Harry's Garage - YouTube

[trickywoo]

External tyre noise in the intro was a great illustration of why electric cars cannot be considered silent or really even any quieter than ICE.

Maybe some benefit in an acceleration zone away from a junction but even then most noise will come from ICE large goods type vehicles which aren't going electric any time soon, if at all.

[Chasing Potatoes]

DonkeyApple said:

True. It'll be very old and dull tech by then. Would need to be rebranded under the nostalgia or ironic mechanisms like early digital cameras.

Finally getting the self driving download might revitalise values of any that haven't fallen apart.

Maybe another negative is that unlike other cars built today these might be able to be updated to run future rules and regs that are due to become mandatory? Non compliance tends to be one of the appeals of older cars.

I also think PH as a whole has a tendency to over-estimate what your average car buyer is after - hence cars like the Qashqai being the biggest seller. I walk my dog daily and very few houses have anything special or 'a driver's car' parked up outside. It's generally 4-pot bangers of one sort of the other.

Hell you only have to look within PH to see lots of extremely nice metal owned which is very very rarely used as intended. Another example being Ferrari and the like in central London. Not being bought because of their ability on the open road there.

[p1stonhead]

Chasing Potatoes said:

I also think PH as a whole has a tendency to over-estimate what your average car buyer is after - hence cars like the Qashqai being the biggest seller. I walk my dog daily and very few houses have anything special or 'a driver's car' parked up outside. It's generally 4-pot bangers of one sort of the other.

Hell you only have to look within PH to see lots of extremely nice metal owned which is very very rarely used as intended. Another example being Ferrari and the like in central London. Not being bought because of their ability on the open road there.

It’s probably like 99% who just want ‘car’ to get them to ‘place’.

I don’t think that’s an exaggeration. No one I know is into cars at all. It’s a device that does a job and nothing more. Which in fairness 99% of driving tends to be for even the 1%.

[Castrol for a knave]

p1stonhead said:

Chasing Potatoes said:

I also think PH as a whole has a tendency to over-estimate what your average car buyer is after - hence cars like the Qashqai being the biggest seller. I walk my dog daily and very few houses have anything special or 'a driver's car' parked up outside. It's generally 4-pot bangers of one sort of the other.

Hell you only have to look within PH to see lots of extremely nice metal owned which is very very rarely used as intended. Another example being Ferrari and the like in central London. Not being bought because of their ability on the open road there.

It’s probably like 99% who just want ‘car’ to get them to ‘place’.

I don’t think that’s an exaggeration. No one I know is into cars at all. It’s a device that does a job and nothing more. Which in fairness 99% of driving tends to be for even the 1%.

I agree - a few of my mates are into cars, but most just see them as white goods.

I have a few mates who are rapturous about a new 60 squillion inch SHDUHD smart TV with hyper processed Dolby Diginoodle surround sound. Mine is a black one.

Horses for courses.

[cerb4.5lee]

p1stonhead said:

Chasing Potatoes said:

I also think PH as a whole has a tendency to over-estimate what your average car buyer is after - hence cars like the Qashqai being the biggest seller. I walk my dog daily and very few houses have anything special or 'a driver's car' parked up outside. It's generally 4-pot bangers of one sort of the other.

Hell you only have to look within PH to see lots of extremely nice metal owned which is very very rarely used as intended. Another example being Ferrari and the like in central London. Not being bought because of their ability on the open road there.

It’s probably like 99% who just want ‘car’ to get them to ‘place’.

I don’t think that’s an exaggeration. No one I know is into cars at all. It’s a device that does a job and nothing more. Which in fairness 99% of driving tends to be for even the 1%.

Agree, and apart from our PH bubble, the majority of folk aren't into cars at all. I'm currently sat in a car park, and I can't even see one interesting car wherever I look for example.

[WestyCarl]

Chasing Potatoes said:

DonkeyApple said:

True. It'll be very old and dull tech by then. Would need to be rebranded under the nostalgia or ironic mechanisms like early digital cameras.

Finally getting the self driving download might revitalise values of any that haven't fallen apart.

Maybe another negative is that unlike other cars built today these might be able to be updated to run future rules and regs that are due to become mandatory? Non compliance tends to be one of the appeals of older cars.

I also think PH as a whole has a tendency to over-estimate what your average car buyer is after - hence cars like the Qashqai being the biggest seller. I walk my dog daily and very few houses have anything special or 'a driver's car' parked up outside. It's generally 4-pot bangers of one sort of the other.

Even if you want something "special" what choices do you have these days that will also serve a family? You either have to go hot hatch or spend alot of money.

[Shiv_P]

WestyCarl said:

Chasing Potatoes said:

DonkeyApple said:

True. It'll be very old and dull tech by then. Would need to be rebranded under the nostalgia or ironic mechanisms like early digital cameras.

Finally getting the self driving download might revitalise values of any that haven't fallen apart.

Maybe another negative is that unlike other cars built today these might be able to be updated to run future rules and regs that are due to become mandatory? Non compliance tends to be one of the appeals of older cars.

I also think PH as a whole has a tendency to over-estimate what your average car buyer is after - hence cars like the Qashqai being the biggest seller. I walk my dog daily and very few houses have anything special or 'a driver's car' parked up outside. It's generally 4-pot bangers of one sort of the other.

