Discussion
looking at the bigger picture, and this is just an example of what is happening on hundreds of such estates around the country, we are all the result of our upbringing and our surroundings. What we are seeing is the result of fifty years of wet liberal attitudes, and the fact that the welfare system is actually the cause of the problems, not the answer to them. Many parts of our society are totally broken, and I don't see any politician of any persuasion having the balls to actually do what is needed. So many of these problems are due to the ready supply of drugs on our streets.
The answer; Start by hanging the drug dealers, proper discipline in the schools, national service, and much stronger powers for the courts to remove people like the girl shoplifter, so she wouldn't be back on the streets within hours. People like her should be locked up for years, not hours.
I'm now going to bed, and putting my hard hat on!
The answer; Start by hanging the drug dealers, proper discipline in the schools, national service, and much stronger powers for the courts to remove people like the girl shoplifter, so she wouldn't be back on the streets within hours. People like her should be locked up for years, not hours.
I'm now going to bed, and putting my hard hat on!
I totally agree! But, as you hinted toward, it'll never happen as no one will ever step up to the front and do what is needed to be done. We are a nanny and namby pamby state and tbh the future for those communities is only downhill.
A solution was found for the Grimsby Yarborough estate - they knocked it down, except they had to move the scum somewhere else so chucked them into the nunny and west marsh to bring their recovering statuses down again.
A solution was found for the Grimsby Yarborough estate - they knocked it down, except they had to move the scum somewhere else so chucked them into the nunny and west marsh to bring their recovering statuses down again.
kingstondc5 said:
Twincam16 said:
said lots of good stuff.
Trouble is, would the 'good' people of S
horpe really want to go back to working for potentially minimum wage should a factory re-open in the area or would, like other areas, see factory work as something beneath them and therefore the East Europeans do it instead?If we want to make this country 'rich' again, we need to be like the Chinese/emerging Far Eastern markets and have slave labour/sweat shops
First-world countries like our own rely on quality and innovation - something which, as Germany has repeatedly shown, you only get if you prioritise R&D (which includes staff training) over making a fast buck.
People go to places with sweatshops to get mass-produced low-quality goods, and accept the dips in quality so long as the price is right. An economy like ours couldn't afford to sell such goods so cheaply or badly made. People need education and manufacturing needs R&D. Unfortunately in this country we see 'education' as a purely academic thing, and anyone to whom it isn't suited is deemed to have 'failed'.
BryanUsrey said:
kingstondc5 said:
If we want to make this country 'rich' again, we need to be like the Chinese/emerging Far Eastern markets and have slave labour/sweat shops
No ethical issues at all with that. I have a lot of respect for people that do the crap jobs in this world, they need to be done, and the people that do them and live a contented (that may not be the right word, but you get what I mean) life deserve respect. The scum featured in this program should be removed from society, they do not contribute anything useful to it, but readily drain the resources in it that others provide.
Edited by Megaflow on Wednesday 15th May 12:21
At first I admit I felt angry watching these people leach of the system, treat their elders without respect and generally dick around without regard for society; however, after a short while I couldn't help but feel sorry for the young lad who knew no better and was most likely trapped (as many of his mates were).
The older guy with all the kids gave me the impression of surrender. He seemed like many to have simply given up applying for jobs he deems beneath him and having 'contributed' for years thinks it's his time to receive.
As for the junkie, well there's another thread entirely.
The older guy with all the kids gave me the impression of surrender. He seemed like many to have simply given up applying for jobs he deems beneath him and having 'contributed' for years thinks it's his time to receive.
As for the junkie, well there's another thread entirely.
B.J.W said:
And 2 years compulsory National Service (with a trade qualification attached) for the unsuitables - they are taken off the streets for a defined period and, with a bit of luck, learn some discipline and life skills in that period, as well as a trade which will set them up for when they are discharged. Just a thought....
