Breaking Bad (including spoilers)
Discussion
PaulFontaine said:
It seemed like the last couple episodes had a lot happen to propel the story line forward. Just when I had pretty much dismissed Hank he comes into his own. Notice also how he has made huge progress in his ability to walk as he sunk his teeth into this. I was still unclear as to what exactly the cartel wanted form GUS. I also had no idea to use your UK word how "minted" both GUS and Walt were. I also like the shift of trying to test and shift Jessie's loyalty
I thought the way Hank explained his theory was really logical (and well acted).My take on the wants of the Cartel was they want it all. The operation. (Or a very big chunk of it).
Or it wouldn't surprise me if they wanted his chemist - Walt - and that through another twist, he was actually protecting him.
Well the issue is that GUS had a distribution network set up and wanted to expand into cartel territory from whom he couldn't before as he was obtaining his supply from them They do not need the lab or walt they have their own supply but they want their old distribution network back and things to return to the former arrangement. Gus is able to expand and endanger their territory as he has his own superior and cheaper supply pipeline via walt. Gus is playing with fire as he is taking on the cartel which has made it clear that they are not willing to negotiate. So a war is about to ensue between Gus and the cartel. I know I did a poor job of explaining it so apologies.
It also appears that there is some other unknown backers of GUS when Hank explained the financing of the fast food chain as well.
On an unrelated note it was great to see the challenger smoking tires and all and it pained me deeply to see it get blown to bits. Poor innocent brand new 17 miles on the odometer challenger.
It also appears that there is some other unknown backers of GUS when Hank explained the financing of the fast food chain as well.
On an unrelated note it was great to see the challenger smoking tires and all and it pained me deeply to see it get blown to bits. Poor innocent brand new 17 miles on the odometer challenger.
Walt is certainly embracing his "gangster" persona with the destruction of the car. A bit like lighting cigars with C notes.
There is no way that revolver had live ammo in it. Mike is too careful for that and he really didn't need Jessie armed with all that muscle already there.
Is Walt lucky enough to have Hank/DEA take down Gus while he stays clean and gets away with it all?. I can see it ending that way.
There is no way that revolver had live ammo in it. Mike is too careful for that and he really didn't need Jessie armed with all that muscle already there.
Is Walt lucky enough to have Hank/DEA take down Gus while he stays clean and gets away with it all?. I can see it ending that way.
The gun was most certainly loaded, Jessie noted as much.
Thing is it wasn't about the gun it was about the mindgames. They sense conflict inside Jessie, he doesn't think anything through at the moment hence agreeing to kill Gus easily and then deciding against it. It is the giving of the gu andm the stopping of the robbery that has made Jessie the more focussed character he has become.
Jessie will become loyal to Gus over Walt which is what Gus wants, who knows what will happen then.
Thing is it wasn't about the gun it was about the mindgames. They sense conflict inside Jessie, he doesn't think anything through at the moment hence agreeing to kill Gus easily and then deciding against it. It is the giving of the gu andm the stopping of the robbery that has made Jessie the more focussed character he has become.
Jessie will become loyal to Gus over Walt which is what Gus wants, who knows what will happen then.
freecar said:
The gun was most certainly loaded, Jessie noted as much.
Thing is it wasn't about the gun it was about the mindgames. They sense conflict inside Jessie, he doesn't think anything through at the moment hence agreeing to kill Gus easily and then deciding against it. It is the giving of the gu andm the stopping of the robbery that has made Jessie the more focussed character he has become.
Jessie will become loyal to Gus over Walt which is what Gus wants, who knows what will happen then.
Loaded, but not with live ammo. Absolutely no reason to take such a risk with someone that killed one of their own just a few weeks ago. They had what?, 15 hired guns there, what more could a sketchy drug addict with questionable motives offer them?. Mike and Gus didn't get where they were by taking chances or wondering "what if".Thing is it wasn't about the gun it was about the mindgames. They sense conflict inside Jessie, he doesn't think anything through at the moment hence agreeing to kill Gus easily and then deciding against it. It is the giving of the gu andm the stopping of the robbery that has made Jessie the more focussed character he has become.
Jessie will become loyal to Gus over Walt which is what Gus wants, who knows what will happen then.
Totally agree on what they are doing with Jessie, they don't need to put themselves in danger to accomplish this.
Looking back at the money collections he went on Mike with. Do you really think an operation that size with a boss as meticulous as Gus handles his money that way?. How much do you figure they collected at each of those 6 drops?. Even with $100 bills (unlikely), $50-60K?. I find it hard to believe Gus is only making $300K a week and with his distribution network, no need to bury and hide money like that. That was all a setup.
They wanted to test Jessie, but give him the "keys" to the till and a gun with a clear shot at the boss (Mike couldn't have stopped him)?. No way they would have exposed themselves to that much risk if he were to fail the test.