Even if you want something "special" what choices do you have these days that will also serve a family? You either have to go hot hatch or spend alot of money.

Used BMW M3, S4, C43 (estate), Lexus ISF, GSF, M5, lots and lots of options sub 25-30k.........

[smithyithy]

otolith said:

The kids have all had years of watching YouTube videos of Teslas pasting supercars on the drag strip. Suspect that will have some residual effect.

Pretty much. You could try to explain the joys of internal combustion and the mechanics and connection to what we would consider enthusiast cars, but most won't care, because a Tesla (or equivalent EV) is straight-line fast (the only performance metric actually relevant to them) and is more like another piece of tech than a piece of machinery.

Same reason you'd struggle to convince them of the virtues of a quality mechanical watch, then they'd just buy an Apple Watch instead.

Thing is, they're not inherently 'wrong' in those views. I don't agree with them, but I can't really argue with them

I'm 'only' 33 but even I feel old trying to convey how much me and others still like old ICE cars, mechanical watches, record players etc. There's no real interest in the analogue among the young generation. Of the many lads in their 20's I know or work / have worked with, there's probably only a couple really appreciate the 'older' stuff, the rest just aren't bothered and would just opt for the Tesla / iWatch..

[RicksAlfas]

If Tesla insist on putting the indicator control on the steering wheel, wouldn't it make more sense to have the left button on the left and the right button on the right?

[RichB]

otolith said:

The kids have all had years of watching YouTube videos of Teslas pasting supercars on the drag strip. Suspect that will have some residual effect.

One trick pony though...

[Leithen]

smithyithy said:

Pretty much. You could try to explain the joys of internal combustion and the mechanics and connection to what we would consider enthusiast cars, but most won't care, because a Tesla (or equivalent EV) is straight-line fast (the only performance metric actually relevant to them) and is more like another piece of tech than a piece of machinery.

Same reason you'd struggle to convince them of the virtues of a quality mechanical watch, then they'd just buy an Apple Watch instead.

Thing is, they're not inherently 'wrong' in those views. I don't agree with them, but I can't really argue with them

I'm 'only' 33 but even I feel old trying to convey how much me and others still like old ICE cars, mechanical watches, record players etc. There's no real interest in the analogue among the young generation. Of the many lads in their 20's I know or work / have worked with, there's probably only a couple really appreciate the 'older' stuff, the rest just aren't bothered and would just opt for the Tesla / iWatch..

I'm not sure the Apple/Samsung etc Watch comparison works. Mechanical watches generally do one thing, whereas the latest mini computers on your wrist bring a slew of extra things to the party - health monitor, GPS, Notifications, etc etc.

Tesla, or EV's haven't brought anything extra, they just do the same as IC cars in a different way. Perhaps home refuelling is an extra, and what Harry didn't really touch on, the much better in-car computer screen experience in terms of responsiveness etc. But that's just doing something that already exists better. Which is what continues to mark Tesla out - they are more efficient and focused on being an EV.

The seats are rubbish in my experience, which considering it's from the US, home of armchairs on wheels, is slightly frustrating.

[Shiv_P]

RicksAlfas said:

If Tesla insist on putting the indicator control on the steering wheel, wouldn't it make more sense to have the left button on the left and the right button on the right?

No, because that's an extra button, which adds cost

[ChocolateFrog]

I didn't realise Tesla no longer sold a performance version of the 3.

So it's more expensive, slower (in both versions) and less practicalthan my MG, which also comes with a nob to select direction.

It's more efficient but that's about it. I can see why they're feeling the pinch from the Chinese.

[RicksAlfas]

Shiv_P said:

RicksAlfas said:

If Tesla insist on putting the indicator control on the steering wheel, wouldn't it make more sense to have the left button on the left and the right button on the right?

No, because that's an extra button, which adds cost

Isn't it two buttons already, but both on the same side?

[anonymous-user]

ChocolateFrog said:

also comes with a nob to select direction.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

[bolidemichael]

Wrt kids liking tesla -- my two think that they're cool, despite my exposing them to an enthusiasts' view of cars and bikes -- which they also like.

[anonymous-user]

ChocolateFrog said:

I didn't realise Tesla no longer sold a performance version of the 3
...

That is literally about to change in the next day or so. All the big content creators were on a launch day a few weeks ago for the new Model 3 performance. It has circa 600bhp. Apparently they are already been produced in volume at their Shanghai factory. Global announcement should be very soon.

[ChocolateFrog]

Chasing Potatoes said:

cerb4.5lee said:

whereas when I think of an EV, I immediately associate them with dullness rightly or wrongly.

I don't think you've mentioned that before.

Exactly what I want in a daily 99.9% of the time.

Character = faff. Fine for something that comes out of the garage once a week but what I want in a daily is a warm car at 0300am that I don't have to baby until the fluids are warm, that connects to my favourite podcast and does it all with the minimum of fuss while getting a move on for a few pence a mile.

There's literally no better option than an EV for me and those who think I'm less of an enthusiast because of it make me laugh.

[ChocolateFrog]

Model Y was almost exactly twice the price and for that I'd get a supercharger network I'd never use and running costs down from 3p to under 2.

Just not worth it.

It'll be interesting to watch the market develop.

[ChocolateFrog]

Forester1965 said:

ChocolateFrog said:

also comes with a nob to select direction.

Don't be so hard on yourself.

Entirely valid.