HDMI cables - price/quality payoff?
Discussion
Yes on long runs.
It presents itself by noticeable 'sparkles' due to loss.
Remember also that all HDMI sources and displays are not equal, its an emerging standard and bandwidth requirements are different at every point release. So what might be fine now, may not be fine when HDMI 1.4 hits as the bandwidth requirement will increase.
Its one of the most widely perpetuated myths that digital works or it doesn't, it is quite simply not the case.
My outlook remains exactly as it did at the start of this thread.
Spending pence is madness, spending thousands is madness. Somewhere in between is about right.
It presents itself by noticeable 'sparkles' due to loss.
Remember also that all HDMI sources and displays are not equal, its an emerging standard and bandwidth requirements are different at every point release. So what might be fine now, may not be fine when HDMI 1.4 hits as the bandwidth requirement will increase.
Its one of the most widely perpetuated myths that digital works or it doesn't, it is quite simply not the case.
My outlook remains exactly as it did at the start of this thread.
Spending pence is madness, spending thousands is madness. Somewhere in between is about right.
Goochie said:
Plotloss said:
Goochie said:
Plotloss said:
:sigh:
Can you offer a good explanation as to why people should spend more than a few quid on an HDMI cable ?Digital signals do not simply work or dont work that is a massively over simplistic view, just as jitter occurs with digital audio interconnects which affects performance the same thing occurs on video, this is particularly acute with high bandwidth HDMI signals such as the latest 1.3a equipment.
The effect is significantly less noticeable on short cable runs than it is on longer ones but the effect is plain using cheap cables on long runs.
I'm sure you'll refute this but such is life.
Have you ever witnessed faults caused by a poor cable? If so, how do such problems present themselves on screen ?
People seem to equate a series of ones and noughts into black is black and white is white and thats the end of it and the rest is for 'snake oil' salesmen.
However if this was the case, then of course you would also have to argue that cables, no matter what length or construction carry signal in the same way over an infinite distance.
Also, if you have ever heard of the term 'error correction' with regard to digital gear, this of course wouldn't be needed.
The fact is, in media and also playback devices, they do not expect to receive a perfect signal from the source, because that needs hypothetically perfect materials. The 1's and 0's are sent in batches with further information in case some are missing allowing the device such as a TV or CD player, or digital amp to still play a good signal, even if it is imperfect rather than display a black screen or silence.
Thats why your CD will still play if it is scratched and you will still get a picture from your HDMI TV with a £1 cable.
However, the more imperfect the signal the more the 'error correction' needs to kick in. With audio, you get a loss in 'depth' in the sound for example.
However, with the case of HDMI it does seem that the connection is very tolerant, and cheaper cables fall within the acceptable tolerance unless you start running them over longer distances.
I bought a £30 HDMI cable which was a reputable make. Plugged it in and no matter what source I used, the TV would lose signal after a few minutes and would only come back if you removed the cable and plugged it back in.
I replaced it with a £10 no-name jobby from Tesco and it works perfectly.
Through my exhaustive testing, I can tell you that cheap HDMI cables are 100% better than more expensive ones.
You're welcome.
I replaced it with a £10 no-name jobby from Tesco and it works perfectly.
Through my exhaustive testing, I can tell you that cheap HDMI cables are 100% better than more expensive ones.
You're welcome.
LCOFC (linear crystallized oxygen free copper)silver plated copper cable is required costs lots used by them bods who play them big black disks which pick up background noise
Cat 5+ cable solid core cheep stuf send receves odels of stuf no problem termination is paramount though
Wet string can give you a electrick shock when flying a kite near power lines
Cat 5+ cable solid core cheep stuf send receves odels of stuf no problem termination is paramount though
Wet string can give you a electrick shock when flying a kite near power lines
trooperiziz said:
I bought a £30 HDMI cable which was a reputable make. Plugged it in and no matter what source I used, the TV would lose signal after a few minutes and would only come back if you removed the cable and plugged it back in.
I replaced it with a £10 no-name jobby from Tesco and it works perfectly.
Through my exhaustive testing, I can tell you that cheap HDMI cables are 100% better than more expensive ones.
You're welcome.
