Chemotherapy - cancer? You're fit.
Discussion
Couple of prog's on telly last night, under cover Doctor gets trained ready to conduct the Governments ESA benefits tests on people currently in receipt of that benefit.
A twenty minute largely irrelevant series of practical tests intended to weed out 'lead swingers'. Apparently a one armed person is fit to hold down a checkout assistants job.
A person awaiting a major heart operation is declared fit for work. He died of a heart attack within two weeks of being assessed as fit for work.
For every five people who are declared fit for work and they appeal, two appeals are successful.
Those seriously ill and deemed unfit for work are hounded every two or three weeks to come in for another assessment.
A guy with a serious chest complaint deemed fit, within two weeks he was in hospital coughing up blood.
The list is endless, thousands of people are being deemed fit for work when clearly they are not. A chemotherapy cancer suffering patient is deemed fit for work, unless the chemo is administered intravenously.
The 'examination' is far to prescriptive and not fit for purpose being the judgement of the two broadcasters. Of course the Government denies that anything is wrong with the system and wants to offer people the opportunity to find fulfilling work.
Knowing that most posters in here are hard nosed Tories I expect any responses to be of the negative type and the fact 'we are broke'. But whatever ones politics, this examination process needs to be reviewed again urgently. Far to prescriptive with even some assessors suggesting 'its not right'.
A twenty minute largely irrelevant series of practical tests intended to weed out 'lead swingers'. Apparently a one armed person is fit to hold down a checkout assistants job.
A person awaiting a major heart operation is declared fit for work. He died of a heart attack within two weeks of being assessed as fit for work.
For every five people who are declared fit for work and they appeal, two appeals are successful.
Those seriously ill and deemed unfit for work are hounded every two or three weeks to come in for another assessment.
A guy with a serious chest complaint deemed fit, within two weeks he was in hospital coughing up blood.
The list is endless, thousands of people are being deemed fit for work when clearly they are not. A chemotherapy cancer suffering patient is deemed fit for work, unless the chemo is administered intravenously.
The 'examination' is far to prescriptive and not fit for purpose being the judgement of the two broadcasters. Of course the Government denies that anything is wrong with the system and wants to offer people the opportunity to find fulfilling work.
Knowing that most posters in here are hard nosed Tories I expect any responses to be of the negative type and the fact 'we are broke'. But whatever ones politics, this examination process needs to be reviewed again urgently. Far to prescriptive with even some assessors suggesting 'its not right'.
Hard nose torries, the ignorant and school children mostly....
Didn't see the programme, however I guess the problem is that any system like benefits, the NHS, education or any publicly funded is open to abuse and the real people will always slip through the net...
People on here are a CLASSIC example of this and will usually follow the patten of...
We hate labour
We are hard working and will pay for everything we need
We never get ill or loose our jobs
Screw anyone who scrounges
Oh s
t lost me job
Can I have some advice please
All you can do is try and be decent, I guess the trick is not to let the masses cloud your judgement!
And don't post on pistonheads.... :-)
Didn't see the programme, however I guess the problem is that any system like benefits, the NHS, education or any publicly funded is open to abuse and the real people will always slip through the net...
People on here are a CLASSIC example of this and will usually follow the patten of...
We hate labour
We are hard working and will pay for everything we need
We never get ill or loose our jobs
Screw anyone who scrounges
Oh s
t lost me jobCan I have some advice please
All you can do is try and be decent, I guess the trick is not to let the masses cloud your judgement!
And don't post on pistonheads.... :-)
dudleybloke said:
but if your an alcoholic you get full sick pay without question.
same as the druggies.
these should be forced to work before the people with actual illnesses.
(i know addiction is technically an illness but in my eyes its about self control).
Really sick pay you say..........same as the druggies.
these should be forced to work before the people with actual illnesses.
(i know addiction is technically an illness but in my eyes its about self control).
Edited by dundarach on Tuesday 31st July 19:46
I saw it - and thought 2 of those featured could hold down some kind of employment.
