The Official Top Gear Series 17 Thread....With Spoilers..
Discussion
F i F said:
The other thing I thought was perhaps they made economic sense if you had to go into London Congestion zone everyday, thus save the £10 or £9 per day as you'd set up autopay to get the discount.
Ignoring the fact that if I had to do this even I would still probably use pubic transport, assuming 45 working weeks then 9*5*45=2025. The figures STILL don't stack up.
As I pointed out on the other thread, for the amount the Leaf will depreciate in 3 years, you can buy a brand new top of the spec Nissan Note Tekna 1.6 auto, pay list price, drive it for 3 years, give it away, yes! GIVE it away, and it would still have cost you less capital than the depreciation on the Leaf.
But you're forgetting one thing. One of them has FREE ROAD TAX!!!!Ignoring the fact that if I had to do this even I would still probably use pubic transport, assuming 45 working weeks then 9*5*45=2025. The figures STILL don't stack up.
As I pointed out on the other thread, for the amount the Leaf will depreciate in 3 years, you can buy a brand new top of the spec Nissan Note Tekna 1.6 auto, pay list price, drive it for 3 years, give it away, yes! GIVE it away, and it would still have cost you less capital than the depreciation on the Leaf.
Free tax indeed, they get it back out of you several times over by virtue of the increased VAT on a significantly more expensive car.
Red Firecracker said:
MGJohn said:
RichB said:
That's sad news.Hmmm ... Gerry Built ... How about that Mr. Clarkson ... ( best written and read with a Black Country Accent ...
) If Swindon, Crewe and Doncaster were alive today ...... they'd die.... 
Tru-Brit skills... lost forever ...
.
What has to be remembered is this is a prototype , fully welded, boiler, not riveted in the traditional way. It seems the German manufacturers have been just as eager as the A1 Trust to get to the bottom of the issues and very quick to fix them. The issue is that a welded boiler has different operating practices than a traditional riveted boiler so it has been a steep learning curve. The known practices are from the service days of the original locomotives, when they didn't cool down very often. Things are a touch different with this locomotive.
As a teenager working near Kings Cross in the early 1960s, A1s and all the rest ( including the Blue Deltic prototype ) were a frequent sight for this life-long transport enthusiast. Plus, when no one was looking, I'd 'bunk' the nearby Kings X Engine sheds and see lines of these magnificent locomotives quietly hissing before their next duty call. Doubt if they ever really cooled down.
Unforgettable stuff... gorn forever.
.
Pesty said:
They have an ebay shop selling stickers and those coloured band things.
When you buy you have the option of donating some more to the charity.
That's all well and good for what can be done individually on a personal level by us all. I was thinking more along the lines of as a collective, as a forum. Petrolheads need some positive PR, instead of the current PR that we're all evil planet killers that speed everywhere. Having the forum involved heavily (and publicised heavily) in something like this would be a good thing. Having the whole car sponsored by the site for example. Or the support vehicles?When you buy you have the option of donating some more to the charity.
MGJohn said:
As a teenager working near Kings Cross in the early 1960s, A1s and all the rest ( including the Blue Deltic prototype ) were a frequent sight for this life-long transport enthusiast. Plus, when no one was looking, I'd 'bunk' the nearby Kings X Engine sheds and see lines of these magnificent locomotives quietly hissing before their next duty call. Doubt if they ever really cooled down.
Unforgettable stuff... gorn forever.
I grew up near the Great Western main line and as some will know they were the first region to experiment with diesel-hydraulic and to scrap steam. Nevertheless because my father worked for the Underground I had (almost) free rail travel I used to love going to Nine Elmes and Stratford sheds. The Southern retained steam well into the 60s so I would spend hours there walking among the Merchant Navy and Battle of Britain locos. Stratford was wonderful because we discovered the sheds where all the engines earmarked for the National Rail Museum were stored; Princess Elizabeth, Nigel Gresley, Britannia etc. all in one shed - most surreal. It was like being inside a life sized Hornby train set building! Unforgettable stuff... gorn forever.
RichB said:
MGJohn said:
As a teenager working near Kings Cross in the early 1960s, A1s and all the rest ( including the Blue Deltic prototype ) were a frequent sight for this life-long transport enthusiast. Plus, when no one was looking, I'd 'bunk' the nearby Kings X Engine sheds and see lines of these magnificent locomotives quietly hissing before their next duty call. Doubt if they ever really cooled down.
Unforgettable stuff... gorn forever.
