Masters Of The Air - Apple TV
Discussion
If you get past the lazy American insults towards the British it's very much bringing to the fore the sacrifices made.
A few incidents in Ep3 made me wince just for the sheer carnage. Example where the guy who had bailed out smashed into the wing of another Fort. The upper turret jam. The attempt to land in the field which didn't work out.
One stat not mentioned in the thread was that on one raid they lost 150 men.
Whole of Easy Company (BoB) was 150 strong. Puts it in perspective.
Hopefully we won't get the barman from Cheers rabbiting on about Monty or Arthur Harris.
A few incidents in Ep3 made me wince just for the sheer carnage. Example where the guy who had bailed out smashed into the wing of another Fort. The upper turret jam. The attempt to land in the field which didn't work out.
One stat not mentioned in the thread was that on one raid they lost 150 men.
Whole of Easy Company (BoB) was 150 strong. Puts it in perspective.
Hopefully we won't get the barman from Cheers rabbiting on about Monty or Arthur Harris.
Greshamst said:
It’s ok so far. No band of brothers but it’s a good watch.
I know this is the tale of the US airforce’s involvement, not the British, but it does somewhat bruise the ego to so far overlook all the British escapades and sacrifice. Reduced to a losing bar fight and unlikeable characters.
Plus saying the US was doing precision bombing in the war (except hiroshima and Nagasaki obv) and the Brits were just carpet bombing everywhere in the dark randomly. I know this is the tale of the US airforce’s involvement, not the British, but it does somewhat bruise the ego to so far overlook all the British escapades and sacrifice. Reduced to a losing bar fight and unlikeable characters.
I’m enjoying it despite some dodgy cgi and American bias.
Certainly not up to band of brothers or the pacific but it’s still worth watching.
Smollet said:
the-norseman said:
Thanks guys will check them both out.
Tbh don't watch them until MoftA has run its course. They are poles apart in quality. I’m still enjoying it though.
Episode 3.
The aerial shots make it much more of a better watch and it illustrates carnage a lot better
It’s still a 6.5/10 for me.
Watchable as I like war stuff. But it’s still far too rootin tootin yippee Kay yay gos bless America for me
I know it’s American based obviously. But I don’t think it has to be so Hollywooded up.
The aerial shots make it much more of a better watch and it illustrates carnage a lot better
It’s still a 6.5/10 for me.
Watchable as I like war stuff. But it’s still far too rootin tootin yippee Kay yay gos bless America for me
I know it’s American based obviously. But I don’t think it has to be so Hollywooded up.
u-boat said:
Plus saying the US was doing precision bombing in the war (except hiroshima and Nagasaki obv) and the Brits were just carpet bombing everywhere in the dark randomly.
I’m enjoying it despite some dodgy cgi and American bias.
Certainly not up to band of brothers or the pacific but it’s still worth watching.
The yanks certainly weren’t fussed about accuracy when they firebombed Tokyo ..I’m enjoying it despite some dodgy cgi and American bias.
Certainly not up to band of brothers or the pacific but it’s still worth watching.
pokethepope said:
Are there any statistics or reports anyone can share on the friendly fire that occurred? With the combination of so many bombers in tight formations, so many attacking fighter aircraft, and so many defensive machine guns, exacerbated by fear and panic.. were a lot of bombers actually shot down by their own side?
I've not heard much about actual "friendly fire" shooting downs. The bombers flew in a fixed "box" set of formations which were supposed to form mutual cover and at the same time minimise the chances of shooting each other.Getting hit by bombs from bombers flying at higher positions in the box was more of a risk, I think.
This picture shows one such incident. I don't think anyone got out of the striken bomber. And every time one of these went down, it took 11 guys with it -
Edited by Eric Mc on Sunday 4th February 12:39
and31 said:
u-boat said:
Plus saying the US was doing precision bombing in the war (except hiroshima and Nagasaki obv) and the Brits were just carpet bombing everywhere in the dark randomly.
I’m enjoying it despite some dodgy cgi and American bias.
Certainly not up to band of brothers or the pacific but it’s still worth watching.
The yanks certainly weren’t fussed about accuracy when they firebombed Tokyo ..I’m enjoying it despite some dodgy cgi and American bias.
Certainly not up to band of brothers or the pacific but it’s still worth watching.
European weather
the rather ambitious claims for the accuracy of the Norden Bomb-Sight.
By 1944 they were far less rigourous in their assumptions of pin-point accuracy.
FiF said:
If you get past the lazy American insults towards the British it's very much bringing to the fore the sacrifices made.
A few incidents in Ep3 made me wince just for the sheer carnage. Example where the guy who had bailed out smashed into the wing of another Fort. The upper turret jam. The attempt to land in the field which didn't work out.
One stat not mentioned in the thread was that on one raid they lost 150 men.
Whole of Easy Company (BoB) was 150 strong. Puts it in perspective.
Hopefully we won't get the barman from Cheers rabbiting on about Monty or Arthur Harris.