The older bloke was very obviously playing up when going to see the doctor - the doctor told him his chest was clear - and he replied 'it always is when I see a doctor'. Highly unlikely, I'd have thought - and his half hearted attempt at the flow test was laughable. He didn't even try to get a realistic result from it.
The young girl (can't recall what she had) could easily hold down a job such as cashier (or similar) - she was largely able bodied but just couldn't take on something which would require heavy physical work. But cashier, office admin etc, would have been fine for her.
I can't recall any details about the guy with a heart condition - but a heart attack can strike anyone at any time without warning, so you can't really read too much into that. It could easily have happened post operation, too.
The older bloke was very obviously playing up when going to see the doctor - the doctor told him his chest was clear - and he replied 'it always is when I see a doctor'. Highly unlikely, I'd have thought - and his half hearted attempt at the flow test was laughable. He didn't even try to get a realistic result from it.
The young girl (can't recall what she had) could easily hold down a job such as cashier (or similar) - she was largely able bodied but just couldn't take on something which would require heavy physical work. But cashier, office admin etc, would have been fine for her.
I can't recall any details about the guy with a heart condition - but a heart attack can strike anyone at any time without warning, so you can't really read too much into that. It could easily have happened post operation, too.
dundarach said:
dudleybloke said:
but if your an alcoholic you get full sick pay without question.
same as the druggies.
these should be forced to work before the people with actual illnesses.
(i know addiction is technically an illness but in my eyes its about self control).
Really sick pay you say..........same as the druggies.
these should be forced to work before the people with actual illnesses.
(i know addiction is technically an illness but in my eyes its about self control).
Edited by dundarach on Tuesday 31st July 19:46
crankedup said:
Couple of prog's on telly last night, under cover Doctor gets trained ready to conduct the Governments ESA benefits tests on people currently in receipt of that benefit.
A twenty minute largely irrelevant series of practical tests intended to weed out 'lead swingers'. Apparently a one armed person is fit to hold down a checkout assistants job.
A person awaiting a major heart operation is declared fit for work. He died of a heart attack within two weeks of being assessed as fit for work.
For every five people who are declared fit for work and they appeal, two appeals are successful.
Those seriously ill and deemed unfit for work are hounded every two or three weeks to come in for another assessment.
A guy with a serious chest complaint deemed fit, within two weeks he was in hospital coughing up blood.
The list is endless, thousands of people are being deemed fit for work when clearly they are not. A chemotherapy cancer suffering patient is deemed fit for work, unless the chemo is administered intravenously.
The 'examination' is far to prescriptive and not fit for purpose being the judgement of the two broadcasters. Of course the Government denies that anything is wrong with the system and wants to offer people the opportunity to find fulfilling work.
Knowing that most posters in here are hard nosed Tories I expect any responses to be of the negative type and the fact 'we are broke'. But whatever ones politics, this examination process needs to be reviewed again urgently. Far to prescriptive with even some assessors suggesting 'its not right'.
So many people are taking the piss that genuine cases suffer because of it. That doesnt mean that everyone that can cough on cue should be signed off for life.A twenty minute largely irrelevant series of practical tests intended to weed out 'lead swingers'. Apparently a one armed person is fit to hold down a checkout assistants job.
A person awaiting a major heart operation is declared fit for work. He died of a heart attack within two weeks of being assessed as fit for work.
For every five people who are declared fit for work and they appeal, two appeals are successful.
Those seriously ill and deemed unfit for work are hounded every two or three weeks to come in for another assessment.
A guy with a serious chest complaint deemed fit, within two weeks he was in hospital coughing up blood.
The list is endless, thousands of people are being deemed fit for work when clearly they are not. A chemotherapy cancer suffering patient is deemed fit for work, unless the chemo is administered intravenously.
The 'examination' is far to prescriptive and not fit for purpose being the judgement of the two broadcasters. Of course the Government denies that anything is wrong with the system and wants to offer people the opportunity to find fulfilling work.