I grew up near the Great Western main line and as some will know they were the first region to experiment with diesel-hydraulic and to scrap steam. Nevertheless because my father worked for the Underground I had (almost) free rail travel I used to love going to Nine Elmes and Stratford sheds. The Southern retained steam well into the 60s so I would spend hours there walking among the Merchant Navy and Battle of Britain locos. Stratford was wonderful because we discovered the sheds where all the engines earmarked for the National Rail Museum were stored; Princess Elizabeth, Nigel Gresley, Britannia etc. all in one shed - most surreal. It was like being inside a life sized Hornby train set building! Unforgettable stuff... gorn forever.
Some years later, 1971-72ish, my job involved much travel around the much greener and more pleasant UK then. I stopped in a lay by not far from Monmouth on the A40 to have a drink of tea from my flask ~ that was not the main reason. Parked on a low loader there was Jubilee Class "Galatea", formerly based at Bristol Midland sheds back in the 50-60s. I was pulled by that very locomotive when I lived in Gloucester for a time then. no doubt it had recently been collectedfrom Dai Laughing's Scrapyard at Barry.
Even further back, when aged about twelve, I travelled to Swindon with my usual 6 pence ( old pence) entrance fee for a Railway Works tour. Unfortunately, a very disappointed me because the tour was cancelled that day so I 'bunked' the whole sheebang including finding my way somehow along the under track tunnels eventually ending up in a large dusty shed in a remote part of the huge complex. Not a soul about. Known as the stock shed, some of the old treasures like City of Truro, Lode Star ( or was it North Star ?), a "Duke" and other fabulous old stuff covered in dust were all there. Had the place all to myself and despite not being able to afford a camera back then, those images of the locomotives highlighted in shafts of dust laden sunlight are so vivid, they'll last to my final days.
Troglodyte youngsters today locked away with their electronic gizmos in their bedrooms, don't know they're born....
Did I tell you about the time I was pushed up the Lickey Incline by this purpose built "Big Bertha" jobbie?
http://www.photobydjnorton.com/BigBertha.html
As certain aged F1 commentator would have it... PHANTASTIC!
Oh, please yourselves...
Edited by MGJohn on Thursday 4th August 16:41
MGJohn said:
... On my Motor Cycle in S.London one time ( 1960s) there was a big traffic hold up. Annoyed at being delayed, I threaded my way to the front to see Preserved/renovated Castle Class ex-Swindon Works on a huge low-loader being delivered there.
Possibly Caerphilly Castle being delivered to Clapham where the National Railway Museum was first housed or was it the Science Museum in Kensington?MGJohn said:
...Known as the stock shed, some of the old treasures like City of Truro, Lode Star ( or was it North Star ?), a "Duke" and other fabulous old stuff covered in dust were all there.
Probably Lode Star (North Star was a recreation of the Broad Gauge loco built much more recently by a team at Didcot). Lode Star wound up at the GWR museum in Swindon housed in an old building on the old railways workers estate south side of the station. I remember going out there by train from Ealing to see this. It's been moved recently and the building is a theatre or something trendy. Not sure where North star is now. City of Truro was on the rails not so long ago.Sorry not sure what this has got to do with Top Gear
Edited by RichB on Thursday 4th August 18:55
Zwoelf said:
Talksteer said:
In which case you would plug it into your regular socket, to cheat any system would be so easy that most people would do it and it would be very difficult to prosecute anyone for it.
Like they do with red diesel? I'm sure they could come up with ways - i.e. unique sockets and plugs with transponders in that only means one socket will charge from a particular "home" terminal, but also be universally compatible with other sockets - that could be charged at a different rate maybe? What incentive would there be for car manufacturers to make it so that their car can could only be charged on expensive electricity? It puts me in mind of DVD players which the manufacturers contractually had to put region locks on them but which most could be switched off by a code available off the internet.
What would stop me ripping out my UK socket and fitting the socket from none UK car? Sure you could put some code in it but it would be fairly easy to crack and once one person did it the method would be spread over the internet.
Fundamentally an electric car is just an electrical load on the grid, electricity comes into your house and there is very little you can do to control what people use it for. Any attempt to tax electricity for automotive use would be a ruinously expensive tax to collect, easy to evade (your power company and your car manufacturer would be actively incentivised to help you/turn a blind eyes much like ISPs and illegal downloading), it would annoy everybody and it would put people off doing something the government want you to do anyway.
So you save c£2k congestion charge which is a gross salary increase of £3.4k over running non EV in London.
These will in the main be comp cars too so say it's £25k there is zero co car tax... Fantastic. If you had a diesel and 40% tax rate and say 18% BIK co2 rate you would have tp pay £1,800 pa net or £3,000 gross.
Therefore anyone in London who has this as a co car would save a gross £6,400 per year or just shy of £4k net.
So your being effectively paid to run the car £533 gross or £320 net PCM and as London is stop start driving what does it matter? Plus £2 to refuel it.....
Use the £32net PCM to buy something else you would rather job done.
NEXT
These will in the main be comp cars too so say it's £25k there is zero co car tax... Fantastic. If you had a diesel and 40% tax rate and say 18% BIK co2 rate you would have tp pay £1,800 pa net or £3,000 gross.
Therefore anyone in London who has this as a co car would save a gross £6,400 per year or just shy of £4k net.
So your being effectively paid to run the car £533 gross or £320 net PCM and as London is stop start driving what does it matter? Plus £2 to refuel it.....
Use the £32net PCM to buy something else you would rather job done.
NEXT
simonrockman said:
BIK on the Leaf is zero. So if you are a 40% taxpayer it changes the economics considerably.
The less scrupulous might be inclined to register a limited company to own the car and be its registered keeper. If an overseas relative is the sole director, then it could be very difficult for any speeding points to find their way to the driver's licence too...simonrockman said:
BIK on the Leaf is zero. So if you are a 40% taxpayer it changes the economics considerably.
The point I have been trying to make, the Leaf is priced in the UK for somebody who is an early adopter company car user. They have limited supply so don't need to sell to a market beyond that.The price in the US is £22k before tax and incentives.
Talksteer said:
simonrockman said:
BIK on the Leaf is zero. So if you are a 40% taxpayer it changes the economics considerably.
The point I have been trying to make, the Leaf is priced in the UK for somebody who is an early adopter company car user. They have limited supply so don't need to sell to a market beyond that.The price in the US is £22k before tax and incentives.
odyssey2200 said:
The range is totally unsuitable for a company car user.
That very much depends if the car is given as a "perk" (which seems daft nowadays), or as a tool to do the job.If it's just a perk used for commuting, it'd be fine for a lot of people and the company could talk about all sorts of green b
ks. (Which they should probably get a Dr to look at)Munter said:
odyssey2200 said:
The range is totally unsuitable for a company car user.
That very much depends if the car is given as a "perk" (which seems daft nowadays), or as a tool to do the job.If it's just a perk used for commuting, it'd be fine for a lot of people and the company could talk about all sorts of green b
ks. (Which they should probably get a Dr to look at)"When you pitch up at a factory, notice if they have built an arty farty statue outside, and if so then watch out, they've got a problem with their priorities."
And I must say it has stood me in good stead over quite a few years and hasn't been proven wrong yet.
Therefore now I'm of an age where I can be the old wordly wise fart in the corner I'd modify that advice to...
Don't think I need to spell out where this is going, do I?
F i F said:
Bit of sage advice I once got from a grizzled old timer.
"When you pitch up at a factory, notice if they have built an arty farty statue outside, and if so then watch out, they've got a problem with their priorities."
And I must say it has stood me in good stead over quite a few years and hasn't been proven wrong yet.
Therefore now I'm of an age where I can be the old wordly wise fart in the corner I'd modify that advice to...
Don't think I need to spell out where this is going, do I?
I remember being told something similar many moons ago...."When you pitch up at a factory, notice if they have built an arty farty statue outside, and if so then watch out, they've got a problem with their priorities."
And I must say it has stood me in good stead over quite a few years and hasn't been proven wrong yet.
Therefore now I'm of an age where I can be the old wordly wise fart in the corner I'd modify that advice to...
Don't think I need to spell out where this is going, do I?
every time I see a company with some pathetic windmill out front it makes me smile...
Scuffers said:
F i F said:
Bit of sage advice I once got from a grizzled old timer.
"When you pitch up at a factory, notice if they have built an arty farty statue outside, and if so then watch out, they've got a problem with their priorities."
And I must say it has stood me in good stead over quite a few years and hasn't been proven wrong yet.
Therefore now I'm of an age where I can be the old wordly wise fart in the corner I'd modify that advice to...
Don't think I need to spell out where this is going, do I?
I remember being told something similar many moons ago...."When you pitch up at a factory, notice if they have built an arty farty statue outside, and if so then watch out, they've got a problem with their priorities."
And I must say it has stood me in good stead over quite a few years and hasn't been proven wrong yet.
Therefore now I'm of an age where I can be the old wordly wise fart in the corner I'd modify that advice to...
Don't think I need to spell out where this is going, do I?
every time I see a company with some pathetic windmill out front it makes me smile...
Useless company......
(I know it's not really an "arty farty" statue)
matsmith said:
Megaflow said:
The Nissan might be worth nothing faster than you think. There is a pre-reg on Autotrader, 2011 11 plate, 120 miles, £24,499...
To be fair, the new price of £30,990 is before the tax payers hand over a £5000 subsidy to the proud new owner. So the real price of a new Leaf is £25,990.Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff