No more cash for scrap - good thing?
Poll: No more cash for scrap - good thing?
Total Members Polled: 238
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16738000
Cash payments for scrap metal are to be outlawed and fines "significantly increased" to tackle the growing problem of metal theft.
Will this work? Will it just move the cash business underground? Scrap being large, heavy and not easily moved around, is this likely to be a real or sizeable problem?
Cash payments for scrap metal are to be outlawed and fines "significantly increased" to tackle the growing problem of metal theft.
Will this work? Will it just move the cash business underground? Scrap being large, heavy and not easily moved around, is this likely to be a real or sizeable problem?
Last time I read through a 'debate' on this topic here there seemed to be a significant minority of posters who seemed to think that the right to sell scrap metal from dubious sources for cash with no documentation was some sort of 'V for Vendetta' last-bastion-of-civil-rights type thing. Me though, I'd say this is a good thing.
Certainly - it actually seems a pretty easily workable if not perfect solution to a serious problem.
I just can't see how it would help though,
steels a tonne of steel from a railway and turns up at the weigh-in station. They take his address (3 caravan on the left) and give him a cheque and the throw it on the pile / or it's melted down straight away.
Police are asked to investigate the theft, visit the 5-6 local scrap dealers, I suppose they'll ask for the names of the people who gave them anything from 0.8 tonnes to 1.2 tonnes of steel in the last few days, and get handed a dozen names from each of the scrappy's, ask to see the material - no chance it's in a huge pile or melted now.
So they've got 50-60 names on a list, do they go and interview every one of them? Not a chance.
The only way I can see it having any use is if they suspect a metal thief, and then trawl around the local dealers to see if this suspect has weighed anything in recently, but chances are the thief would have given a friends name anyway.
I just can't see how it would help though,
steels a tonne of steel from a railway and turns up at the weigh-in station. They take his address (3 caravan on the left) and give him a cheque and the throw it on the pile / or it's melted down straight away. Police are asked to investigate the theft, visit the 5-6 local scrap dealers, I suppose they'll ask for the names of the people who gave them anything from 0.8 tonnes to 1.2 tonnes of steel in the last few days, and get handed a dozen names from each of the scrappy's, ask to see the material - no chance it's in a huge pile or melted now.
So they've got 50-60 names on a list, do they go and interview every one of them? Not a chance.
The only way I can see it having any use is if they suspect a metal thief, and then trawl around the local dealers to see if this suspect has weighed anything in recently, but chances are the thief would have given a friends name anyway.
jagracer said:
I voted against it. If I run some scrap into a scrap yard how are they going to pay me if not with cash? Would you take a cheque off a scrap dealer and I'm sure they wont be doing BACS transfers.
So you're essentially saying that because you judge a scrap yard to be what, the bluest of the blue collar work places they wouldnt have the ability to use some of the most basic and widespread payment methods in the world?jagracer said:
I voted against it. If I run some scrap into a scrap yard how are they going to pay me if not with cash? Would you take a cheque off a scrap dealer and I'm sure they wont be doing BACS transfers.
I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting a scrap metal business to be run like a business, and therefore offering BACS (and other electronic transfers) as a method of payment.
i run a actually own a scrap yard and i think its a good thing that cash is being withdrawn as a term of payment, cheques and BAC's are already freely available at most recycling sites, and most scrap yards don't really want to be paying out cash and would much rather a more transparent for of payment method used
As usual the Govt have done the one thing that will look good, get the headlines and make no difference to the underlying problem. If anything it will give a boost to the unlicensed illegal operators - the guys who are buying stolen cabling, war memorials etc then 'laundering' the metal (i.e. cutting it into unrecognisable bits and mixing it with ordinary scrap) and selling it on. Plenty of business opportunities here for those of a criminal disposition. Got scrap, want cash in hand? You know where to go from now on, and it isn't going to be your EU-compliant licensed scrap merchant. These guys will pay £50 a ton cash, get £100 a ton by bank transfer a week later. Nice little earner I'd say.
Legitimate scrap metal dealers already ask for ID, take vehicle details etc. That isn't where all the stolen stuff is going (at least in its raw state). You'd have to be monumentally stupid to try and sell a load of war memorial plaques to someone like Viridor or EMR.
The only thing that will fix this problem is for the police to come down hard and heavy on the 'unofficial' scrap merchants. But that costs money, takes time and good intelligence, so it gets filed under 'too difficult'.
Legitimate scrap metal dealers already ask for ID, take vehicle details etc. That isn't where all the stolen stuff is going (at least in its raw state). You'd have to be monumentally stupid to try and sell a load of war memorial plaques to someone like Viridor or EMR.
The only thing that will fix this problem is for the police to come down hard and heavy on the 'unofficial' scrap merchants. But that costs money, takes time and good intelligence, so it gets filed under 'too difficult'.
CommanderJameson said:
I don't think there's anything wrong with expecting a scrap metal business to be run like a business, and therefore offering BACS (and other electronic transfers) as a method of payment.
I've been to scrap yards which accept tiny amounts of scrap at a time. BACS or cheque isn't practical for those transactions. This is not an attack on criminals, it's an attack on the cash economy. Expect cash transactions to be further criminalised with the eventual aim of fazing it out altogether.
edited to add: HMRC's opinion on cash.
Edited by supersingle on Friday 27th January 22:54
No from me. Don't think the banning of cash will make any difference.
Plumbers, roofers, builders - they all want cash for their scrap.
It's a perk, a tax dodge - and if their local scrappie won't pay 'em in untraceable untaxable cash they'll search out someone who will. A plumber chucking 4 or 5 combi boilers in a week will make an easy £500 a week in scrap cylinders and pipework - they are not going to give that up lightly.
Better ID checks and record keeping would be more use IMHO - passport, driving licence, photo IDs.
All they ask you for at the moment in my experience is your reg number and surname - not good enough.
Plumbers, roofers, builders - they all want cash for their scrap.
It's a perk, a tax dodge - and if their local scrappie won't pay 'em in untraceable untaxable cash they'll search out someone who will. A plumber chucking 4 or 5 combi boilers in a week will make an easy £500 a week in scrap cylinders and pipework - they are not going to give that up lightly.
Better ID checks and record keeping would be more use IMHO - passport, driving licence, photo IDs.
All they ask you for at the moment in my experience is your reg number and surname - not good enough.
MartyPubes said:
So...the down side is that it might be harder to plumbers to pull a tax dodge and it will exclude people who have £5 of scrap for some reason? Nightmare.
Yes, it'll make it impossible for poor people to collect and sell aluminium cans while making bugger all difference to organised criminals engaging in metal theft. Well done government, peerages all round.
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