since I studied the theory - and haven't worked in the audio field for about 20 years, so am a bit rusty.

[TonyRPH]

robbyd said:

In defence of vinyl - I think you should hear a modern high-end turntable and you'll be very surprised!

My entry to the world of high fidelity began in the late 1970's.

Over the years (before I got a CD player) I went through various turntable / cartridge combinations and the sound was always satisfactory, simply because I had not heard anything better.

For me, the problem with vinyl at the time was that when you got a good pressing / production, it sounded superb. The trouble was, good pressings (of the music I liked at the time) were relatively scarce and expensive.

The rest of the time, vinyl just sounded okay to mediocre.

Then I heard my first CD player (I was working in audio repairs at the time) and I was blown away, especially given that it was one of the first (a Sanyo DAD8).

Latterly, I worked for a Sony distributor, and bought my first CD player (a Sony CDP-190) which was a budget model. I had a few reservations about the top end on that, but on the whole, it was better than the majority of my vinyl.

Later CD players removed the vast majority of my reservations about the top end, and on the whole the music was simply more enjoyable due to the lack of surface noise, longer playing time and the overall durability of CD as a whole.

And of course you could leave your CDs to gather dust without ill effect.

And yes - I'm aware of the claims surrounding deterioration of CDs over extended periods, however many of mine are now 20+ years old and there is no evidence of corrosion (yet!!).

[TonyRPH]

Regarding my post about non oversampling DACs on page 47.

Here's a capture - the red trace is the audio output form a Cambridge 340C player.

The yellow trace is the audio output from a NON O/S DAC.

Frequency is 2kHz.

It makes for interesting viewing.

Despite this stair step effect, the NON O/S DAC still sounds pretty good, if a little over bright sometimes.

The DAC chip used here is a TDA1543 - commonly used in budget CD players back in the 80's / 90's.

[TonyRPH]

spikey123 said:

<snip>it is the ritual of the high maintenance, mine is bigger than yours, mentality.<snip>

I think that's a bit unfair to vinyl lovers!!

Each to their own I say.

Personally, I could no longer be asked with the upkeep of vinyl, and sound quality trade off or not - I was happy to embrace CD.

[TonyRPH]

Riff Raff said:

<snip>


<snip>

Riff Raff - is that speaker not a little too close to your turntable?

Or do you tend to listen at really low levels?

[TonyRPH]

spikey123 said:

Oh no, not the " wife came in and said..that sounds great" quote. We all know that wifes are deaf, dumb and blind to widescreen TVs, hifi and anything technical that guys love.
I have seen the " wife loved the sound" quote so many times, it has become a marketing persons cliche

Wow that's contentious.

On many occasions. my wife has passed comment on my system.

Many women tend to have a good ear for the top end.

[TonyRPH]

TheExcession said:

Bit of a significant phase shift issue going on there

Out of pure curiosity what are the voltage and time base scales on those traces?

ETA - sorry you mentioned 2KHz

Edited by TheExcession on Monday 28th April 20:14

The phase shift is worrying actually, and I think it might well be the Cambridge CD player (one channel from Cambridge, other channel from non o/s DAC) I plan to investigate this in more detail.

I also connected an old Mission DAC (DAC5) and I observed an alarming phase shift though the audio band with that too (again, one channel from CD player, other from DAC) - you would expect the phase to be consistent from both sources.

The voltage and timebase scales were:

CH1 / 200uS / 2V
CH2 / 200uS / 0.5V

The non o/s DAC has a much lower output, as it is using a passive i/v converter.

It's about as simple as a DAC could get really, using a CS8412 receiver with the TDA1543 DAC.

Simple like me lol.

[TonyRPH]

spikey123 said:

<snip>I have expensive russ Andrews cable

And would you hear the difference if somebody swapped your Russ Andrews cable for a regular good quality mains lead without you knowing?

ETA: I meant without not with lol.

Edited by TonyRPH on Wednesday 30th April 13:14

[TonyRPH]

Yet more...

£237 buys you a pair or cylinders probably containing little more than a capacitor and resistor - possibly an inductor too.

But I'm betting they are nothing more than a low pass filter.

[TonyRPH]

spikey123 said:

Talking of interconnects. Russ Andrews used to sell atenuating interconnects to reduce the voltage/output of cd players. What a con, I believe that the clipping etc occurs on the cd due to the loudness issue and not the overall output of the cd player.
<snip>

There was an element of truth in this - in some cases.

Some amplifiers have an input sensitivity of around 150mV or so - and these could often be overloaded by the 2V output by a CD player.

The other benefit is that the attenuators would give an improved control range at low volume settings with some amplifiers (such as the one above with high input sensitivity).

But if using a passvive preamp or similar - a total waste of money.

[TonyRPH]

Chimune said:

Someone just sent me a link to this 13A fuse ...:
<snip>

£169 for this RF Router

which no doubt is a simple coupling capacitor (probably mains "X" rated) in a fancy looking box with a binding post at each end.

Priceless.

customer said:

Only last week I took delivery of your new AC-24 power supply and RF Router.

With the TT PSU, early impressions are of a more solid bass and improved detail across the whole soundstage. I expect this to improve further with time.

As for the RF Router, I can only say WOW!!! Having initially played the Stones Gimme Shelter to test the AC-24, I then connected the RF-Router between my Power Block with Ultra Sockets and external earth spike. From the opening bars of the same track, it revealed yet another layer of previously hidden information in the track. I was quite struck about two thirds of the way through to hear a piano accompaniment I’ve never heard before, and I’ve played this track hundreds of times. I’ve only ever heard it previously when seeing the band live in concert. Well, now I can hear it in the comfort of my own living room.

My emphasis.

If the customer is truly experiencing such a dramatic improvement, then there must be something seriously wrong with their system in the first place IMHO.

[TonyRPH]

qube_TA said:

TonyRPH said:

Yet more...

£237 buys you a pair or cylinders probably containing little more than a capacitor and resistor - possibly an inductor too.

But I'm betting they are nothing more than a low pass filter.

If they're removing the 'noise floor' then they're more likely to be high pass filters.

High pass means they would likely provide attentuation in the audio band, which you wouldn't want surely.

By "low pass" I meant that they will pass audio frequencies and attenuate above say 30kHz.

As for removing / improving the 'noise floor' - well I think we all know that's not really going to happen, unless they are used by someone living directly adjacent to a LW transmitter! (In which case you'll want a low pass filter).