Have you ever served in the forces, maybe in the last 20 years? Certain parts of the military, especially the Army, are built around recruiting scrotes with nothing better to do. Certain services train it out of them or beast them until they quit, while others let them carry on as normal. Besides the Army is being shrunk while the TA is going to grow and be called upon more and more in the future.vxr8mate said:
At first I admit I felt angry watching these people leach of the system, treat their elders without respect and generally dick around without regard for society; however, after a short while I couldn't help but feel sorry for the young lad who knew no better and was most likely trapped (as many of his mates were).
He knew no better? Perhaps if he actually went to school instead of doing whatever the hell he likes he might know better. I have absolutely no sympathy for him. In fact it would no doubt save a lot of tax money if we just euthanised him, and his little mates, now. George29 said:
vxr8mate said:
At first I admit I felt angry watching these people leach of the system, treat their elders without respect and generally dick around without regard for society; however, after a short while I couldn't help but feel sorry for the young lad who knew no better and was most likely trapped (as many of his mates were).
He knew no better? Perhaps if he actually went to school instead of doing whatever the hell he likes he might know better. I have absolutely no sympathy for him. In fact it would no doubt save a lot of tax money if we just euthanised him, and his little mates, now. Twincam16 said:
A successful engineering consultant with an Aston Martin DB9 calling for the deaths of teenagers. Lovely.
He's never going to contribute anything to society, rather the opposite in fact, he will just be a drain on society for the rest of his life, hence my comment. It would be a damn sight cheaper than paying for him to go to jail every few months that will inevitably happen. My house mate told me about theis. Knowing it would anger me to watch it. Not got round to it yet though.
We really need a system for dealing with the vagrants.
I would propose, limited benifits for the older ones, on a charge card basis which only enables them to buy essentials (no alcohol or fags). For younger ones those not in education or work by 18 and have claimed benifits for more than 6 months. Would be put on a two year residental camp where they learn one of six trades that the country is short of at the time. As well as learing some life skills/morals. Almost like national service, but to enable them to be prepared for work.
Almost like, we gave you the oppertunity to learn at school and embark in work/education on your own. You didnt take it. So now were just going to make you do it.
People would soon take the easy/flexable option.
We really need a system for dealing with the vagrants.
I would propose, limited benifits for the older ones, on a charge card basis which only enables them to buy essentials (no alcohol or fags). For younger ones those not in education or work by 18 and have claimed benifits for more than 6 months. Would be put on a two year residental camp where they learn one of six trades that the country is short of at the time. As well as learing some life skills/morals. Almost like national service, but to enable them to be prepared for work.
Almost like, we gave you the oppertunity to learn at school and embark in work/education on your own. You didnt take it. So now were just going to make you do it.
People would soon take the easy/flexable option.
George29 said:
Twincam16 said:
A successful engineering consultant with an Aston Martin DB9 calling for the deaths of teenagers. Lovely.
He's never going to contribute anything to society, rather the opposite in fact, he will just be a drain on society for the rest of his life, hence my comment. It would be a damn sight cheaper than paying for him to go to jail every few months that will inevitably happen. Twincam16 said:
You would've joined the SS, wouldn't you?
How massively irrelevant.Please tell me what you would do then to sort out a problem like that little s
t? Let him do what he likes whilst draining money paid for by hard working people? Drain yet more tax payer's money on sending him to prison, which has already been done with no effect. People like him are utter scum, they do what they like and don't care how it affects the lives of others, and also do absolutely nothing to change it, whilst blaming everyone else for their own problems. GALLARDOGUY said:
Here we go...
Seriously though - can no-one see that it's the environment these people live in and the lack of opportunities presented to them on a daily basis that's at fault?George29 has entered this discussion as a seriously wealthy professional who has decided that someone who is for whatever reason disadvantaged, less intelligent and less skilled than him is unworthy of life.
I read some pretty strong opinions on this site, but that's in another league of nastiness, frankly.
Whenever the subject of tax avoidance comes up, the sentiment of 'don't hate the player, hate the game' comes up, and anyone who is sensible talks of changing the system within which it all operates to make things fairer.
What's the difference here? These people are products of a different type of 'system'. A different 'game'. Only for some reason if they're poor, badly-educated, on the fringes of criminality and spending our taxpayer's money as opposed to preventing it from entering the system in the first place, all of a sudden we're now supposed to hate the players rather than the game?