I agree, but disagree with the conclusion.I replaced it with a £10 no-name jobby from Tesco and it works perfectly.
Through my exhaustive testing, I can tell you that cheap HDMI cables are 100% better than more expensive ones.
You're welcome.
All it proves that with a poor connection your cable gives **** performance.
Also that the 'reputable brand' may not be any different than the 'own brand' cable in terms of quality.
Viper_Larry said:
Today arrived my QED Perfromance HDMI - the latest incarnation of the award winning cable @ £63.
Just ordered from here, cheaper at £40.99 - http://www.qed-cable-shop.co.uk/Video+Interconnect...Theres also a review too. From what I've read, I think it is a matter of the end picture / sound quality is dependant on the quality/strength of the signal travelling from one end to the other end. As people have stated, the longer the cable, the more room for interference and a weaker end signal so overall, there is a case for more expensive cables. Also, the quality of the conductive material - in most cases copper - will help maintain the original signal from source to the input.
There was a link to www.audioholics.com on a previous thread. The outcome of objective tests followed by subjective tests makes interesting reading.
ItsTony said:
Viper_Larry said:
Today arrived my QED Perfromance HDMI - the latest incarnation of the award winning cable @ £63.
Just ordered from here, cheaper at £40.99 - http://www.qed-cable-shop.co.uk/Video+Interconnect...Plotloss said:
Its one of the most widely perpetuated myths that digital works or it doesn't, it is quite simply not the case.
It's maddening, I can't understand why it carries on being perpetuated. Is it possible to have a CD that skips? Yes, so there is a digital device that is working, but not very well. Freeview or Sky picture breaking up? Another digital system succumbing to excessive bit error rate. How about your broadband connection, not getting the full speeds that the ISP claim? How could that be, it either works or it doesn't surely?Next thing we will have people claiming that signal degradation is down to purity of the copper...
It's maddening, I can't understand why it carries on being perpetuated. Is it possible to have a CD that skips? Yes, so there is a digital device that is working, but not very well. Freeview or Sky picture breaking up? Another digital system succumbing to excessive bit error rate. How about your broadband connection, not getting the full speeds that the ISP claim? How could that be, it either works or it doesn't surely?
Erm i think we are talking about point to point (physical) short distance on this topic?
In SKY we are talking something that is affected by weather and dish alignment.
Broadband we are talking transmission of (ever) higher bandwith over long(ish) distances on copper that was installed in the 60/70's LLUB is still the damp string on the end of a hi tech system !
I would concur with over 5m i would go for 'better' 'named' cable but wouldnt be seduced by £80 + HDMI
Toslinks are my fav to go into shops to get as I am a optical fibre/Satellite(not sky!) engineer and getting them to explain how a 1.5m toslink for £5 is not as good as a £40 one is funny ,sad but funny
Erm i think we are talking about point to point (physical) short distance on this topic?
In SKY we are talking something that is affected by weather and dish alignment.
Broadband we are talking transmission of (ever) higher bandwith over long(ish) distances on copper that was installed in the 60/70's LLUB is still the damp string on the end of a hi tech system !
I would concur with over 5m i would go for 'better' 'named' cable but wouldnt be seduced by £80 + HDMI
Toslinks are my fav to go into shops to get as I am a optical fibre/Satellite(not sky!) engineer and getting them to explain how a 1.5m toslink for £5 is not as good as a £40 one is funny ,sad but funny
old No 1 said:
Erm i think we are talking about point to point (physical) short distance on this topic?
No, we were talking about the widespread fallacy of "Because it's digital, it either works or it doesn't". It's just blatantly untrue, any digital system could suffer from errors that wouldn't necessarily stop it from working completely.It doesn't matter whether the transmission path is 36,000km of space and atmosphere, or 10 meters of cable; both can suffer from excessive bit errors that will degrade picture/sound quality whilst still broadly functioning.
Mr2Mike said:
old No 1 said:
Erm i think we are talking about point to point (physical) short distance on this topic?
No, we were talking about the widespread fallacy of "Because it's digital, it either works or it doesn't". It's just blatantly untrue, any digital system could suffer from errors that wouldn't necessarily stop it from working completely.It doesn't matter whether the transmission path is 36,000km of space and atmosphere, or 10 meters of cable; both can suffer from excessive bit errors that will degrade picture/sound quality whilst still broadly functioning.