The attrition rate qas horrendous. The US was almost delusional about the efficacy of daytime bombing and the Norden sight..A few incidents in Ep3 made me wince just for the sheer carnage. Example where the guy who had bailed out smashed into the wing of another Fort. The upper turret jam. The attempt to land in the field which didn't work out.
One stat not mentioned in the thread was that on one raid they lost 150 men.
Whole of Easy Company (BoB) was 150 strong. Puts it in perspective.
Hopefully we won't get the barman from Cheers rabbiting on about Monty or Arthur Harris.
In Operation Tidal Wave, the low level bombing of the Ploiești refineries in 1943, they lost 320 men 200 captured and 53 aircraft, about 40% of the total.
The weary point the RAF lads were making in ep2, after 4 years of war, was lost on them.
and31 said:
u-boat said:
Plus saying the US was doing precision bombing in the war (except hiroshima and Nagasaki obv) and the Brits were just carpet bombing everywhere in the dark randomly.
I’m enjoying it despite some dodgy cgi and American bias.
Certainly not up to band of brothers or the pacific but it’s still worth watching.
The yanks certainly weren’t fussed about accuracy when they firebombed Tokyo ..I’m enjoying it despite some dodgy cgi and American bias.
Certainly not up to band of brothers or the pacific but it’s still worth watching.
I do think that in examining major events in history and controversial decisions then hindsight needs to be avoided. Look at it from the position of the situation at the time, the pressures and what they knew and didn't know.
u-boat said:
Plus saying the US was doing precision bombing in the war (except hiroshima and Nagasaki obv) and the Brits were just carpet bombing everywhere in the dark randomly.
I’m enjoying it despite some dodgy cgi and American bias.
Even flying in daylight "precision" bombing is stretching it as by 1943 only 16% of bombs fell within 1,000 feet of the aiming point. I’m enjoying it despite some dodgy cgi and American bias.
Bomber Command meanwhile introduced many measures to try and improve accuracy of its night bombing, such as Oboe, pathfinding aircraft who marked the target with flares, and bomber wings coming in from different directions over the central target.
In time more of the American effort was directed toward city bombing, though it might be called "hitting the rail marshalling yards".......in the centre of a city.
Towards late war I don't think the target priorities were all that different between Bomber Command and 8th air force, varying by a degree but not representing wholly different targets.
and31 said:
Eric Mc said:
Ironically, the RAF got much better at accurate bombing as they refined their techniques and tactics - use of Pathfinders, H2S bombing radar, use of Mosquitoes etc.
Dropping two Tallboy bombs onto Tirpitz was pretty accurate
It illustrates my point though. It was 1945, the Lancasters were operating in daylight, they had improved naviagation aids and bomb sights, they were unopposed, the ship wasn't moving etc etc.
Eric Mc said:
Tallboys were actually designed to miss their targets - which most of them did although in the case of the Tirpitz raid they did manage a direct hit with at least one of them.
It illustrates my point though. It was 1945, the Lancasters were operating in daylight, they had improved naviagation aids and bomb sights, they were unopposed, the ship wasn't moving etc etc.
The Dams were pretty high precision…It illustrates my point though. It was 1945, the Lancasters were operating in daylight, they had improved naviagation aids and bomb sights, they were unopposed, the ship wasn't moving etc etc.
..and of course the RAF mastered daylight precision bombing as well with the low level Mosquito raids - they even skimmed a bomb through the front door of the first Gestapo headquarters they raided in Denmark...
I’ve watched 3 episodes and I’ve mainly got over my CGI issues and am enjoying it. I do think the lazy negative tropes about the RAF (and seemingly the British) are poor and inappropriate in tone though ( and they are colouring my enjoyment).
ettore said:
Eric Mc said:
Tallboys were actually designed to miss their targets - which most of them did although in the case of the Tirpitz raid they did manage a direct hit with at least one of them.
It illustrates my point though. It was 1945, the Lancasters were operating in daylight, they had improved naviagation aids and bomb sights, they were unopposed, the ship wasn't moving etc etc.
The Dams were pretty high precision…It illustrates my point though. It was 1945, the Lancasters were operating in daylight, they had improved naviagation aids and bomb sights, they were unopposed, the ship wasn't moving etc etc.
..and of course the RAF mastered daylight precision bombing as well with the low level Mosquito raids - they even skimmed a bomb through the front door of the first Gestapo headquarters they raided in Denmark...
I’ve watched 3 episodes and I’ve mainly got over my CGI issues and am enjoying it. I do think the lazy negative tropes about the RAF (and seemingly the British) are poor and inappropriate in tone though ( and they are colouring my enjoyment).
Various "precison" raids were attempted on and off throughout the war. They were too costly and ineffecive on too many occasions for them to be "normal". That is one of the reasons why Arthur Harris oppoosed them so often as he felt they were a waste of his resources (men and machinery) for what he consiered low level of effectiveness.
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