No way are you kidding? walt gets like 250K every two weeks he said the GUS could be listed on the NASDAQ if it was legal he is making MILLIONS a week! He offered the cartel a payment of $50 MILLION. I dont think you grasp the size and depth of the setup. The lab is a multimillion dollar affair alone. The reason for the drops is that that wasy the money and drugs are never in the same place at the same time and hence there can be no dealing charge that can stick. By letting Jessie into his world and money secrets he is gaining his trust. That gun was totally loaded with LIVE ammo. Maybe watch the last two or three episode sagain
That is exactly the point I was making though. The cash pickups Mike and Jessie made were nowhere near the operation's weekly take. It was a small percentage (probably planted there by Mike himself) that they let Jessie in on to build his trust/confidence. If you wanted to test the honesty of a new house cleaner, would you leave your Bank card and PIN number out show or just a few notes?.
Still not buying that the gun he gave Jessie was loaded with anything other than blanks or dud rounds. Absolutely no reason to give him live ammo to test him. If he pulled the trigger on Gus or Mike, he fails the test and they put him down. They don't need actual bullets flying at their backs to carry that one out.
I didn't see anything in the previous episodes to suggest Mike or Gus were that reckless.
Still not buying that the gun he gave Jessie was loaded with anything other than blanks or dud rounds. Absolutely no reason to give him live ammo to test him. If he pulled the trigger on Gus or Mike, he fails the test and they put him down. They don't need actual bullets flying at their backs to carry that one out.
I didn't see anything in the previous episodes to suggest Mike or Gus were that reckless.
You're completely right about the dead drops being a big fake, there is no way that all the money that Gus makes is collected like that, the whole thing was an act. There were loads of drops so that Jessie would get bored and pay less attention, that way when the scare comes it is all the more effective.
I'm pretty sure the gun was loaded, it may have had a stiff safety but keeping it loaded was an important part of driving a wedge between Walt and Jessie. The presence of the other heavies would have prevented Jessie doing Gus any harm and the presence of the bullets is important for the next step.
Gus (via Mike) has demonstrated to Jessie that he trusts him again, now it is Jessie's turn which will take the form of betraying Walt's confidence. Walt will tell Jessie something and Jessie will go straight to Gus with it, solidifying his position as a replacement for Victor.
I'm pretty sure the gun was loaded, it may have had a stiff safety but keeping it loaded was an important part of driving a wedge between Walt and Jessie. The presence of the other heavies would have prevented Jessie doing Gus any harm and the presence of the bullets is important for the next step.
Gus (via Mike) has demonstrated to Jessie that he trusts him again, now it is Jessie's turn which will take the form of betraying Walt's confidence. Walt will tell Jessie something and Jessie will go straight to Gus with it, solidifying his position as a replacement for Victor.
Watch the scene again. Mike hands Jessie the gun (never answers when asked if it is loaded, if that means anything) then turns his back and walks away attention focused on listening to his earpiece while Jessie still has the gun in his hand. Pop 2 off in Mike's back. Gus is busy looking out the window and doesn't carry either, but even if he was on this occasion, Jessie already has the drop on him and unloads the other 4 at/in Gus. we saw him getting in all that practice on the video game at the beginning. 
I think we will have to agree to disagree on the gun thing. If Jessie wanted to, he could have shot them when it was just the three of them in that caravan thing. All the heavies were outside and while they most certainly wouldn't let Jessie leave alive, the damage would have already been done. I refuse to believe Mike would take a chance on that when he already knows how flaky Jessie is.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on the gun thing. If Jessie wanted to, he could have shot them when it was just the three of them in that caravan thing. All the heavies were outside and while they most certainly wouldn't let Jessie leave alive, the damage would have already been done. I refuse to believe Mike would take a chance on that when he already knows how flaky Jessie is.
goldblum said:
Shows Gus is making mistakes - I wouldn't trust Jessie with a pair of scissors.
Gus is the sort to learn from his mistakes though. Trusting Jessie and Walt has let him down too many times already and resulted in their killing of three of his men and resulted in him having to kill Victor himself. The only reason Jessie is alive is to keep Walt cooking and the only reason Walt is alive is to keep the money coming in. They have both exhausted what little trust he had in them a long time ago.There is a reason why there is now CCTV in the lab and the new boy has been double checking the production weights. Jessie's jaunts with Mike are also to keep him busy, out of trouble and under Mike's watchful eye. We all know what trouble Jessie gets up to with all that free time after he clocks out at the lab.
Redtwin, watch the scene. he can see it's loaded, it's a revolver, you can see the bullets from the side.
Now watch Mike's reaction, he says "if you're going to be here you're going to have a gun" and he doesn't even give the question of rounds a second thought just snorts derisively.
