Discussion
bolidemichael said:
TV series? Games? Part 3? Where are you guys getting all this info and where has it been confirmed?
I'd recommend the following sites. Although obviously there are othershttps://denofgeek.com
https://www.cbr.com/
https://www.polygon.com
https://www.ign.com/uk
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Tuesday 19th March 14:32
My son and I were a little puzzled by somethings come to mention it. In the duel between Paul and Feyd, Paul refers to him as ‘cousin’, but we thought that Feyd would be his uncle, since he’s Baron Harkonnen’s nephew, but Paul is the son of BH’s daughter i.e. grandson.
Therefore, Feyd’s mother/father would be BH’s sibling…
Therefore, Feyd’s mother/father would be BH’s sibling…
bolidemichael said:
My son and I were a little puzzled by somethings come to mention it. In the duel between Paul and Feyd, Paul refers to him as ‘cousin’, but we thought that Feyd would be his uncle, since he’s Baron Harkonnen’s nephew, but Paul is the son of BH’s daughter i.e. grandson.
Therefore, Feyd’s mother/father would be BH’s sibling…
Yes, if Feyd is Baron Harkonnen's Nephew then Paul's mother and Feyd would be cousins, which would make Paul and Feyd "First cousins once removed" if I remember my genealogy correctly. Once removed meaning a difference of one generation.Therefore, Feyd’s mother/father would be BH’s sibling…
So, Paul calling him "cousin" was in the right ballpark-ish.
Went to see it a second time, this time in Imax, and it was well worth the revisit. Time still flew by despite me having watching it a few weeks ago, so great work pacing the movie by Villeneuve.
Probably liked it more on the rewatch - the changes from the book don't seem to be so jarring and the only criticism I would still have is the way they turned Chani into a stroppy 'teen girl' scorned at the end.
Definitely, one of the greatest all-time scifi epics. It's actually beyond regular scifi, it's accessible enough to appeal to anyone who isn't a fan of the genre. Should be up for the 'big' Oscars but probably won't be.
Probably liked it more on the rewatch - the changes from the book don't seem to be so jarring and the only criticism I would still have is the way they turned Chani into a stroppy 'teen girl' scorned at the end.
Definitely, one of the greatest all-time scifi epics. It's actually beyond regular scifi, it's accessible enough to appeal to anyone who isn't a fan of the genre. Should be up for the 'big' Oscars but probably won't be.
Interesting article on Den of Geek about some of the changes that Denis Villeneuve made for his films, especially the changes he made with regards to Jessica and Chani, and the rationale.
https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/how-dune-2s-bigge...
I'm actually coming round to the idea of Chani the Sceptic as portrayed in Dune: Part 2, compared to her more passive accepting nature of the books and, indeed, the 1984 film.
https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/how-dune-2s-bigge...
I'm actually coming round to the idea of Chani the Sceptic as portrayed in Dune: Part 2, compared to her more passive accepting nature of the books and, indeed, the 1984 film.
When the Emperor removed House Harkonnen from Arrakis and sends House Atreides their instead, Duke Leto Atreides predicts this is a trap. He's right in that House Harkonnen attack them, but was the Emperor behind this trap? Did he want House Atreides destroyed, and if so why did he have to send them to Arrakis for that to happen?
The Gauge said:
When the Emperor removed House Harkonnen from Arrakis and sends House Atreides their instead, Duke Leto Atreides predicts this is a trap. He's right in that House Harkonnen attack them, but was the Emperor behind this trap? Did he want House Atreides destroyed, and if so why did he have to send them to Arrakis for that to happen?
Yes, it was the Emperor's plan. And he sent them to Arrakis and colluded with the Harkonnens to attack them, for Plausible Deniability.House Atreides had grown powerful in the Landsraad (the council of the Great Houses) and Duke Leito Atreides was extremely popular. A direct attack by the Emperor on House Atreides would have caused the other members of the Landsraad to take action against him, but if House Atreides were to be taken out by House Haarkonnen then it would simply be Kanly (formal vendetta / blood feud between two houses).
Leto Atreides knew that it was a trap, but a) he couldn't ignore a direct order from the Emperor and b) there was immense wealth and power to be gained if he could avoid the trap.
edit: For all its faults, the 1984 Lynch film goes into the above in detail (arguably too much detail) but Villeneuve chooses to explain it less.
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Saturday 23 March 23:07
Clockwork Cupcake said:
Yes, it was the Emperor's plan. And he sent them to Arrakis and colluded with the Harkonnens to attack them, for Plausible Deniability.
House Atreides had grown powerful in the Landsraad (the council of the Great Houses) and Duke Leito Atreides was extremely popular. A direct attack by the Emperor on House Atreides would have caused the other members of the Landsraad to take action against him, but if House Atreides were to be taken out by House Haarkonnen then it would simply be Kanly (formal vendetta / blood feud between two houses).
Leto Atreides knew that it was a trap, but a) he couldn't ignore a direct order from the Emperor and b) there was immense wealth and power to be gained if he could avoid the trap.
edit: For all its faults, the 1984 Lynch film goes into the above in detail (arguably too much detail) but Villeneuve chooses to explain it less.