Knowing that most posters in here are hard nosed Tories I expect any responses to be of the negative type and the fact 'we are broke'. But whatever ones politics, this examination process needs to be reviewed again urgently. Far to prescriptive with even some assessors suggesting 'its not right'.
The system is already over generous.
Still at least we pay out 10billion a year to foreign countries in aid.
It is sad that in the main those who are genuine will get told they are "fit" and those who are faking it will pass the test. As it often has been.
And if you want to know how it works, I recently ran an appeal against a refusal wherein the Tribunal expressly stated that they preferred the evidence of the Appellant over that of the Doctor (who I had shown had lied about matters). The only reason an appeal was lodged was because I did it, the party in question basically couldn't cope with it - frankly something I think they rely on.....
It is sad that in the main those who are genuine will get told they are "fit" and those who are faking it will pass the test. As it often has been.
And if you want to know how it works, I recently ran an appeal against a refusal wherein the Tribunal expressly stated that they preferred the evidence of the Appellant over that of the Doctor (who I had shown had lied about matters). The only reason an appeal was lodged was because I did it, the party in question basically couldn't cope with it - frankly something I think they rely on.....
The way it works is that if you don't fall into a particular set of circumstances (IV Chemo, terminal illness, in hospital, radiotherapy, and people who are so mentally ill that they would put someone at risk if they were working) you take a work capability assessment.
This takes the form of a series of questions in the following categories.
• Mobilising unaided
• Standing and sitting
• Reaching
• Picking up and moving or transferring by the use of the upper body and arms
• Manual dexterity
• Making self understood
• Understanding communication
• Navigation and maintaining safety
• Continence
• Consciousness during waking moments.
• Learning tasks
• Awareness of everyday hazards
• Initiating and completing personal action
• Coping with change
• Getting about
• Coping with social engagement
• Appropriateness of behaviour with other people.
As an example, the "Mobilising Unaided" asks how far you can walk. Depending on your answer you'll be described as one of the following:
This takes the form of a series of questions in the following categories.
• Mobilising unaided
• Standing and sitting
• Reaching
• Picking up and moving or transferring by the use of the upper body and arms
• Manual dexterity
• Making self understood
• Understanding communication
• Navigation and maintaining safety
• Continence
• Consciousness during waking moments.
• Learning tasks
• Awareness of everyday hazards
• Initiating and completing personal action
• Coping with change
• Getting about
• Coping with social engagement
• Appropriateness of behaviour with other people.
As an example, the "Mobilising Unaided" asks how far you can walk. Depending on your answer you'll be described as one of the following:
DWP said:
(a) Cannot either:
(i) mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in
order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion;
or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because
of significant discomfort or exhaustion. (15 Points)
(b) Cannot mount or descend two steps unaided by another person even with
the support of a handrail. (9 Points)
(c) Cannot either:
(i) mobilise more than 100 metres on level ground without stopping in
order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion;
or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 100 metres within a reasonable timescale
because of significant discomfort or exhaustion. (9 Points)
(d) Cannot either:
(i) mobilise more than 200 metres on level ground without stopping in
order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion;
or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 200 metres within a reasonable timescale
because of significant discomfort or exhaustion.(6 Points)
(e) None of the above apply (0 Points)
If you are intending to cheat the benefit system, you will have read up on this to make sure you get the necessary points. However if you are honest and haven't come into contact with the benefits system before you may try and downplay how ill you are, which runs the risk of declaring you fit for work when you may not be.(i) mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in
order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion;
or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because
of significant discomfort or exhaustion. (15 Points)
(b) Cannot mount or descend two steps unaided by another person even with
the support of a handrail. (9 Points)
(c) Cannot either:
(i) mobilise more than 100 metres on level ground without stopping in
order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion;
or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 100 metres within a reasonable timescale
because of significant discomfort or exhaustion. (9 Points)
(d) Cannot either:
(i) mobilise more than 200 metres on level ground without stopping in
order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion;
or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 200 metres within a reasonable timescale
because of significant discomfort or exhaustion.(6 Points)
(e) None of the above apply (0 Points)
In my pub days I used to serve a chap who only had his arms down to the elbows (although he could grip items such as change and pens with a sort of 'pincer' on the end of his elbow), he worked in a call centre using a headset and didn't let his disability get in the way. He obviously had to alter the workplace to be able to work there, but he didn't want to sit on his arse feeling sorry for himself.
I understand that some disabilities / ilnesses make work impossible, but I think that a lot of people are too quick to give up and live off the state rather than continuing on with life and making an effort.
I understand that some disabilities / ilnesses make work impossible, but I think that a lot of people are too quick to give up and live off the state rather than continuing on with life and making an effort.
I was in charge of a group of disabled people working in a police station. One was paralysed from the waist down and had the option of either getting around by wheelchair or onto crutches. He preferred the latter although there was a certain risk attached as it was difficult for him to negotiate polished floors.
Others had back problems which required special seating arrangements, another had knee problems which were inoperable.
The problem they had at a time of low unemployment was that nobody would employ them. The only reason they got the job with us was that they were subsidised, both in required equipment and infrastructure as well as in hourly rate, under Remploy.
With high unemployment and the reduction in subsidy for employing disabled people what the new regulations mean in fact is that disabled people merely get what other unemployed people get. There is no consideration for their disability.
So it's a double whammy for them. Luckily I found 'my' disabled staff had a certain sense of humour. I think other disabled people will need it.
When checked before the current privatisation and targets for those checking disabled people, the fraud rate was considered fairly low. I have a great deal of sympathy for disabled people and from what I know they would rejoice as much as anyone else if the fraudsters were kicked off. However there can be little doubt that privatisation of the checking system has led to seriously disabled people losing their disability payments.
Or, to put it another way, the company dealing is doing exactly what the government wants them to.
Others had back problems which required special seating arrangements, another had knee problems which were inoperable.
The problem they had at a time of low unemployment was that nobody would employ them. The only reason they got the job with us was that they were subsidised, both in required equipment and infrastructure as well as in hourly rate, under Remploy.
With high unemployment and the reduction in subsidy for employing disabled people what the new regulations mean in fact is that disabled people merely get what other unemployed people get. There is no consideration for their disability.
So it's a double whammy for them. Luckily I found 'my' disabled staff had a certain sense of humour. I think other disabled people will need it.
When checked before the current privatisation and targets for those checking disabled people, the fraud rate was considered fairly low. I have a great deal of sympathy for disabled people and from what I know they would rejoice as much as anyone else if the fraudsters were kicked off. However there can be little doubt that privatisation of the checking system has led to seriously disabled people losing their disability payments.
Or, to put it another way, the company dealing is doing exactly what the government wants them to.
crankedup said:
Apparently a one armed person is fit to hold down a checkout assistants job.
When I was on YTS I worked with a guy that lost an argument with a sugar beet harvester. It chopped his hand off somewhere between his wrist and his elbow. This would have happened within a few weeks of me being born. He carried on working for at least 20 years. He got burgled about 10 or 15 years ago, they left his house bare, even stealing the sheets of his bed. This just about caused him and his wife to have a nervous breakdown each. He moved and I lost contact with him.There is a bloke around here that had a bad bike crash and lost his whole right arm. It must be very hard driving and old tractor with only one arm, but he does it. Being on a checkout would be a piece of piss.
johnfm said:
Pesty said:
johnfm said:
Boo hoo.
Why don't you dip into your savings and pay these people to sit at home if it so upsetting.
seriously?Why don't you dip into your savings and pay these people to sit at home if it so upsetting.
Welfare is a safety net, not a hammock.
If you are fit to do certain jobs, why shouldn't you at least have to try?
You know how karma works - you'll find yourself one day waiting for a heart transplant being told you should go back to work.
Just because a few are too lazy to work, doesn't mean those who are worthy of our financial care and support, should be penalised too!
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