More 'Audiophile' bullsh*t
Discussion
custodian said:
BliarOut said:
If you think I'm sarcastic it's because I am.
It's a £465 kettle lead, in your tests a similar product made things worse. It can be replicated for £1.99 with ferrite rings from Maplins.
Ridicule of that product is a very valid contribution in this particular case...
No it isnt. Ive never heard that particular lead and I have no knowledge on how it might affect the sound in my system. I dont know how similar or different in construction the product is from a kettle lead or from some of the leads I have tested. If you had read the post before commenting, we might have apppreciated it more.It's a £465 kettle lead, in your tests a similar product made things worse. It can be replicated for £1.99 with ferrite rings from Maplins.
Ridicule of that product is a very valid contribution in this particular case...
I completely agree on cable dressing and rats nests, I've used a TDR and frequently seen induced interference in a data scenario. You can see cable joins and where cable runs too close to mains very easily with the right kit.
This kettle lead however, it's codswallop...
£465's worth of bum raping the terminally stupid.
BliarOut said:
In a blind test I bet you couldn't tell if it was fitted downstream of the PSU or not...
I completely agree on cable dressing and rats nests, I've used a TDR and frequently seen induced interference in a data scenario. You can see cable joins and where cable runs too close to mains very easily with the right kit.
This kettle lead however, it's codswallop...
£465's worth of bum raping the terminally stupid.
Personally i think you are incorrect..all cables affect the sound of a system from mains/interconnect to speaker...where people do talk rubbish is that they expect a cable to improve a system..it can never do that..what it can do is reduce the failings of a poor cable..no cable would be the ideal solution.I completely agree on cable dressing and rats nests, I've used a TDR and frequently seen induced interference in a data scenario. You can see cable joins and where cable runs too close to mains very easily with the right kit.
This kettle lead however, it's codswallop...
£465's worth of bum raping the terminally stupid.
kayc said:
Personally i think you are incorrect..all cables affect the sound of a system from mains/interconnect to speaker...where people do talk rubbish is that they expect a cable to improve a system..it can never do that..what it can do is reduce the failings of a poor cable..no cable would be the ideal solution.
So, what you're saying is, that if I remove the traditional mains cable from my amp, and hardwire it with 2 core + earth mains cable as is run in the wall from the distribution board, this is better than using a 'standard' mains cable?Obviously, no cable is impossible, unless the equipment is powered by batteries.
But this opens up a whole new can of worms, wrt to the internal impedance of batteries and the noise generated by them...
TonyRPH said:
So, what you're saying is, that if I remove the traditional mains cable from my amp, and hardwire it with 2 core + earth mains cable as is run in the wall from the distribution board, this is better than using a 'standard' mains cable?
Obviously, no cable is impossible, unless the equipment is powered by batteries.
But this opens up a whole new can of worms, wrt to the internal impedance of batteries and the noise generated by them...
What i am saying is all cables affect the sound..what those cables are made of will clearly make them sound different...ever heard Van den Hul cables?If you cant tell the difference between them and any of the Nordost range i would have to suggest hearing difficulties.And im not implying one is better than the other..just different.Obviously, no cable is impossible, unless the equipment is powered by batteries.
But this opens up a whole new can of worms, wrt to the internal impedance of batteries and the noise generated by them...
Edited by kayc on Friday 25th January 11:09
kayc said:
TonyRPH said:
So, what you're saying is, that if I remove the traditional mains cable from my amp, and hardwire it with 2 core + earth mains cable as is run in the wall from the distribution board, this is better than using a 'standard' mains cable?
Obviously, no cable is impossible, unless the equipment is powered by batteries.
But this opens up a whole new can of worms, wrt to the internal impedance of batteries and the noise generated by them...
What i am saying is all cables affect the sound..what those cables are made of will clearly make them sound different...ever heard Van den Hul cables?If you cant tell the difference between them and any of the Nordost range i would have to suggest hearing difficulties.And im not implying one is better than the other..just different.Obviously, no cable is impossible, unless the equipment is powered by batteries.
But this opens up a whole new can of worms, wrt to the internal impedance of batteries and the noise generated by them...
Edited by kayc on Friday 25th January 11:09
kayc said:
TonyRPH said:
So, what you're saying is, that if I remove the traditional mains cable from my amp, and hardwire it with 2 core + earth mains cable as is run in the wall from the distribution board, this is better than using a 'standard' mains cable?
Obviously, no cable is impossible, unless the equipment is powered by batteries.
But this opens up a whole new can of worms, wrt to the internal impedance of batteries and the noise generated by them...
What i am saying is all cables affect the sound..what those cables are made of will clearly make them sound different...ever heard Van den Hul cables?If you cant tell the difference between them and any of the Nordost range i would have to suggest hearing difficulties.And im not implying one is better than the other..just different.Obviously, no cable is impossible, unless the equipment is powered by batteries.
But this opens up a whole new can of worms, wrt to the internal impedance of batteries and the noise generated by them...
Edited by kayc on Friday 25th January 11:09
I was referring to the primary debate about mains cables, and the claims that they themselves can affect the sound.
I note that mains cables / filters etc. seem to be less popular with vision products.
Perhaps this is because we trust our eyes more than our ears?
Go back to the principle of the AC port of any equipment being bi-directional.
You must consider the cable attached to this port as being an open wire transmission line and as such it will transmit/receive and couple to and from. This is why physical separation and avoidance of rat's nests is important.
However, the properties of a transmission line are directly affected by physical size, shape and spacing.