MikeCR said:
topless_mx5 said:
As an aside, I have a HD AV component cable for my Xbox 360. How much better is a HDMI cable? Is it worth getting? Surely they are both HD, so the difference won't be massive?
I would also like to know this ^^thehawk said:
MikeCR said:
topless_mx5 said:
As an aside, I have a HD AV component cable for my Xbox 360. How much better is a HDMI cable? Is it worth getting? Surely they are both HD, so the difference won't be massive?
I would also like to know this ^^Cheers
MikeCR said:
thehawk said:
MikeCR said:
topless_mx5 said:
As an aside, I have a HD AV component cable for my Xbox 360. How much better is a HDMI cable? Is it worth getting? Surely they are both HD, so the difference won't be massive?
I would also like to know this ^^Cheers
Converting a signal from digital to analogue, losing part of it down a cable then converting it back to digital again is always going to be inferior under normal conditions.
Ahh, the great cable debate.
To all the "naysayers", who claim a wire is a wire, it's all 1's and 0's anyway, you're right. Speaker cable makes no difference whatsoever, either. Just use cat5e and bask in the glory of knowing you saved huge sums of money over muppets like me who has 120 quid a metre speaker cable, and no interconnect in the system (digi coax or analogue) that has an rrp under 100 quid.
Please keep being safe in your assumption that all consumrs such as myself simply belived the hype, and didn't do any back to back testing whatsoever, and if we did, it would just be the placebo effect. There is no such thing as digital signal corruption, or an error correction circuit. In fact, all CD or MP3 data is the same regardless, so as long as you have a dac, the transport is utterly, utterly irrelevent.
Enjoy your knowledge of these matters - the rest of us will "learn" some day.
To all the "naysayers", who claim a wire is a wire, it's all 1's and 0's anyway, you're right. Speaker cable makes no difference whatsoever, either. Just use cat5e and bask in the glory of knowing you saved huge sums of money over muppets like me who has 120 quid a metre speaker cable, and no interconnect in the system (digi coax or analogue) that has an rrp under 100 quid.
Please keep being safe in your assumption that all consumrs such as myself simply belived the hype, and didn't do any back to back testing whatsoever, and if we did, it would just be the placebo effect. There is no such thing as digital signal corruption, or an error correction circuit. In fact, all CD or MP3 data is the same regardless, so as long as you have a dac, the transport is utterly, utterly irrelevent.
Enjoy your knowledge of these matters - the rest of us will "learn" some day.
Graham E said:
Ahh, the great cable debate.
To all the "naysayers", who claim a wire is a wire, it's all 1's and 0's anyway, you're right. Speaker cable makes no difference whatsoever, either. Just use cat5e and bask in the glory of knowing you saved huge sums of money over muppets like me who has 120 quid a metre speaker cable, and no interconnect in the system (digi coax or analogue) that has an rrp under 100 quid.
Please keep being safe in your assumption that all consumrs such as myself simply belived the hype, and didn't do any back to back testing whatsoever, and if we did, it would just be the placebo effect. There is no such thing as digital signal corruption, or an error correction circuit. In fact, all CD or MP3 data is the same regardless, so as long as you have a dac, the transport is utterly, utterly irrelevent.
Enjoy your knowledge of these matters - the rest of us will "learn" some day.
Now't wrong with using a few runs of CAT5 to connect your speakers.To all the "naysayers", who claim a wire is a wire, it's all 1's and 0's anyway, you're right. Speaker cable makes no difference whatsoever, either. Just use cat5e and bask in the glory of knowing you saved huge sums of money over muppets like me who has 120 quid a metre speaker cable, and no interconnect in the system (digi coax or analogue) that has an rrp under 100 quid.
Please keep being safe in your assumption that all consumrs such as myself simply belived the hype, and didn't do any back to back testing whatsoever, and if we did, it would just be the placebo effect. There is no such thing as digital signal corruption, or an error correction circuit. In fact, all CD or MP3 data is the same regardless, so as long as you have a dac, the transport is utterly, utterly irrelevent.
Enjoy your knowledge of these matters - the rest of us will "learn" some day.
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