Then he goes on to say that he doesn't want to see Jessie holding that gun unless he is, this makes the whole blow everyone away angle void, it's not as simple as you make out to just pop a couple in Mike's back. Firstly I would imagine he is wearing a vest (they don't all look huge under clothes) as is Gus, so only a headshot can stop them, which isn't easy to get (despite how many times I've done it on call of duty!) and he'll only get one shot before the heavies start unloading at him, Jessie, no vest, a dozen heavies, I think you know the outcome!
Also, Jessie has shown no suicidal tendencies. I'd not try to out shoot a dozen armed guys with six bullets and an unfamiliar gun. It can't be done! Mike and Gus are giving Jessie reasons to side with them, his loyalty is coming and soon will be greater than his allegiance to Walt.
Now watch Mike's reaction, he says "if you're going to be here you're going to have a gun" and he doesn't even give the question of rounds a second thought just snorts derisively.
Then he goes on to say that he doesn't want to see Jessie holding that gun unless he is, this makes the whole blow everyone away angle void, it's not as simple as you make out to just pop a couple in Mike's back. Firstly I would imagine he is wearing a vest (they don't all look huge under clothes) as is Gus, so only a headshot can stop them, which isn't easy to get (despite how many times I've done it on call of duty!) and he'll only get one shot before the heavies start unloading at him, Jessie, no vest, a dozen heavies, I think you know the outcome!
Also, Jessie has shown no suicidal tendencies. I'd not try to out shoot a dozen armed guys with six bullets and an unfamiliar gun. It can't be done! Mike and Gus are giving Jessie reasons to side with them, his loyalty is coming and soon will be greater than his allegiance to Walt.
Yes, I know about revolvers I have fired enough of them, but being able to see the cartridges (the bullet is only the projectile bit 
) does not mean it is a live round or that the revolver is capable of firing them.
If the firing pin was removed or the cartridge had no primer and/or powder in it the only damage Jessie could do with it would be to throw it at them. Without careful inspection, and even then some people may not be able to tell, they wouldn't know that the revolver was nothing more than a paperweight.
The test is still very effective without putting themselves at risk.
Even with a vest, if Mike got two in the back he would be going down long enough for Jessie to have a go at Gus.
I think this may never be resolved.
) does not mean it is a live round or that the revolver is capable of firing them.If the firing pin was removed or the cartridge had no primer and/or powder in it the only damage Jessie could do with it would be to throw it at them. Without careful inspection, and even then some people may not be able to tell, they wouldn't know that the revolver was nothing more than a paperweight.
The test is still very effective without putting themselves at risk.
Even with a vest, if Mike got two in the back he would be going down long enough for Jessie to have a go at Gus.
I think this may never be resolved.
JamieBeeston said:
redtwin said:
I think this may never be resolved.
I wouldn't be so sure, gun didn't disappear, its in the glove box, and a point was made of that, so I'm sure we'll see it again Redtwin, you've not addressed the suicide aspect of this.
How would Jessie have escaped with his life had he started shooting around all those heavies?
Does Jessie want to die to spare Walt?
no offense redtwin I think you either smoke what is known as "crack" in the usa or are young or generally clueless. There are a lot of subltites that are wasted on you and certainly i hope you are either a student or some one who needs a low impact job. I am certainly willing to entertain and debate with other forum members but they operate in a framework of relative intelligence.
Also there is a little "lost in translation" I can guarantee that you have never traveled leave alone to the USA. Slow down watch the episodes again if it is too much for you to handle wait until the DVD with commentary comes out.
that being said every one else here even if they have counter points usually has an intelligently constructed point. You lack this vital element in your posts it is like trying to explain the world to a spoiled 12 year old girl.
I don't dislike you as a person but you are fairly clueless/
Also there is a little "lost in translation" I can guarantee that you have never traveled leave alone to the USA. Slow down watch the episodes again if it is too much for you to handle wait until the DVD with commentary comes out.
that being said every one else here even if they have counter points usually has an intelligently constructed point. You lack this vital element in your posts it is like trying to explain the world to a spoiled 12 year old girl.
I don't dislike you as a person but you are fairly clueless/
You are taking this way too seriously, but I can accept your stance and I will refrain from any further debates with your good self. I trust you can show me the same courtesy and ignore any further posts I make in this thread. 
That is about as intelligent as I am going to get...for a crackhead anyway.
Now, where was I?
That is about as intelligent as I am going to get...for a crackhead anyway.
Now, where was I?
JamieBeeston said:
Redtwin, you've not addressed the suicide aspect of this.
Jessie has been in self-destruct mode for a while, he appears to be little more than a Gale flashback away from ending it all. Why else would he even entertain killing probably the most powerful and dangerous man he has ever met?. It wouldn't take much from his own demons to push him over the edge and into a suicidal course of action.Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff