Mr Bates vs The Post Office

[540TORQUES]

Maxdecel said:

Belinda Cortes-Martin - Programme Director for the Post Office’s ‘Project Sparrow' to Second sight "...You're fishing ........"
Yes, fishing for the truth ! Anyone think these excecs. thought they could run roughshod over anyone they appoint ?
https://www.itv.com/news/2024-04-04/nadhim-zahawi-...

It's just complete and utter contempt of the people affected and of any form of justice, from the top down through to the bottom of the prosecution process, the people working for the PO against the SPO owners and workers have shown themselves to be scum. That includes the lawyers and barristers employed during the court cases and during the process many of the SPO took of pleading guilty of the lesser charge to try and stay out of prison. They knew what they were doing was atrocious, but did it anyway.

[heebeegeetee]

It's certainly more clear why the Post Office dropped Second Sight... but still far from clear, after these exchanges, why the Post Office continued to spend huge sums prosecuting SPMs.

[Unreal]

heebeegeetee said:

It's certainly more clear why the Post Office dropped Second Sight... but still far from clear, after these exchanges, why the Post Office continued to spend huge sums prosecuting SPMs.

Have you seen the quality of their employees? A bigger bunch of incompetents with slopey shoulders in senior positions would be hard to find.

[Sebring440]

Watching and listening to the latest revelations on ITV News this evening, calls for corporate manslaughter charges, etc, I see no way out for the Post Office now. It should be disbanded. Maybe taken over and rebranded as Royal Mail? No one trusts the Post Office anymore, which probably is not helping the current Sub Postmasters.

[vaud]

Sebring440 said:

Watching and listening to the latest revelations on ITV News this evening, calls for corporate manslaughter charges, etc, I see no way out for the Post Office now. It should be disbanded. Maybe taken over and rebranded as Royal Mail? No one trusts the Post Office anymore, which probably is not helping the current Sub Postmasters.

Needs a Royal commission on its future...

[kevinon]

RichB said:

540TORQUES said:

The deeply religious are some of the nastiest and cruelest people i have encountered in my life.

Hear, hear...

Yes, first hand experience of this too

[blueg33]

kevinon said:

RichB said:

540TORQUES said:

The deeply religious are some of the nastiest and cruelest people i have encountered in my life.

Hear, hear...

Yes, first hand experience of this too

Totally agree. They then hide behind religion as a “get out of jail free” card

[jameswills]

540TORQUES said:

It's just complete and utter contempt of the people affected and of any form of justice, from the top down through to the bottom of the prosecution process, the people working for the PO against the SPO owners and workers have shown themselves to be scum. That includes the lawyers and barristers employed during the court cases and during the process many of the SPO took of pleading guilty of the lesser charge to try and stay out of prison. They knew what they were doing was atrocious, but did it anyway.

It is amazing that it is still a surprise to us. Anyone remember Jill Dando? No that’s conveniently forgotten, a blatant professional hit for whatever reason, but fitted some patsy up who served near 10 years then cleared and released with no fanfare or recompense and then the case completely forgotten. 25 years now. The whole system is corrupt to the core, those behind it all know they are protected and they can therefore do what they like.

[Prolex-UK]

skwdenyer said:

Prolex-UK said:

vaud said:

blueg33 said:

Indeed. There was also a TV licensing case last year where a woman with learning difficulties was prosecuted. The council were responsible for managing her financial affairs and forgot to pay. The council then told the court she was guilty.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/tv-licence-c...

Disgraceful.

All to save money i suspect

Where do the majority of PHers *think* their tax breaks come from? We’ve allowed spending on basic stuff like local services, justice and so on to be slashed and burned for years now. The economic mismanagement of the nation is matched by the mismanagement of this case by Royal Mail.

Every time you vote for a politician based on promises of tax cuts, remember where the axe has fallen already.

Not you specifically, Prolex

No offence taken

My point was cost cutting in post office was to increase their profits.

[siremoon]

Unreal said:

Have you seen the quality of their employees? A bigger bunch of incompetents with slopey shoulders in senior positions would be hard to find.

I disagree that such incompetents are hard to find. In my working life they were everywhere. I worked for 4 large companies in my time and they all had plenty. One very well known company was full of them and the cluelessness, total ineptitude and buck passing was beyond belief. Nothing malicious like this PO case but just weapons grade uselessness. Despite this the company made huge profits and we were well paid but it was a standing joke in the rank and file that the profits would be orders of magnitude larger if the management were even only slightly competent.

[Randy Winkman]

Sebring440 said:

Watching and listening to the latest revelations on ITV News this evening, calls for corporate manslaughter charges, etc, I see no way out for the Post Office now. It should be disbanded. Maybe taken over and rebranded as Royal Mail? No one trusts the Post Office anymore, which probably is not helping the current Sub Postmasters.

Sort of - I'd argue that people dont trust senior bods that are more interested in themselves than in the truth. But I'd say that applies everywhere. I dont think the public have lost faith in the Post Offices themselves and the people that work in them. So I'm not sure the brand itself necessarily has a problem. The guy in the post office I went into near St James's Pk tube in London SW1 was really helpful to me yesterday sticking a ripped fiver together then swapping it for a new one. I'm all for Post Offices and their staff.

There's a topic for another thread, modern bank notes that more or less break in two.

[FiF]

Randy Winkman said:

Sebring440 said:

Watching and listening to the latest revelations on ITV News this evening, calls for corporate manslaughter charges, etc, I see no way out for the Post Office now. It should be disbanded. Maybe taken over and rebranded as Royal Mail? No one trusts the Post Office anymore, which probably is not helping the current Sub Postmasters.

Sort of - I'd argue that people dont trust senior bods that are more interested in themselves than in the truth. But I'd say that applies everywhere. I dont think the public have lost faith in the Post Offices themselves and the people that work in them. So I'm not sure the brand itself necessarily has a problem. The guy in the post office I went into near St James's Pk tube in London SW1 was really helpful to me yesterday sticking a ripped fiver together then swapping it for a new one. I'm all for Post Offices and their staff.

There's a topic for another thread, modern bank notes that more or less break in two.

That's fair comment. On the rare occasions I get up on my hind legs to complain to or about, say, shoddy service or products, it's always made clear that it's understood the person to whom the complaint is addressed is not responsible for the issue but that the hope is that they can bring it to the attention of the relevant area.

[bitchstewie]

A bit more fron Neidle.

https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1775903101297610783

[FiF]

bhstewie said:

A bit more fron Neidle.

https://x.com/DanNeidle/status/1775903101297610783

'Kinell, though it just confirms what we were all thinking / suspecting.

[blueg33]

Just reading an article about a sub postmaster who committed suicide and his widow had to sell everything to raise the £350k shortfall.

No compensation because they structured their business as a limited company as they had several shops.

[FiF]

Also reading about a 5th subpostmaster who committed suicide after being accused of a 179k shortfall. This is a case apparently previously not discussed.

Widow denied compensation.

Nadhim Zahawi calling Post Office to be investigated for corporate manslaughter.

Nadhim Zahawi said:

I think [Ms Vennells] lied to the select committee because clearly they were not forthcoming. And now with this explosive recording ITV News has obtained, I think there’s enough circumstantial evidence for a thorough police investigation

I don’t think it’s good enough that we keep falling back on ‘well let the [Post Office] inquiry do its work’, this is much more serious.

There needs to be an investigation into corporate manslaughter and individuals at the Post Office.

[jameswills]

Ah Zahawi that “founder” of the bastion of truth and justice that is YouGov out of absolutely nowhere and has made millions from tax dodging, and then tried to introduce vaccine passports.

Lovely guy, man of the people, this will certainly have legs I’m sure.

[540TORQUES]

jameswills said:

Ah Zahawi that “founder” of the bastion of truth and justice that is YouGov out of absolutely nowhere and has made millions from tax dodging, and then tried to introduce vaccine passports.

Lovely guy, man of the people, this will certainly have legs I’m sure.

It doesn't matter what his own record is, does it, on this subject the point he makes is correct.

[monkfish1]

540TORQUES said:

jameswills said:

Ah Zahawi that “founder” of the bastion of truth and justice that is YouGov out of absolutely nowhere and has made millions from tax dodging, and then tried to introduce vaccine passports.

Lovely guy, man of the people, this will certainly have legs I’m sure.

It doesn't matter what his own record is, does it, on this subject the point he makes is correct.

He maybe correct, but you would have to ask yourself why he said this. Genuine concern about the case, or an opportunity to be on the front foot and look good, claim sucess if something happens, thus enhancing his own postion.

You may think its the former, but given that he is hardly an upstanding honest member of parliament, i think i know what the real motivator is.

[540TORQUES]

monkfish1 said:

He maybe correct, but you would have to ask yourself why he said this. Genuine concern about the case, or an opportunity to be on the front foot and look good, claim sucess if something happens, thus enhancing his own postion.

You may think its the former, but given that he is hardly an upstanding honest member of parliament, i think i know what the real motivator is.

His motivation is irrelevant. What matters is that justice is done for the SPM. If it takes an MP like this one to keep the pressure on, so be it.