Godwin's Law may be void in this situation. Fascism revolves around hating the players rather than the game, of pushing all society's ills on individuals who are then demonised to the point of subhumanity, rather than taking an intelligent step back and looking at the flaws in the system that have placed them there.
I really do worry about the social knife-edge the country seems to be on at times.
Twincam16 said:
Seriously though - can no-one see that it's the environment these people live in and the lack of opportunities presented to them on a daily basis that's at fault?
George29 has entered this discussion as a seriously wealthy professional who has decided that someone who is for whatever reason disadvantaged, less intelligent and less skilled than him is unworthy of life.
I read some pretty strong opinions on this site, but that's in another league of nastiness, frankly.
Stop blaming it on the lack of oppertunities. If he had any sense about him he would move to where oppertunities are. But no, he decides to do fGeorge29 has entered this discussion as a seriously wealthy professional who has decided that someone who is for whatever reason disadvantaged, less intelligent and less skilled than him is unworthy of life.
I read some pretty strong opinions on this site, but that's in another league of nastiness, frankly.
k all, and blame everyone else. I know how he can start creating an oppertunity. Start going to school and stop spending all day standing around on the streets with your mates comminting crimes. Also, I am in no way seriously wealthy. I've earnt a bit of money yes, but only through hard work, and all done by myself.
George29 said:
Twincam16 said:
You would've joined the SS, wouldn't you?
How massively irrelevant.Please tell me what you would do then to sort out a problem like that little s
t? Let him do what he likes whilst draining money paid for by hard working people? Drain yet more tax payer's money on sending him to prison, which has already been done with no effect. People like him are utter scum, they do what they like and don't care how it affects the lives of others, and also do absolutely nothing to change it, whilst blaming everyone else for their own problems. Firstly, my idea of the benefits you get being proportional to the time you have worked. This necessitates finding work, as in every case there will be a set date the benefits run out on, and claimants will have to find a job within this time. If they're still unemployed beyond that time, I'd advocate legally-binding 'education orders' - essentially community service with overtones of training. In order to get a basic level of benefits, you have to do an on-the-job training course in a skill area directed by the government. In return you get a basic level of benefits and work experience, and the rest of us get someone in work.
Secondly, the education system needs broadening considerably. At the moment it only really benefits academic kids, and university seems to be the only goal it points to. If we had vocational GCSEs alongside the academic ones, complete with practical exams, and an assurance that any school leaver who wasn't going to go to university would go into an apprenticeship of some kind, then no-one would feel truly 'useless'. Even if there wasn't a job at the end of it, people would emerge with a work ethic and work skills by the time they were 21.
Thirdly, places like S
horpe need reasons to exist. As I said, they're facing a situation where anyone with any get-up-and-go has got up and gone. The people who got on their bikes to look for work couldn't find any in Shorpe. You're now dealing with the people who were left behind. With this in mind, I'd propose two things:-Firstly, separate London economically from the rest of the UK. Bring in a two-speed version of Sterling (could even expand the remit of the Clydesdale bank, come to think of it), so that the London Pound is set at an exchange rate that benefits the banking sector, and the English Pound is set at an exchange rate that suits mass-employing industry.
-Secondly, Offer tax incentives for businesses to set up shop in areas like S
horpe and run huge apprenticeship schemes with local schools (you want proof of this working? Nissan in Sunderland, Toyota in Burnaston and Honda in Swindon. The Japanese can see the potential of British manufacturing, why can't the British?).So, with all that in mind, said kid wouldn't be able to avoid the opportunities for stability and self-improvement presented to him throughout his early life. He'd grow up in a household where people had jobs and went to work every morning, at school his abilities would be assessed and he'd be placed on courses that focused on developing those abilities rather than trying to force him down a route he wasn't suited to and kicks back against because it makes him feel so worthless he can't see the point in it, and by the time he left he'd know what he was good at and which employers would take him on. The money he earned would go further, the cost of living would make a decent life possible without having to resort to crime, and the stability would be such that he could think about having a family and buying a house without doing a runner.
So, either that, or what you suggest, which is a judge, jury and executioner of one (you) deeming him no longer worthy of life based entirely on economic worth, and killing him.
Which method would you propose to use? You'd have to do it yourself, of course, as employing an executioner would cost a bit of your precious money in salary, so you've got to be OK with the idea of taking another human life.
Given the importance you place on minimising cost to taxpayers, I think you're going to have to slit his throat with a kitchen knife. After all, guns, bullets, gas chambers, gallows and electric chairs are all expensive and cost loads in taxpayer's money. But a kitchen knife - well, they only cost a few quid from Tesco, and after you've dug it into his neck and gloated as he bled to death, you can wash it up and pop it back in the drawer to slice your bread in the mornings. How incredibly economically efficient. Because clearly that's all that life's about.
Oh, and you'll have to leave his body out to rot and be eaten by carrion. After all, digging graves will involve employing people, which will cost precious taxpayer's money.
So, extrapolate your notion ad nauseum, and you end up either with a state that exterminates people without trial at massive cost to the taxpayer (in which case I am perfectly right to liken your sentiments to those of the SS), or a state full of the rotting corpses of those who had the temerity not to be an economic success.
Be very, very careful about the implications of the statements you seem to be making in jest, because I suspect that even you can't handle the truth of them. And if you can handle all that, I refer you back to my SS comment.
George29 said:
Twincam16 said:
Seriously though - can no-one see that it's the environment these people live in and the lack of opportunities presented to them on a daily basis that's at fault?
George29 has entered this discussion as a seriously wealthy professional who has decided that someone who is for whatever reason disadvantaged, less intelligent and less skilled than him is unworthy of life.
I read some pretty strong opinions on this site, but that's in another league of nastiness, frankly.
Stop blaming it on the lack of oppertunities. If he had any sense about him he would move to where oppertunities are. But no, he decides to do fGeorge29 has entered this discussion as a seriously wealthy professional who has decided that someone who is for whatever reason disadvantaged, less intelligent and less skilled than him is unworthy of life.
I read some pretty strong opinions on this site, but that's in another league of nastiness, frankly.
k all, and blame everyone else. I know how he can start creating an oppertunity. Start going to school and stop spending all day standing around on the streets with your mates comminting crimes. Also, I am in no way seriously wealthy. I've earnt a bit of money yes, but only through hard work, and all done by myself.
Twincam16 said:
You own an Aston Martin DB9. As far as reality is concerned, you are seriously wealthy.
Oh so one car means I'm seriously wealthy? FYI, the car has finance on it, and don't judge people by their assets. One of the richest guys I know (worth <£200m easily) drives around in an old VW Transporter. I'll ignore all the utter bulls
t in your previous comment too, as you are reading far too deep into what I said, in fact, going as far as putting words in my mouth, which I disapprove of. Oh and since you said how oppertunities only go to people who go to uni... I never went to uni when I left school. I did an apprenticeship, worked for a bit post apprenticeship, started my own consultancy firm, put myself through uni part time whilst working 50+ hour weeks. So if you deem me as 'seriously wealthy' I think I fking deserve it more than the utter scrotes who were on this program.George29 said:
Twincam16 said:
You own an Aston Martin DB9. As far as reality is concerned, you are seriously wealthy.
Oh so one car means I'm seriously wealthy? FYI, the car has finance on it, and don't judge people by their assets. One of the richest guys I know (worth <£200m easily) drives around in an old VW Transporter. I'll ignore all the utter bulls
t in your previous comment too, as you are reading far too deep into what I said, in fact, going as far as putting words in my mouth, which I disapprove of. Oh and since you said how oppertunities only go to people who go to uni... I never went to uni when I left school. I did an apprenticeship, worked for a bit post apprenticeship, started my own consultancy firm, put myself through uni part time whilst working 50+ hour weeks. So if you deem me as 'seriously wealthy' I think I fking deserve it more than the utter scrotes who were on this program.If you disapprove of the gory details of capital punishment, don't advocate it.
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