That makes sense now, thanks for the explanation,House Atreides had grown powerful in the Landsraad (the council of the Great Houses) and Duke Leito Atreides was extremely popular. A direct attack by the Emperor on House Atreides would have caused the other members of the Landsraad to take action against him, but if House Atreides were to be taken out by House Haarkonnen then it would simply be Kanly (formal vendetta / blood feud between two houses).
Leto Atreides knew that it was a trap, but a) he couldn't ignore a direct order from the Emperor and b) there was immense wealth and power to be gained if he could avoid the trap.
edit: For all its faults, the 1984 Lynch film goes into the above in detail (arguably too much detail) but Villeneuve chooses to explain it less.
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Saturday 23 March 23:07
Went to a late showing this evening (2am finish!) and thoroughly enjoyed it. Disappointed that I didn’t see pt1 at the cinema.
Haven’t read the books but read the link on the previous page re: villeneuve’s rationale for plot changes and can see why they made for a better film.
- sand worms though. Given the means of getting onto one, how do you get off again without death or serious injury? What is fremen for ‘woah worm’?
- where did Chani get the ornithopter from when she rocked up in the south?
- can someone please explain what gurney was doing with the spice harvesting crew? That was my only point of confusion and may have missed something. I get it wasn’t one of the Harkonnen crews but that’s it.
Haven’t read the books but read the link on the previous page re: villeneuve’s rationale for plot changes and can see why they made for a better film.
- sand worms though. Given the means of getting onto one, how do you get off again without death or serious injury? What is fremen for ‘woah worm’?
- where did Chani get the ornithopter from when she rocked up in the south?
- can someone please explain what gurney was doing with the spice harvesting crew? That was my only point of confusion and may have missed something. I get it wasn’t one of the Harkonnen crews but that’s it.
Finally got round to going to the cinema to see pt2. Whilst I agree with the cinematic masterpiece, for me, it was just so slow. I lost count the amount of times I looked at my watch I'm the first hour. On top of that the plot was far too complicated with regards to Paul being 'the one' and the I lost track of whether it wad a good thing, bad thing or whether anyone cared.
I wouldn't see it again and thought it was £12 wasted.
I wouldn't see it again and thought it was £12 wasted.
shirt said:
- where did Chani get the ornithopter from when she rocked up in the south?
Not sure, but that section of the film confused me…with some moving south, the worm piss drinking, the attack on the north, I got confused as to where everyone was and where they’d been.
I assume Paul initially refused to go south, then changed his mind, so did he go south and drink the worm piss? Why did Chani travel there separately?
Also when Paul was sent out to survive alone in the desert, he seemed to just reappear straight away as if he’d not gone anywhere
shirt said:
Went to a late showing this evening (2am finish!) and thoroughly enjoyed it. Disappointed that I didn’t see pt1 at the cinema.
Haven’t read the books but read the link on the previous page re: villeneuve’s rationale for plot changes and can see why they made for a better film.
- where did Chani get the ornithopter from when she rocked up in the south?
- can someone please explain what gurney was doing with the spice harvesting crew? That was my only point of confusion and may have missed something. I get it wasn’t one of the Harkonnen crews but that’s it.
- Chani was already in the south, just not with him, she didn't travel that far to get to the temple. Everyone was planning to go south but Paul didn't want to because he knew what would happen if he did (the jihad and death a plenty, and him being made the Lisan al Gaib). Chani was totally on board with him when he explained this reasoning as she didn't want him taken over by the prophecy everyone was pushing. Haven’t read the books but read the link on the previous page re: villeneuve’s rationale for plot changes and can see why they made for a better film.
- where did Chani get the ornithopter from when she rocked up in the south?
- can someone please explain what gurney was doing with the spice harvesting crew? That was my only point of confusion and may have missed something. I get it wasn’t one of the Harkonnen crews but that’s it.
Then Paul walked off into the desert. He is concerned because he did not forsee the attacks by Feyd and could not forsee the route to the path which would lead to their survival. He had a vision/chat with the friend-he-would-have-made-had-he-not-killed-him-in-Dune1 and remembered a conversation he would have had, which convinced him that the only way he could see the future well enough for everyone to survive was to "stand on the tallest dune". He had to drink the water of life and become the Kwisatz Haderach to see the future and the past if he wanted to gaurantee their survival. The exact opposite of what he'd just expressed to Chani.
- Guerney was with a privateer/pirate spice mining crew.
They're not mentioned much in the film but the Guild which controls space travel are super-powerful (basically Bene Geserit / supra-Emperor powerful) since noone can travel without them and they NEED spice to operate as seeing the future is essential in interstellar travel. The Emperor gives the official licence to harvest it to the great houses, but the guild will buy from anyone. Their only concern is that the SPICE MUST FLOW. Which is why Paul stopping spice production brings the whole galaxy to Arrakis.
This is also why the Fremen remain mostly hidden with such large numbers in the south. They've been bribing the guild with spice to prevent their true nature being known to the great houses. The guild only care about getting spice and aren't about to let a single house or emperor try & leverage a monopoly position.
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