I have never heard it but there may be a rationale behind certain cables. BUT to me that would indicate a problem elsewhere between the equipment in question for being susceptible in the first place. Therefore the likelyhood of any cable working better than any other is extremely equipment and physical placing dependant etc etc.
The hypothesis is extremely tenuous but that seems to be what a lot of snake oil products exploit.
I would rather search for the root problem that adopt a sticking plaster solution.
My supply is also a dedicated spur but L+N are made up as a twisted pair in 4mm with separate earth. Equipment AC cables are also similar twisted pair.
You must consider the cable attached to this port as being an open wire transmission line and as such it will transmit/receive and couple to and from. This is why physical separation and avoidance of rat's nests is important.
However, the properties of a transmission line are directly affected by physical size, shape and spacing.
I have never heard it but there may be a rationale behind certain cables. BUT to me that would indicate a problem elsewhere between the equipment in question for being susceptible in the first place. Therefore the likelyhood of any cable working better than any other is extremely equipment and physical placing dependant etc etc.
The hypothesis is extremely tenuous but that seems to be what a lot of snake oil products exploit.
I would rather search for the root problem that adopt a sticking plaster solution.
My supply is also a dedicated spur but L+N are made up as a twisted pair in 4mm with separate earth. Equipment AC cables are also similar twisted pair.
Edited by Le TVR on Friday 25th January 12:18
BliarOut said:
But will a £465 kettle lead improve the sound and if so, how?
In my opinion it can improve the sound if the item it replaces is of poor construction/materials etc..as i say all cables affect sound..the better the cable the less destructive it is...i have actually heard a Naim system with a certain mains cable being used that added so much bass to the sound that it was unbearable and a kettle lead was definately better.Edited by kayc on Friday 25th January 11:43
kayc said:
It my opinion it can improve the sound if the item it replaces is of poor construction/materials etc..as i say all cables affect sound..the better the cable the less destructive it is...i have actually heard a Naim system with a certain mains cable being used that added so much bass to the sound that it was unbearable and a kettle lead was definately better.
Dare I say it, but IMHO the Naim kit is poorly designed in the first place.After all, any amplifier that *only* works properly with their own branded speaker cable is a disaster waiting to happen IMHO.
All for the sake of eliminating a Zobel network on the output.
Of course it makes sense to sell kit that is designed to sound better with your own range of cables, doesn't it?
/cynic mode off.
kayc said:
BliarOut said:
But will a £465 kettle lead improve the sound and if so, how?
It my opinion it can improve the sound if the item it replaces is of poor construction/materials etc..as i say all cables affect sound..the better the cable the less destructive it is...i have actually heard a Naim system with a certain mains cable being used that added so much bass to the sound that it was unbearable and a kettle lead was definately better.The only thing I think has the possibility to affect the sound *might* be a UPS to clean up the supply, however a decent PSU should be doing that anyway.
Here's a tip that might improve your sound and best of all it's FREE
Tune an AM radio into 612AM and listen for the noise. Move anywhere near your broadband kit and plasma and listen, if you run your cables close enough to that you could well be introducing background noise.
If you doubt me, look into REIN.
But please, don't EVER buy a £465.00 kettle lead.
TonyRPH said:
Dare I say it, but IMHO the Naim kit is poorly designed in the first place.
After all, any amplifier that *only* works properly with their own branded speaker cable is a disaster waiting to happen IMHO.
All for the sake of eliminating a Zobel network on the output.
Of course it makes sense to sell kit that is designed to sound better with your own range of cables, doesn't it?
/cynic mode off.
I agree and moved away from Naim many years ago partly on the ridiculous cable bullsAfter all, any amplifier that *only* works properly with their own branded speaker cable is a disaster waiting to happen IMHO.
All for the sake of eliminating a Zobel network on the output.
Of course it makes sense to sell kit that is designed to sound better with your own range of cables, doesn't it?
/cynic mode off.
t..as Naca5 speaker cable they insist on is possibly the worst ive ever heard(even though some on here say all speaker cables sound the same)!BliarOut said:
<snip>
The only thing I think has the possibility to affect the sound *might* be a UPS to clean up the supply, however a decent PSU should be doing that anyway.
<snip>
I recently read a review of a mains regenerator.The only thing I think has the possibility to affect the sound *might* be a UPS to clean up the supply, however a decent PSU should be doing that anyway.
<snip>
The review was going well, until the reviewer stated that he tried a 'boutique' mains cable between the regenerator and the amp under test.
Suddenly the sound improved even more apparently.
If the mains generator was that good in the first place, why should an additional cable improve the sound I wonder?
It simply has to be a placebo effect.
I do note that many of these reviewers refuse to participate in blind tests - I guess they simply don't trust their ears, without seeing what's happening too.
TonyRPH said:
BliarOut said:
<snip>
The only thing I think has the possibility to affect the sound *might* be a UPS to clean up the supply, however a decent PSU should be doing that anyway.
<snip>
I recently read a review of a mains regenerator.The only thing I think has the possibility to affect the sound *might* be a UPS to clean up the supply, however a decent PSU should be doing that anyway.
<snip>
The review was going well, until the reviewer stated that he tried a 'boutique' mains cable between the regenerator and the amp under test.
Suddenly the sound improved even more apparently.
If the mains generator was that good in the first place, why should an additional cable improve the sound I wonder?
It simply has to be a placebo effect.
I do note that many of these reviewers refuse to participate in blind tests - I guess they simply don't trust their ears, without seeing what's happening too.
Gassing Station | Home Cinema & Hi-Fi | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff